Compression on Hip Hop Beats

[Tha Wiizard]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

I figured you might bring up the "compression is inherent to tape/vinyl/speaker excursion/whatever" argument, but I also sorta figured we were all on the same page that the thread is about applying compression. Guess I was wrong.

Anyway...



Explain this, please...

Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Digital audio has a much, MUCH larger dynamic range than human hearing can handle, so I'm not sure what you're getting at or where you're getting it from.

You should be telling yourself that. Compression happens at the sample level as well as the mixing level. There isn't anything recorded that doesn't have it on it simple as that.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard

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You should be telling yourself that. Compression happens at the sample level as well as the mixing level. There isn't anything recorded that doesn't have it on it simple as that.

the topic was clearly added compression not natural compression that happens during conversion. stop being a smart ass and treating people with professional experience like there idiots- nobody is treating you that way even if you deserve it, people are just keeping there reserve and there smirks to themselves

[Tha Wiizard]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

the topic was clearly added compression not natural compression that happens during conversion. stop being a smart ass and treating people with professional experience like there idiots- nobody is treating you that way even if you deserve it, people are just keeping there reserve and there smirks to themselves

You sure about that?

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard

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You should be telling yourself that. Compression happens at the sample level as well as the mixing level. There isn't anything recorded that doesn't have it on it simple as that.

OK, sure. So explain how.


Digital audio has a dynamic range of about 144dB (24-bits * 6db/bit). The threshold of pain in humans is about 135dB SPL. Assuming a human can withstand an additional 6dB on top of that (a doubling of power! Ouch!), you're still 3dB shy of the dynamic range of your standard digital audio system. So again, I ask you: please explain how digital audio is an inherently compressed format.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard

You sure about that?

Uh...yeah, pretty sure:

Originally Posted by syra

Hey guys...when you mix hip-hop stuff what do you find yourselves doing often with the drums? For example 90% of the times when I mix rock there will be a parallel comp (...C2) running underneath the main drum buss...

I've noticed that this technique doesn't work as good with electronic beats. How do you go about compressing that s**t then?...

peace

[Tha Wiizard]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

OK, sure. So explain how.


Digital audio has a dynamic range of about 144dB (24-bits * 6db/bit). The threshold of pain in humans is about 135dB SPL. Assuming a human can withstand an additional 6dB on top of that (a doubling of power! Ouch!), you're still 3dB shy of the dynamic range of your standard digital audio system. So again, I ask you: please explain how digital audio is an inherently compressed format.

Digital and analog audio is compressed when it is sampled and recorded. The converters compress therefore compression is ocurring and the signal is being affected. Audio can't be recorded without converters. Thanks and goodnight.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard

You sure about that?

absolutely... particularly the people you are bashing on this forum specifically. You are just making a fool of yourself here- keep going its entertaining to have a troll around. They dont last long round here they usually get kicked off.

[Tha Wiizard]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

absolutely... particularly the people you are bashing on this forum specifically. You are just making a fool of yourself here- keep going its entertaining to have a troll around. They dont last long round here they usually get kicked off.

Seems like you're the only one mad. Ive read many of your posts over the past months and you sound very uniformative, very biased, very mr. know it all, and super arrogant. The thing is, you think that what you say is golden and when you're proven wrong you can't handle it. That ain't my fault buddy. Your opinion is only one of billions. Bgrotto included. You guys ask like you run the forum and you don't, sorry to inform you.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard

Seems like you're the only one mad. Ive read many of your posts over the past months and you sound very uniformative, very biased, very mr. know it all, and super arrogant. The thing is, you think that what you say is golden and when you're proven wrong you can't handle it. That ain't my fault buddy. Your opinion is only one of billions. Bgrotto included. You guys ask like you run the forum and you don't, sorry to inform you.

this isnt a popularity contest lol. Your treating this forum like a room full of high school girls... anyway im done with ya it was fun while it lasted. I doubt you will last much longer on this forum without getting kicked out.

[Tha Wiizard]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

this isnt a popularity contest lol. Your treating this forum like a room full of high school girls... anyway im done with ya it was fun while it lasted. I doubt you will last much longer on this forum without getting kicked out.

We know it ain't popularity contest although it seems you want it to be. And why, may I ask, you keep begging Tony to ban me for no reason. If you don't like me or comments, be a man about it and say that. Don't include Tony in something that doesn't even involve or offend him. You must must be half a man or a quarter of a boy.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard

Digital and analog audio is compressed when it is sampled and recorded. The converters compress therefore compression is ocurring and the signal is being affected. Audio can't be recorded without converters. Thanks and goodnight.

So, what you're saying is, digital audio convertors cause compression, therefore digital audio convertors cause compression...?

You're gonna hafta do better than that...

Again, please EXPLAIN your stance.

[Tha Wiizard]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

So, what you're saying is, digital audio convertors cause compression, therefore digital audio convertors cause compression...?

You're gonna hafta do better than that...

Again, please EXPLAIN your stance.

Goodnight brutha

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard

Goodnight brutha

That's what I figured.

Buh-bye.

[sinicalmicmusic]

i can handle more than 150db without pain. compression is tight b. ill slap dat on my pro toolz files and BAM, the best $10 an hour studio you will ever need. i hope this answered the op's question. is anybody listening????

[Keyflo]

Originally Posted by syra

Hey guys...when you mix hip-hop stuff what do you find yourselves doing often with the drums? For example 90% of the times when I mix rock there will be a parallel comp (...C2) running underneath the main drum buss...

I've noticed that this technique doesn't work as good with electronic beats. How do you go about compressing that s**t then?...

peace

I never worked with Electeronica but I think there's lots of sidechaining that goes on there buddy

[syra]

Wow.

Interesting how this thread progressed. Considering I started it 4.5 years ago!

Thanks for you answers everybody. I guess since then I spent so much time in the studio that I feel much more confident about mixing beats these days

[wubbzy]

Originally Posted by DWJK

I never compress my drums indiviually.

I do mcdsp AC1 > AC2 > RComp on the drum bus, which only has the Kick and Snare coming from rewire, the rest of the drums go through the default masturing suite combinator on reason, and then into PT.

On the PT master bus, I also do AC1 > AC2 (USA-M) > RComp, all in Multi-Mono.

I attached an example


Try out some of those plugins, I think they go a long way.

Damn this pisses me off..... LOL Even though you stated what you did, I still cant get a simple drum loop to sound as good as your example.
Is there anyone in the Baltimore MD area that wouldn't mind sitting down with me to go over a mix that I am having trouble with? I will gladly pay you for your time. This is a serious offer. I use Logic 8 by the way...

[J CraQ]

Originally Posted by syra

Wow.

Interesting how this thread progressed. Considering I started it 4.5 years ago!

Thanks for you answers everybody. I guess since then I spent so much time in the studio that I feel much more confident about mixing beats these days

So Syra, what's your opinion today about compression on hip hop beats?

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Storyville

The individual drum samples are usually compressed already. More compression becomes overkill.

So when folks are compressing Hip Hop drums and/or bass, are they typically only doing so when live instruments are recorded as part of the backing track (beat)? If that's the case, I really may not need to nab stereo pairs of my 163X and 160X before taking care of other necessities, as most of the beats I deal with use samples. I love the live instrumentation on Hip Hop albums, but it seems like very few are doing it that way. Keeps money in my pocket, if further drum/bass compression will screw up the dynamics. There are still many mics to be had, haha!

[Thysta]

Can't remember the last time I compressed my drums. I only use EQ usually.

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

So when folks are compressing Hip Hop drums and/or bass, are they typically only doing so when live instruments are recorded as part of the backing track (beat)? If that's the case, I really may not need to nab stereo pairs of my 163X and 160X before taking care of other necessities, as most of the beats I deal with use samples. I love the live instrumentation on Hip Hop albums, but it seems like very few are doing it that way. Keeps money in my pocket, if further drum/bass compression will screw up the dynamics. There are still many mics to be had, haha!

This old ass thread. Yes, long before Stewart Fang, there was Tha Wiizard - a truly remarkable troll.

I'm not sure what exactly led to this conclusion. Personally, I use compression in all sort of places. The same drum sample in one song that doesn't get compressed may get compressed in a different song - it really depends on context and intent. I compress the snot out bass pretty frequently - I find it excites the overtones. And I love it when my overtones are excited.

I would say you can probably hold off on the 163 and 160Xs. Focus on making the song, the music, and the recordings great (in that order). Honestly, you can get pretty badass results using the stock digi or logic compressors.

If you're tracking vocals only - one or two mics should do ya - other expenses should be preamps, and room treatment.

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Storyville

This old ass thread. Yes, long before Stewart Fang, there was Tha Wiizard - a truly remarkable troll.

I'm not sure what exactly led to this conclusion. Personally, I use compression in all sort of places. The same drum sample in one song that doesn't get compressed may get compressed in a different song - it really depends on context and intent. I compress the snot out bass pretty frequently - I find it excites the overtones. And I love it when my overtones are excited.

I would say you can probably hold off on the 163 and 160Xs. Focus on making the song, the music, and the recordings great (in that order). Honestly, you can get pretty badass results using the stock digi or logic compressors.

If you're tracking vocals only - one or two mics should do ya - other expenses should be preamps, and room treatment.

Hahahaha!! I woke up to this, and am over here dyin! The Wiizard huh? Haha.

Okay, I hear you Story. After a lot of research, I'm thinking about grabbing an Overstayer (fet), Overstayer VCA, and a PBC-6A (opto functions, among others...varying). I look at it (through very infant engineer eyes, of course) as a solid investment, since the two Overstayers are stereo, the vca has a sidechain and eq, the PBC should be a great vocal tracking comp (with other uses) and what I've read and heard sounded awesome. Not to mention, they are all newer units, versus the ancient dbx units and such.

I completely agree with you, that the song, music and performance are most important. I have a nice amount of money coming through soon though, and really want to tie up some loose ends. I'm already planning on grabbing a Hardy M-1 (any thoughts, with a vintage U87 sound, versus others preamps?), and also have a bunch of DIY bass traps, as well as GIK panels. More treatment to come in the near future too.

I'm planning on getting more JJ Audio mics, and sticking with those (any suggestions among the JJ line would be dope and appreciated, though I'm thinking Taho/Daisy, Husky and possinly Akita, over time).

I don't have Logic or PT, but will be using Reaper. I'm sure there also some really dope plugs in there!

Basically, I'm looking to have a fairly solid tracking chain for vocals, as well as good mixing tools. Let me know what you think about all of this. As always, pardon the super long spiel.