Making hip hop beats that really sound like hip hop

[PimpboyLee]

hey Ive been trying to find the right program for years to make hip hop songs that really sound like they could be bumped in a car and stuff like that I was wondering if anyone knew of a program that would be great for hip hop

[squizz]

its not the program my friend its the producer (and sometimes the mix engineer) but for the most part any good hiphop producer can use just about any DAW and make it bump. Programs dont make the track the producers does and if your kick (provided you use good samples) and your bass are locked properly it will bump.

Its about the arrangement not the program. All the gear and programs in the world cant make a shitty arrangement good.

[PaRaNoId]

hey pimpboy, where do u live?

[Kestral]

Akai MPC-3000, Emu SP-1200. Get them, use them, love them.

[grouphome]

I have to say as Squizz says.
I have my share of MPC and an SP1200
But it all comes down to one thing.
The Song

I can make a thumping beat with my palmtop sequencer with an S5000

[manning1]

check out the free hotstepper for pc sometime.
really neat . uses real wave audio samples.
all you need are high quality samples in wave format.
just rent a bunch of high end equipment , record high quality samples. then import into hotstepper to build your arrangement.
you can use any sample of anything. not just drums.
you can save a lot of money this way. also HS lets you "tune"
samples. once your track is done in HS just exprt and import into your favorite multitrack software.
just some ideas.

[DrDeltaM]

Indeed , it's the programming/composing. Sounds itself are very important as well of course, but you can sample a lot!

Any (decent) DAW software can make you any style of music as long as YOU do the hard work! Don't expect the computer to do it all for you. Would be too easy... and no fun! tutt

Listen and learn: 'analyse' what's happening in the tracks of some of your favourite artists. And take your time for it

[Switchcraft]

As much as I agree with it being the producer and not the equipment, I find that when I do everything in the computer with a program it is NOT as hard hitting. When I use drums from an SP cut a sample up on an MP, use the pads on the MP for drums played from the sp, add back ground cuts from tables, that beat will generally, but not always, blow away a track that I spent the same amount of time producing in the box in logic. I guess it might be just a bigger variation in sound sets that I have available. its not that the computer tracks arent dope, some of my favorites peices have been just from Logic, but in general, I find alot more punch when other mediums are incorporated than just a computer program.

[DrDeltaM]

Has to do with the lower quality of sampling and convertors i guess. Modern computer systems are very 'clean' and accurate. But if you sample sounds coming from those old machines (or sample from vinyl), you got that dirty sound. Mixing analog would also help, tho is no option for me atm either.

[biggator6]

it's the old 12-bit converters.

My old Akai S950 just KILLED for drums - same converters as the MPC60.

If you're not sure - go back and listen to the drums on any old (late 80's -early 90's) industrial recordings.. they were all using S950's and the drums are HARD.
"-)

[MattiMattMatt]

One of the lessons learned from my Def Jam days was that the fancy shmancy stuff didn't neccessarily sound better than the cheapo stuff. Often, the cheapo stuff was the real deal, and produced the sounds that made you want to move your butt.

But maybe a bigger lesson was that it all boiled down to the person using the equipment. A top drum programmer I was working with, for example, even made my Alesis HR-16 sound good. His beats were just way better than mine. And to give it a satisfying cheap snappiness, I boosted the high end to 11 at the board.

[grouphome]

The S950 doesnt have the same converters as the mpc60
the 950 are a bit more raw than the 60 ones
Indeed if you got bangin samples than the track makin can be easy

[Teacher]

Experiment using Samples first, like some old school R&B and pop 70's and 80's stuff. That'll give you the basis to the song then start adding drums bass and whatever else to it. The more you do this, the more understanding you'll gain into what goes into making a beat, then it will be easier when you want to compose using synth and what not

[cdog]

MPC, MPC, MPC

[Kestral]

The lowpass filter is your friend :D

[7rojo7]

What hiphop do you listen to? is it the same as "rap" the Fat Boys stetsasonics, post run dmc- beastie boys- LLCoolJ or R+B Eddy F , Devante Swing, Jodeci, HeavyD, Father MC (more MIDI) or SD40 Brand Nubian, LONS, YBT. East Coast that came from Chung King, Platinum Island, Calliope, INS or Michael's place on Strong Island (Public Enemy)
There was a search through all the recorded material that one could find on vinyl. Horns, strings, beats, fills, snares kicks etc... then there were scratches bumps skips slides etc... Pioneers in frontiers, there are all kinds of filters panscans expanders eq, you name whatever was there was used.
The most original stuff (Brand Nubian) almost never had any "drum thickening" and was derived straight from vinyl samples, any kiks or snares were sampled directly from a "naked beat" and breaks were taken from some famous R+B, SOul or funk tune or some early disco house party favorite. Things that seemed like "mistakes" to engine ears were left as character for the artists.
Cypress Hill did their tracking, vocals and mixing in NYC (Muggs is from Philly), Tracking from an SP1200 with the timing touched up during the printing. All from vinyl, even kiks and snares and beats

You need to find what works for you and not try to copy that era
That stuff had its time, now is a different time

[Jesse Skeens]

>Tracking from an SP1200 with the timing touched up during the >printing

Can you explain this? How do you touch up the timing?

[entropy]

[chadly]

To quote someone in a session I worked. . . "smokin dope to make dope mixes. . . "

I love it entropy!

[cdog]

[Switchcraft]

I like where this is going.

[7rojo7]

You wouldn't have to do this anymore, if the sample doesn't lay in right you can varispeed (up or down depending on your needs) the tape deck while the sample is playing at the same speed and receiving the same midi trigger from the smpte striped on the tape. SP12(00)s didn't have such a sophisticated stretching and tuning facility. I can remember having to do punches sometimes because they seemed to "drift" or hiccup too.

[ozraves]

hey, you guys are moving this to the high end with the greenery you're posting.

[entropy]

shit cdog! that looks some NASTY shit! g13??

[illynoise]

Making HipHop, I've had it all, MPC, S900, 950, 1000, 3000xl, 8 bit, 12 bit 16 bit, casio sk-1. You name it. I've done it. My recommondation is for THAT sound. Two products. Ensoniq EPS 16 + and ASR-10.

The 16 + has some of the nastiest sounding low end that you would want to put in a mix. You can't get a good 808 boomin in it, but it's definately got that really cool sound. I started with a Mirage and that board is just too nasty. EPS is better, but 12 bit is well, 12 bit. Not like Akai 12 bit. Not even Emax 12 bit.

Most Hip Hop producers that are decent and really know how to layer sounds will use an MPC as their drums and Samples from an ASR-10. That's the Defacto standard. I would second that theory.

BUT as far as programs to sequence in, I use Logic. It's easy to get into and make music with and adapts well. Cubase is tight also, but not as easy to get going with as Logic. I used to sequence with the ASR-10, but the Timing is much better on the mpc.

Mix your mixes down to a stereo VHS recorder. Something like a JVC SuperVHS with Level controls is nice. Still tape, still analogue and doesn't cost as much.

The whole concept about hip hop is UnQuality. I always practiced this. Look at a classic album like BizMarkies first album. Most of the tracks sounded like they recorded out of the DJ Mixer Pre-amp. Who knows they proly did. and they are the best records to scratch, to this day!!!

Peace
BaseJase
Producer
www.theblackpegasus.com
download videos and music

[ttauri]

Originally posted by illynoise
The 16 + has some of the nastiest sounding low end that you would want to put in a mix. You can't get a good 808 boomin in it, but it's definately got that really cool sound.

Ya think? For me, kicks were one of the things I never had much trouble with on the EPS. Perhaps that was the kind of kick sound I liked...

Loops through it really cried out for tape, though.

But overall, a mighty machine. Really worked great for me interface-wise in terms of not getting in the way of the flow... And got a lot of mileage out of the built-in effects. But file management on SCSI drove me nuts. I went back to diskettes, probably still be using it if double-density disks were easier to come by these days.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[illynoise]

I'm talking about the tail end of an 808 and even a sine wave tail. It was static(y) and even though, I still would use it.

Drums on those machines are nice, but always come out kind of dark sounding, compared to the MPC2000. I remember someone from akai on the mailing list back in like 96 saying that they put an exciter on the output of MPC's. They do something. Because my s3000xl sounds crispy just lilke an MPC.

Peace out,

BaseJase
illynoise

[sinsay]

sometimes it's the subtle (or not so subtle) imperfections that make some of make alot of those machines great for hip-hop. From an original EPS to SP1200 to MPC's 60, 60II, & 3K (never done the 2K or 4K), they all have there own sound and there own timing. I personally don't think the perfectnesssss of the new stuff really captures the rawness, too pretty.


SIN

[Flories]

I found a screenshot of an interesting program...



beïng a producer can be real simple these days !

[sinsay]

Windows software! Just like I thought.


SIN