Making hip hop beats that really sound like hip hop

[Jules]

Welcome to August 2005!

[saintjasin]

if I can add something...may be wrong cuz I'm a newbie...but along the lines of getting rich sounds due to the sample rate of some of that classic gear, there are plug ins and tools for DAW's that can reduce the bit rate of samples to give you that gritty sound...I'm a fan of "that sound"...has charachter...but lately I have been working hard at learning how to improve the quality of my recordings which led me here and also leads to this question...
...if I may? the Mpc drums DO sound way more solid than just about anything, and even sampling them sometimes just wont do it...why is that? and what am I doing wrong if anybody could help me...

[H-Rezz]

Well when you sample the MPC you are no longer using it's convertors and algorithms ! Now you are using whatever you have sampled it into ! If you want to keep the sound of your MPC pretty much intact you should track it back into your DAW with a good DI/Pre into good AD convertors , even with this you only retain about 85-90% of you original source because the DI add it's things the Pre-amp add it's thing , the convertor add it's thing and finally your DAWS audio algorithms add it's thing !

[shotmillions]

Personally i have an ENSONIQ ASR X PRO and A akai S3000XL the akai doesnt sound near as phat as the Ensoniq... so i dont really use it its for sale btw... the akai since id never sell the ASR X PRO anyways yeah the ensoniq makes anything sound really PHATT plus its got onboard eq ect ect...

If not that use some EQ fruitys EQUO its the best for starting off since its really easy to use and quickly teachs you what the hell is going on.

I also use fruity loops, logic, cubase and reason. But hardwares the best!

[DJ ALX]

Originally Posted by shotmillions

Personally i have an ENSONIQ ASR X PRO and A akai S3000XL the akai doesnt sound near as phat as the Ensoniq... so i dont really use it its for sale btw... the akai since id never sell the ASR X PRO anyways yeah the ensoniq makes anything sound really PHATT plus its got onboard eq ect ect...

If not that use some EQ fruitys EQUO its the best for starting off since its really easy to use and quickly teachs you what the hell is going on.

I also use fruity loops, logic, cubase and reason. But hardwares the best!

Im considering getting an ensoniq asr x pro. But does it have shuffle quantize or groove quantize (mpc's time correction)?

[DSMrehearsal]

TAPE machines 2 inch 16/24 track, mpc (any upto the 4000) and a set of good ears

[mix-it-well]

Mhh I'm a bit confused...this thread was about making beats sound like hiphop or not?
Why are we now dicussing gear?!
I don't get it...ok maybe the MPC becuase of the groove....but I think making something sound like xy is about producing not about gear.

[rickrock305]

people who are wack, just can't believe that its actually them thats wack...so they blame it on the gear. great for gear manufacturers though, dude will just keep buying stuff.

[mix-it-well]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

people who are wack, just can't believe that its actually them thats wack...so they blame it on the gear. great for gear manufacturers though, dude will just keep buying stuff.

lol that's the sad truth right here.
But you're damn right ,I realized (even mroe after finding thos forum) that some of the wackest producers I every heard in my young life ,have the damn finest gear.Goddamnit How do they got all the money for that ? that's sick and not in a good way.

Don't want to hate I'm not mad at them and don't got credits like Storch or Dre so maybe I shouldn't say that but thats what I think ,feel me?

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by mix-it-well

lol that's the sad truth right here.
But you're damn right ,I realized (even mroe after finding thos forum) that some of the wackest producers I every heard in my young life ,have the damn finest gear.Goddamnit How do they got all the money for that ? that's sick and not in a good way.

Don't want to hate I'm not mad at them and don't got credits like Storch or Dre so maybe I shouldn't say that but thats what I think ,feel me?

Being a great producer, has a lot to do with the music background you had growing up. Sure you can teach a dude how to use great equipment, but it takes a longer time to teach him the FEEL of the music.

With any style of music, what you put down on the keyboard, or what you tap out on the MPC, has a lot to do with your music influences during previous years.

Dr.Dre was heavily influenced by funk, which provided a basis for him to develop his sound on.

Scott Storch was a classically trained pianist. So he can play just about anything that anyone asks him to, or anything that comes to his mind. All he had to do was learn the feel of hiphop style music.

I dont have credits like Dr.Dre, or Scott Storch (yet), but I still have a very good feel for what works and what doesnt. To add to that I also have musical backgrounds that encourage the type of sound I come up with when making my tunes.

The problem with some of these guys who "suck", is they either cant play any instruments, have no knowledge on instrumental/song arrangements, and have no significant music influences to provide a starting point that would allow them to be original!

Instead these guys will just try to mimic what they hear and like out on the mainstream, and do a very poor job at it.

I wouldnt even waste time hating or thinking about it if I was any of you guys, because produucass like that arent gonna make it anywhere with wack skills anyway, just keep doing you and bring in that chedda.

[sergioelectro]

Originally Posted by illynoise

Mix your mixes down to a stereo VHS recorder. Something like a JVC SuperVHS with Level controls is nice. Still tape, still analogue and doesn't cost as much.

Peace
BaseJase
Producer
Black Pegasus Music - Contact info: fosproductions@hotmail.com
download videos and music

Hello

Do you get really nice results with that VHS recorder ?
CAn you tell me how you use it ?
any specific model in mind ?

Thanks

Sergio

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by squizz

its not the program my friend its the producer (and sometimes the mix engineer) but for the most part any good hiphop producer can use just about any DAW and make it bump. Programs dont make the track the producers does and if your kick (provided you use good samples) and your bass are locked properly it will bump.

Its about the arrangement not the program. All the gear and programs in the world cant make a shitty arrangement good.

[philosofi]

Originally Posted by PettyCash

... Sure you can teach a dude how to use great equipment, but it takes a longer time to teach him the FEEL of the music.

With any style of music, what you put down on the keyboard, or what you tap out on the MPC, has a lot to do with your music influences during previous years.

Dr.Dre was heavily influenced by funk, which provided a basis for him to develop his sound on.

Scott Storch was a classically trained pianist. So he can play just about anything that anyone asks him to, or anything that comes to his mind. All he had to do was learn the feel of hiphop style music...

prob. the most true reply for this.. you hear storch do some crazy keyboarding (Eminem - The Real Slim Shady) because that's what his mind is trained to do. most producers who make real hip-hop (Hi-Tek, Pete Rock, etc.) grew up in the 70's-early 80's, so the 'soul' in music is what they're trying to accomplish. nowadays the culture is at the age where people are growing up on music from the 90's, which is, probably, why all the new 'gimmicks' are mostly CB-4 artists/producers whose background in music are probably people like Easy-E(i.e. The Game) Master P, Too Short, Wu-Tang, Scarface - & ne1 else who was as big in the early 90's, when music was basically sampling 100% of the time.

even THEN, Master P made his style from imitating Bay Area rappers like Too Short & E-40,,, and now you have one of the best artists in the South today (Young Jeezy) whose style sounds very similar to Master P (UUUUUGH!) so, the downward spiral begins..


on the MAKING of music tip though, i use FruityLoops alone, sometimes, and nobody can tell me my joints are garbage 'just because..'. you'd probably couldn't tell if i didn't tell u either.

[yaboicheeze]

Originally Posted by entropy

shit cdog! that looks some NASTY shit! g13??

no sh!t they got g13 in austalia too ......wow what else do they got?

[charliemizza]

the biggest mistake ametuer producers make is eq the kicks and the bass (or any sound) to close. for example, if your kick is sitting at 120hZ keep your bass line at least 80 hz away - lower or higher. compress drums from 4:1-6:1 with a semifast attack, then the bass at like 16:1-19:1. then adjust volumes.

[cynic]

Originally Posted by charliemizza

the biggest mistake ametuer producers make is eq the kicks and the bass (or any sound) to close. for example, if your kick is sitting at 120hZ keep your bass line at least 80 hz away - lower or higher. compress drums from 4:1-6:1 with a semifast attack, then the bass at like 16:1-19:1. then adjust volumes.

....you can't be serious.

so you're saying if the meat of your kick is @ 120hz, you want to have your bass sitting MINIMUM at 40hz, and possibly only lower?

going a little overboard there...

[charliemizza]

Originally Posted by philosofi

prob. the most true reply for this.. you hear storch do some crazy keyboarding (Eminem - The Real Slim Shady) because that's what his mind is trained to do. most producers who make real hip-hop (Hi-Tek, Pete Rock, etc.) grew up in the 70's-early 80's, so the 'soul' in music is what they're trying to accomplish. nowadays the culture is at the age where people are growing up on music from the 90's, which is, probably, why all the new 'gimmicks' are mostly CB-4 artists/producers whose background in music are probably people like Easy-E(i.e. The Game) Master P, Too Short, Wu-Tang, Scarface - & ne1 else who was as big in the early 90's, when music was basically sampling 100% of the time.

even THEN, Master P made his style from imitating Bay Area rappers like Too Short & E-40,,, and now you have one of the best artists in the South today (Young Jeezy) whose style sounds very similar to Master P (UUUUUGH!) so, the downward spiral begins..


on the MAKING of music tip though, i use FruityLoops alone, sometimes, and nobody can tell me my joints are garbage 'just because..'. you'd probably couldn't tell if i didn't tell u either.

AMEN!!!!!!!........yeah, no shit. i hate to air it out, but im obviously not the only one who feels this way, so here it is:
the south, on a mainstream level, is just wack as hell lately! not just production, the lyrics too.
"Soulja Boy" got nominated for a grammy? Are you kidding me? What the hell's that song about anyway (seriously, if anyone knows please tell me - the video's confusing)? I knew that was FL7 the at the first marimba drop. I think a good producer makes ot hard to figure out, ya know? Now you got grown-ass men in the club doin that dance. What's the industry doing these days? Are they just signing people because the hook would make a good ringtone?
You said it well dude - from my perspective, cash money kinda had there own uniqeness...KINDA - with that song "bling bling". from there almost every up and comer from the south has been copying each other. Granted that it all started in the bronx, so then dre and nwa blew up the west.....the chronic dropped, then the south blew up. i think hiphop kinda migrated from east to west - in which time there was good, new creativity, then it migrated south and...well... that goose must have had a hard landing cuz it's been retarded ever since - save a few. Ludacris for one. I'm not a HUGE fan of his music, but it's a lot more intersting than most. At last he's original. T.I., big up. Let's not forget UGK - they've been grindin forever! Other than that in my opinion - and take it as no more than that -a new, exciting sound has yet to come from the south.

So what's left? MIDWEST BABY!! Let's bring it!

[MattmaN]

The difference is these old samplers automatically sounded this way.
An sp1200 sounds like an sp1200.
An audio interface will sound like an audio interface, but with with a trained ear, effects, and some idea of how to mix to sound oldschool, you can get the same type of sound of 12 bit samplers from days gone.
Maybe exactly perfecting the exact sound of a specific sampler would be a tough task, but getting the general sound of that era is definitely within grasp.

[mistarazor]

Originally Posted by squizz

its not the program my friend its the producer (and sometimes the mix engineer) but for the most part any good hiphop producer can use just about any DAW and make it bump. Programs dont make the track the producers does and if your kick (provided you use good samples) and your bass are locked properly it will bump.

Its about the arrangement not the program. All the gear and programs in the world cant make a shitty arrangement good.

amen!

[Black_English]

Originally Posted by squizz

its not the program my friend its the producer (and sometimes the mix engineer) but for the most part any good hiphop producer can use just about any DAW and make it bump. Programs dont make the track the producers does and if your kick (provided you use good samples) and your bass are locked properly it will bump.

Its about the arrangement not the program. All the gear and programs in the world cant make a shitty arrangement good.

That's the end of this thread, right there.

[R'shonn]

Originally Posted by philosofi

prob. the most true reply for this.. you hear storch do some crazy keyboarding (Eminem - The Real Slim Shady) because that's what his mind is trained to do. most producers who make real hip-hop (Hi-Tek, Pete Rock, etc.) grew up in the 70's-early 80's, so the 'soul' in music is what they're trying to accomplish. nowadays the culture is at the age where people are growing up on music from the 90's, which is, probably, why all the new 'gimmicks' are mostly CB-4 artists/producers whose background in music are probably people like Easy-E(i.e. The Game) Master P, Too Short, Wu-Tang, Scarface - & ne1 else who was as big in the early 90's, when music was basically sampling 100% of the time.

even THEN, Master P made his style from imitating Bay Area rappers like Too Short & E-40,,, and now you have one of the best artists in the South today (Young Jeezy) whose style sounds very similar to Master P (UUUUUGH!) so, the downward spiral begins..


on the MAKING of music tip though, i use FruityLoops alone, sometimes, and nobody can tell me my joints are garbage 'just because..'. you'd probably couldn't tell if i didn't tell u either.

Originally Posted by charliemizza

AMEN!!!!!!!........yeah, no shit. i hate to air it out, but im obviously not the only one who feels this way, so here it is:
the south, on a mainstream level, is just wack as hell lately! not just production, the lyrics too.
"Soulja Boy" got nominated for a grammy? Are you kidding me? What the hell's that song about anyway (seriously, if anyone knows please tell me - the video's confusing)? I knew that was FL7 the at the first marimba drop. I think a good producer makes ot hard to figure out, ya know? Now you got grown-ass men in the club doin that dance. What's the industry doing these days? Are they just signing people because the hook would make a good ringtone?
You said it well dude - from my perspective, cash money kinda had there own uniqeness...KINDA - with that song "bling bling". from there almost every up and comer from the south has been copying each other. Granted that it all started in the bronx, so then dre and nwa blew up the west.....the chronic dropped, then the south blew up. i think hiphop kinda migrated from east to west - in which time there was good, new creativity, then it migrated south and...well... that goose must have had a hard landing cuz it's been retarded ever since - save a few. Ludacris for one. I'm not a HUGE fan of his music, but it's a lot more intersting than most. At last he's original. T.I., big up. Let's not forget UGK - they've been grindin forever! Other than that in my opinion - and take it as no more than that -a new, exciting sound has yet to come from the south.

So what's left? MIDWEST BABY!! Let's bring it!

I second this (or third?) oh and you forgot Outkast for the southern rappers category

[Jermaine]

back in the days i sample the mpc beat straight to my tape deck (with a good cassette in it), and thats it! :) i still love the methode, because sometimes i love it really lofi and broken! ;)

[Bravo]

No doubt. Also just realized with the old sampler debate to complete the trifecta you have to figure in VELOCITY SENSITIVITY + THE RIGHT SAMPLER - QUANTIZE = real hip-hop.

or (velocity sensitivity + right sampler + some chronic)² +/- quantize = neck spasm

or "this is a quantization/fixed velocity free zone"

or "a drum that nice should never hit twice, adjust your velocity accordingly"

damn this is some good shiznittlebamsnimsnamsnapple!

[jedilaw]

Originally Posted by charliemizza

the south, on a mainstream level, is just wack as hell lately! not just production, the lyrics too.
"Soulja Boy" got nominated for a grammy? Are you kidding me?

Dude, don't even get me started on f00kin' Soulja Boy. He is to Hip-Hop what a limp dick is to porno.

As for what makes something sound like Hip Hop or not, it's not the gear (as has been said). A moron with a pair of Technics SL-1200 MK2 decks and an MPC-60 is still just another moron. And a genius like, say, D.J. Premier or J. Dilla could make somethin' that bangs with two soup cans and a ball of yarn. It's not the what...it's the who.

[Jermaine]

thats true bro, i totally agree!!! but premo is no genius, just great beatmaker.

but good gear is great.. i have a cheap turntable and an also cheap mixer and scratching is so bad on these thing.. :( ;)

[smoke]

Did someone say they used a VCR? LOL that's crazy. Mofos cartin out old film reels now.