Mix Engineers ... what do you like to see?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

When was the last time you worked with a major label?

Last week.

[Jake Gilla]

Originally Posted by peeder

You are just trying to make the decision tree favor prompt payment. You have contract law on your side! But if you are too timid to use it, then the decision tree favors guess what?

Thats what it seems like to me. If you have a contract you have legal rights. And shit when that doesnt work, you have the media. You get enough people with the same problem with the same labels and somebody is gonna cover it.

As a disclaimer, I have never worked with a major label. It just seems to me that if you have a contract with somebody and they clearly breach it, you have a responsibility to take legal action.

[nukmusic]

Peeder.. please dont start with the bullshit. this topic is going nice without it. Seriously.

And Tony took the words "off my finger tips". Terms on an invoice dont mean s h i t.
I say again...

Terms on an invoice dont mean s h i t.
they will read it
they will understand it
they will agree to it
then they will find some reason to NOT honor it as written.

Its just the way it is. Another biggie is "CORRECT" album credits. but that's a whole-notha thread in itself.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

Peeder.. please dont start with the bullshit. this topic is going nice without it. Seriously.

And Tony took the words "off my finger tips". Terms on an invoice dont mean s h i t.
I say again...

Terms on an invoice dont mean s h i t.

Try and tell that to the judge!

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by peeder

Try and tell that to the judge!

Sue a Major and see how much work you get from any other Major thereafter, . You'll learn the hard way that this is not your ordinary business.

you really need to quit dude. seriously


and back to the topic.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

Sue a Major and see how much work you get thereafter. You'll learn that hard way that this is not your ordinary business.

you really need to quit dude. seriously

Look, once you have executable paperwork in hand, that is in arrears, you can sell the invoice to a collections agency. They will then go and attempt to collect on it. This will appear on the company's credit history, and since a label is just a very poor finance operation, that's really, really going to hurt.

Since these invoices are generally small potatoes...unless you're in the top batch we're talking under $10K usually...there's no way in hell a label will risk their creditworthiness over delaying payment.

The courts have no choice but to enforce this system stringently, otherwise total economic chaos across the country would ensue.

As for labels hiring you, sure I don't recommend referring the account to collections or applying small claims...but you should be absolutely confident in your terms and make it clear you are also in business. You hold all the cards once the work is accepted (and set a time limit after which acceptance is assumed if you don't hear otherwise). Again, talk directly to accounting. Be nice of course, but hold them accountable.

You won't get any respect you don't demand.

And if you're the goose that lays the golden egg, they're not going to abandon you over insisting that terms be honored. If you're a marginal talent, you'll probably be replaced anyway.

[rickrock305]

this f*ckin guy again?

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by peeder

Not me, I'd rather have the top...the bottom generally sucks...piffley pish.

Originally Posted by ryst

Well, I guess I should have said "lately" like within the last couple years. But then again, it depends on how well everything was recorded anyway.

I, as a mix engineer, assume the engineer recorded every bit for a reason, but if I have any question, I'll refer it to the client.

As a tracking engineer, I assume the mix engineer will assume I'm not incompetent and thus included any mic - be it bottom snare, snare shell, or some freaky room - for a good reason.

I think it's irresponsible to project your own preferences on a project, unless you've gotten the OK from the client/producer, or know for a fact the tracking engineer is a hack.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

Terms on an invoice dont mean s h i t.
they will read it
they will understand it
they will agree to it
then they will find some reason to NOT honor it as written.

Its just the way it is.

And not just in the music biz — any business that's not cash based from my experience.

I now have a 'pay on completion' policy for some of my customers. Work is done, you see, you approve, you pay then you get it. Until it's paid for, you don't get it. fuuck

[ryst]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

I think it's irresponsible to project your own preferences on a project, unless you've gotten the OK from the client/producer, or know for a fact the tracking engineer is a hack.

I NEVER project my own preferences on a project. I was answering a question on the thread thinking it was a hypothetical question (all things being equal+plus my experiences). But at the end of the day I want great sounding tracks. That's it.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by ryst

I NEVER project my own preferences on a project. I was answering a question on the thread thinking it was a hypothetical question (all things being equal+plus my experiences). But at the end of the day I want great sounding tracks. That's it.

thumbsupGotchya!

[parkay909]

I am a simple man. I don't ask for much besides a check that won't bounce or cash.
Heres what will make my life easier...

1. Every track is labeled properly. "Chorus 1a, 2a, etc" doesnt cut it. Each track should have the name of the instrument or the vocalist followed by main, hook 1, 2, adlib 1, 2 etc. Sections should be indicated using the markers. tutt
2. All vocal tracks should start at the same point. Leave the reigon and mute the parts that shouldnt be playing. All the vocal stacks should be nice blocks that move diagonaly from upper left to lower right.
3. Take all the damm plug-ins off and zero the faders!!!
4. Put your rough mix in as a stereo track at the bottom.
5. Put the 2-track rough of the beat at the top.
6. Use the markers to lable verse, chorus, etc and make sure the grid lines up right.
7. List the gear you used in the memo lines.
8. Include a text file with the session with other notes, cool ideas you had, and what the artist and the producer want from the mix.
9. Make sure the session will load and all the files are there before you send off the CD/DVD!!!!
10. Don't forget to put the check in the envelope with the data disk.

fuuck

[parkay909]

In responce to all the contract law squabbling above

1. The studios do use the net+30 practice and enforce it. If they didnt they wouldnt make any money. They have a list of clients and credits that allow them to hav that pull with the lable. People who dont pay their bills are typically not welcome at the studio anymore and most studio owners talk to each other about who pays on time and who doesnt. It is a very small business community.

2. Engineers are a dime a dozen to the lables and the studios. You get paid when they feel like sending you a check. If you mention the word contract they wil call someone else. Engineers bill more like a plumber - they come do the work then send you the bill.

[Bounce]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

That's kinda funny. 5 years ago I got a P.O. from Warner Bros., for a project.
45 days later I called to check on when the check was going to be sent out.

She then proceeded to tell me, "just because you have P.O. from Warner Bros., doesn't mean you are going to get paid".

I was incredulous!
So I said, what's the purpose of getting a P.O. from you all anymore?

She said, "we'll, I'm just telling you what our new policy is".

Every year the major labels have changed their payment schedule.
Now major labels are telling producers there is no back end if your song doesn't go on the record.

It doesn't matter that you've already done the work.
If they choose not to put it on the record, no back end.

Yup, I just mixed a fancy pants record last year on said label and got the run around for the balance (half!) for OVER 120 days! Seriously. There are all kinds of things you can try that you do with indie clients such as "no delivery til pmt in full, net 30" yada yada, but good luck. By the time you hit them with a collection agency and get the process started, you've probably finally gotten paid, though way late. There are some majors that have paid me in pretty good time as of late but in all truth, it seems sometimes the more money/budget a client has, the longer it takes them to pay! Why is that? When I was doing lots of local stuff, people working 3 minimum wage jobs would pay in advance! It's all backwards.

Heck, in theory mixing rates seem backwards. Many of us charge an "indie" rate to mix a song for unsigned or indie artists with much less budget, promo and marketing behind them, meaning that maybe only 4 people will ever hear the record. Then we charge several times that amount for a major label project that may have a much bigger chance of "being a hit" and pushing our names even more (and career). I think the reason for this in part is BECAUSE of the drama labels have caused in the past for many engineers/producers in getting paid. There are several other factors that go along with a major label rate such as additional studio(s) if needed, gear rentals if needed, yada yada but it's an interesting angle to inspect :-)


The good news is that on this particular record I mixed last year, I got asked to mix 4 additional songs months later and did make them promise, double pinky swear that they wouldn't take so long to pay me. It's weird, they actually did pay promptly. Huh, musta been the pinky thing. Gotta remember that next time.

[peeder]

Some of this has to do with quarterly budgets and results. A/P will be under pressure from management to massage the numbers that go out to the shareholders/board quarterly. So there is up to 90 days of delay for you if you're stuck in a bad quarter. Other quarters there will be pressure to spend quickly because the projections for the following quarter aren't as rosy.

Even so, it's up to engineers to collectively fight for respect. If they want to treat you like a plumber, then let them try to make hit records with a plumber.

[stevens119]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

With hip-hop, sample-based stuff, clipped samples and levels that are overly hot sorta bum me out, but it's not too hard to fix.

How do you fix clipping? I am having a problem with some files that got sent here, and I don't really know what to do about it

[peeder]

Originally Posted by stevens119

How do you fix clipping? I am having a problem with some files that got sent here, and I don't really know what to do about it

Try izotope RX declipper for a cheap way...

[Tony Shepperd]

I've said it before, I'll say it again... it's time for an engineers union.
This is a long overdue discussion that still needs to happen.

Paying engineers 120 days out...
Major labels would never pull this kind of crap with the musicians union.

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

I've said it before, I'll say it again... it's time for an engineers union.

i agree, i know some folks down here in south FL trying to make it happen

[ryst]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

I've said it before, I'll say it again... it's time for an engineers union.
This is a long overdue discussion that still needs to happen.

Paying engineers 120 days out...
Major labels would never pull this kind of crap with the musicians union.

WOW. Great idea! +a billion!

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

Don't like to see:
printed effects (especially bad reverb)....that shit drives me nuts

Like to see:
the work keep coming

yeah, i find myself whipping out a expander to rid the reverb constantly..its a real pain..especially if its a fruity loop reverb on 50% wet (soulja boy?!?)

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

i agree, i know some folks down here in south FL trying to make it happen

You could try joining S.P.A.R.S.

Welcome

[Trell Blaze]

What pisses me off???

I just took on a one tune project at a pre-determined price. My terms were that all editing had to be in order.

When I got the project, it was in 5 different sessions!! I had to pull shit from all 5 places (most of it was guess work). They sent me a reference track AFTER I requested it - "I thought it was in the session...oh well here it is..."

Despite my policy about "no 2track instrumentals", I accepted the 2track project. Vocal mixes on your average rap should NOT take several days to mix, yet here I am 7 working days later. Earlier today I sent them an mp3 of the "Final Mix" for approval. I get an email that says, "Sounds great, but the 3rd verse is missing. It should be in **** folder". 3rd verse?? I didn't even hear a 3rd verse on the reference they sent me!!

I sit here wondering exactly how much extra I should charge once this track is done...

[parkay909]

Originally Posted by stevens119

How do you fix clipping? I am having a problem with some files that got sent here, and I don't really know what to do about it

There is only one way to fix clipping. Delete the files and re-record them. There are some plugs that can mask clipping but once its in there its permanent.

I usualy wont work on sessions that have fukt up tracks because when the client gets them back an they hear clipping or some other doo-doo in the sound ultimately the will blame you because you touched it last.

"You can polish a turd all you want but at the end of the day you still have a piece of shit in your hands."

[SoundProofStudio]

I like to see actual waveforms and not brickwall forms....

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

You could try joining S.P.A.R.S.

Welcome

I've talked to both people are both SPARS and the P&E Wing of NARAS.
Neither one of those organizations wants to get involved.

Individually there are a lot of people who work there that are really supportive of the concept, but the organizations themselves won't get involved.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Now major labels are telling producers there is no back end if your song doesn't go on the record.

It doesn't matter that you've already done the work.
If they choose not to put it on the record, no back end.

And I actually find that completely acceptable.
Why should you get back-end for something not being used?

[peeder]

You could just form small rings for the invoice issue. Anyone has an unpaid balance and you all stop working for that label until the account is settled.

Yes it will make them very uncomfortable but if it builds momentum then they will learn not to assume engineers want to give them interest-free loans.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by peeder

You could just form small rings for the invoice issue. Anyone has an unpaid balance and you all stop working for that label until the account is settled.

Yes it will make them very uncomfortable but if it builds momentum then they will learn not to assume engineers want to give them interest-free loans.

I'm so glad I don't do music production and engineering for a living anymore.
This type of thing rarely happens in post, and never with a major studio.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I'm so glad I don't do music production and engineering for a living anymore.
This type of thing rarely happens in post, and never with a major studio.

And that's what you'll hear back from the labels...that they are lucky to be able to pay within a year much less 30 days at this point.

It would depend on the specific label but I don't think any of them can really contemplate continuing in business if they can't pay a key contributor like a mix engineer promptly. They can drag out paying for promotional crap instead.