SAMIAM Mixing SUCKA 4 LUV....

[kriscain]

I do have a question for you Sam

as far as mixing kicks...
you say you create layers of the kick

do you use the same kick over again? and just enhance the different sections of the sound.... or use different kicks, and then tweak them to get a fatter sound?

i ask because I want to know if you ever get any complaints from clients about changing the dynamic of thier kick sound.

Have you ever had a client request that a certain aspect of there mix not be altered?

and one more...

i have a frustrating time with applying reverb to lead vocals... one thing i usually do, that i've found helps me get the mix sound cohesive, is to apply a reverb to the vocal that is similar to the snare. I want to know if I've got the right idea in doing that.

[backbuss]

Originally Posted by kriscain

I do have a question for you Sam

as far as mixing kicks...
you say you create layers of the kick

do you use the same kick over again? and just enhance the different sections of the sound.... or use different kicks, and then tweak them to get a fatter sound?

i ask because I want to know if you ever get any complaints from clients about changing the dynamic of thier kick sound.

Have you ever had a client request that a certain aspect of there mix not be altered?

and one more...

i have a frustrating time with applying reverb to lead vocals... one thing i usually do, that i've found helps me get the mix sound cohesive, is to apply a reverb to the vocal that is similar to the snare. I want to know if I've got the right idea in doing that.

yes and yes...... i use 1 kik multiple times .... create the sound of the spectrum ..... i.e. booom>>>>mid>>>>punch>>>>attack.... all in one makes one schwacking kik ....
also sometimes there is 3 or 4 different kiks going on.... so i'll blend them all together to make 1 explosive hit(of course it depends on the song)

yes, clients do give me guidelines, but most of the time they let me do me, thats why they called me to do it .... because of the creativity i bring to the mix.....

alot of time i roll off 300hz and below off the reverb so i wont get the low end in the verb.....kinda helps clear it up........

sometimes i use the same reverb as the snare and sometime i use an additional one for vocals(depends on dynamics of song)

does this help?

-samiam-

[tonymission]

Originally Posted by backbuss

yes and yes...... i use 1 kik multiple times .... create the sound of the spectrum ..... i.e. booom>>>>mid>>>>punch>>>>attack.... all in one makes one schwacking kik ....
also sometimes there is 3 or 4 different kiks going on.... so i'll blend them all together to make 1 explosive hit(of course it depends on the song)

yes, clients do give me guidelines, but most of the time they let me do me, thats why they called me to do it .... because of the creativity i bring to the mix.....

alot of time i roll off 300hz and below off the reverb so i wont get the low end in the verb.....kinda helps clear it up........

sometimes i use the same reverb as the snare and sometime i use an additional one for vocals(depends on dynamics of song)

does this help?

-samiam-

so how does that kick end up getting mixed then? group mix, pre-processing, routing to a bus and back to the drum aux or ... ? curious, i love drum work technique!

i tend to do a lot of pyramid (i guess) style routing and mixing... where my kicks will go to a logic bus, the other drums get sent to a sub-group which sends to a reverb aux (low end rolled off as you mentioned but i like to do it before the reverb in the chain usually) and then both groups output to a final "summing" group that then goes to the output ... ill typically group mix the non-drums the same but with more continuity so i end up with two top-level sub-mix groups that get a SSLish group compression before hitting the master ...

(just read that... a picture would be much easier haha)

does this make any sense? ive been enjoying a coffee-shishkaberry strain that has me staring at the wall but ya... :P

am i wasting my time or do you spend time thinking/planning out mix routing and the like ? sometimes i feel like i over complicate things but rationalize it as creating my personal tonal characterization ..

[jb4play]

Happy to see that this thread is finally turning into something positive. Sam, is there a way to pull over some of the discussions you've answered on TSE (The Studio Exposed) as well and turn it into a big sticky thread here (Mod, can we do that?)? There is so much information I've picked up between those 2 sites regarding engineering techniques the last few weeks.



Rel
myspace.com/trakatiksmusic
trakatiksmusic@gmail.com

[Exmun]

Originally Posted by backbuss

thanks Umlaaat.....

.... i pan my bgvs all over, but never 100 LorR.... like 70, 70, 40, 40 on the root 80,80, 30, 30 and so on .... just to let every track have its own place, the S1 and PS22 is a good way to give width.....

...

reverbs and delays i use via aux sends on the desk to Lexicon 480L and 2290
Trueverb is a great plug and my favorite plug for delay is none other than the digirack extra long delay....


-samiam-

Sam,

I've got a few questions for you. You talk above about how you pan the vocals. Based on what you say in the quote are you saying that you're creating essentially a big mono mix of the BGVs where you have the same harmony represented on both sides of center. Is this what you're doing? E.g. Danity Kane is five girls. So typically you're talking about 3 or 4-part harmonies with a lead vocal (or three part harmony with a counter section singing some ear candy type stuff). Are you putting harmony 1 @ 80 on the Left and then @ 80 on the Right ... or are you saying that you put harmony 1 at 80 on the Left, harmony 2 at 80 on the other side (Right), harmony 3 at 30 on the Right and harmony 4 at 30 on the Left? Please explain.

And just to qualify, I realize that we're talking about stacks of these harmonies. My question is about what you're doing to the stacks.

The issue of Danity Kane also raises the other question of effects. DK's harmony sound is a very common sound in RnB (a good sound). I'd always gotten the impression that the sound was from something like an Eventide unit. Your quote above seems to suggest that the vocal stacks create "the sound" without too much fussing about by the mix engineer--except for adding a tight verb and a couple delays. Did I read that correctly or are there other things that you and the entire world of RnB mixers do to get that background sound?

Anything you can add would be helpful. Man, what I'd give a whole lot to be a fly on the wall of one of your or Ken's mix sessions. Just to watch, shut up and take notes.

[Teh Guerilla]

well if you have ever tried panning multiple takes of the same stack to opposite positions left and right, you can get great blends. it is not mono, in fact if you put them in the right spot they can sound huge. and it makes the mix move with different harmonies coming in and out in the stereo spectrum.

I got yo back sammy sam

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by backbuss

i
just dont F it up.....

best advice yet!

[Keyflo]

good song, 56 channels i really dont kno why, maybe its because of each girls lead and dubs so u must think about that......I wish i had it all lol....

[backbuss]

Originally Posted by Keyflo

good song, 56 channels i really dont kno why, maybe its because of each girls lead and dubs so u must think about that......I wish i had it all lol....

my question to everyone is..... how many of yall have been in a large format room? how many of you have mixed on a large format console? ...... if you have not then you just dont know the power of the console and the analog gear..... and thats kool..... but if there are questions in why i use 54 channels ..... the songs i mix have around 24 to 48 tracks of just the music, and every track gets its own channel..... the rest 8 or 16 channels i dedicate to the vocals.......

if there are questions about why i use that much , ask them...... but dont be like WTF you need to do all that..... thats the way i do things......

one might take the highway to get somewhere, one might take the back roads...... we all get to the same spot...... a finished product.......


I LOVE ANALOG GEAR.........


-samiam-

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by Keyflo

good song, 56 channels i really dont kno why, maybe its because of each girls lead and dubs so u must think about that......I wish i had it all lol....

its pretty easy to use up 56 channels

[backbuss]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

its pretty easy to use up 56 channels

thank you Rick ..... i can see by your avatar that you know what im talking about........

what you been working on???

-samiam-

[scorpio01169]

Originally Posted by backbuss

my question to everyone is..... how many of yall have been in a large format room? how many of you have mixed on a large format console? ...... if you have not then you just dont know the power of the console and the analog gear..... and thats kool..... but if there are questions in why i use 54 channels ..... the songs i mix have around 24 to 48 tracks of just the music, and every track gets its own channel..... the rest 8 or 16 channels i dedicate to the vocals.......

if there are questions about why i use that much , ask them...... but dont be like WTF you need to do all that..... thats the way i do things......

one might take the highway to get somewhere, one might take the back roads...... we all get to the same spot...... a finished product.......


I LOVE ANALOG GEAR.........


-samiam-

It's funny you mentioned that all the music you get is tracked out cause we were having this discussion before and i was saying it's better to track out vs two tracks of music and then vocals sent to the mixer.

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by backbuss

thank you Rick ..... i can see by your avatar that you know what im talking about........

what you been working on???

-samiam-

worked a bit on the N.E.R.D. album that just came out. tracked alot of stuff on the upcoming Timbaland/Chris Cornell project. did a track with Solange Knowles. been doing some tracking with a group named Duo Live as well.

been kinda slow down here lately. everyone keeps telling me to move up your way

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by scorpio01169

it's better to track out vs two tracks of music and then vocals sent to the mixer.

of course! it will only help the final product if you deliver everything separated to the mixer. you're really tying the mixer's hands if you jsut give him a stereo mix of music, and shorting yourself in the process.

[backbuss]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

of course! it will only help the final product if you deliver everything separated to the mixer. you're really tying the mixer's hands if you jsut give him a stereo mix of music, and shorting yourself in the process.

most of the time the 2 track is mixed for instrumental only, when you add vocals you need everything to sit in its proper place.....

multitrack is very very very very necessary to make a great mix

-samiam-

[BIG_MYDUS]

Hi Sam on your youtube page the profile pic shows you at a Duality. Just wondering what u think of the duality/were u mixing or tracking/have you mixed on one?

We have duality in our facility so i'm interested in your opinion on it compared to G/J boards.

Thanks

Mike

[backbuss]

Originally Posted by BIG_MYDUS

Hi Sam on your youtube page the profile pic shows you at a Duality. Just wondering what u think of the duality/were u mixing or tracking/have you mixed on one?

We have duality in our facility so i'm interested in your opinion on it compared to G/J boards.

Thanks

Mike

i worked on the duality at Patchwerk Studios in Atlanta, GA for about a month straight working on "Monica's" new album...... i think that the new features with the new mic pre the THD and DAW control is great, and the SSL-Comp relationship is great.... via ethernet...... i have my own SSL account and can recall a session anywhere in the world..... just as it was in Atlanta........

the mixing capability is the same as the G/J plus the control of the DAW so you really never need to look at the screen...... you have total plugin control on the master section and the routing and bussing is so easy.......

overall i really like the Duality....... and at the same time my favorite board is the 4000G+ with Ultimation.......

i just built a house in Atlanta and the Basement is gonna be the dopest studio ever..... lookin to get a Duality of my own by this time next year......

what do you think of it?


-samiam-

[kriscain]

Originally Posted by backbuss

i just built a house in Atlanta and the Basement is gonna be the dopest studio ever..... lookin to get a Duality of my own by this time next year......

hey sam

do you do mixing independently? or do you only work contract jobs with majors? if you do independent work, how do your fees work out?

you can PM me if needed.
I've just always been interested in seeing what a mixer with a great track record charges for mixing tracks.

[BIG_MYDUS]

Originally Posted by backbuss

i worked on the duality at Patchwerk Studios in Atlanta, GA for about a month straight working on "Monica's" new album...... i think that the new features with the new mic pre the THD and DAW control is great, and the SSL-Comp relationship is great.... via ethernet...... i have my own SSL account and can recall a session anywhere in the world..... just as it was in Atlanta........

the mixing capability is the same as the G/J plus the control of the DAW so you really never need to look at the screen...... you have total plugin control on the master section and the routing and bussing is so easy.......

overall i really like the Duality....... and at the same time my favorite board is the 4000G+ with Ultimation.......

i just built a house in Atlanta and the Basement is gonna be the dopest studio ever..... lookin to get a Duality of my own by this time next year......

what do you think of it?


-samiam-

Love it, find myself using the board for most my EQ needs automation is easy, VHD thing is great for getting snares and synths to bite thru. total recall is great with the screens. haven't mixed on a neve but i get plenty low end out of the duality. Oh yeah works great with logic as a DAW controller.

lol like i said love it. Hope you get yours.

Mike

[tonymission]

Originally Posted by backbuss

i have my own SSL account and can recall a session anywhere in the world..... just as it was in Atlanta........

that's dope as hell

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by backbuss

i dont know the engineer you are speaking on but everyone works differently ... he may not like it done that way, but doesnt mean its wrong.....

if you feel good about your top and bottom blend then go for it....

remember there is no rules....

just dont F it up..... you know when its to much or not enough.... just listen..... when its right you'll know......

-samiam-

this is ridiculously honorable of you to do - so many responses.

[Denny Lavish]

Originally Posted by backbuss

.
lookin to get a Duality of my own by this time next year......




-samiam-

Did I introduce myself??? Im Denny, Nice to meet you!!!!!


Lavish

[Sirocco]

sam, how long do you take on mixes? do you take a break half way through (i find i HAVE to do this)

[1ManBand]

whats UP samiam! gordon here from AZ.. i see u got that ill type SOUND hahaa. i had a question that has to do with kicks.. i understand how u break it up into sections as u were saying with the boom mid punch attack.. do those ever overlap? or do u try to keep them not having the same frequencys. when i do it i have it overlapping sometimes but im not sure how u do it
do u do that with instruments as well? like breakthem up into low mids mids highs to get that maximum illusion.. or is it just drums?
last question.. i was gonna go to a seminar with ryan west and bassy bob in ny but it got cancled for some reason.. i saw u were cool with people sitting in and watching u work? man i would love to go to atl and see a pro work.. i could stay out the way if u needed or i could clean stuff.. im part mexican holms