Laptop Review for Music Production

[smccarthy945]

Originally Posted by blisters

Please explain?

I'm about to buy a laptop, on which I want to run Reason and Wavelab. Wavelab 6 is PC-only, but I want to get a MacBook Pro. So... I've been thinking about running Reason on the Mac OS and Wavelab on Windows in Bootcamp.

I know there are music producers out there who are doing this, so what are the problems (potential or actual)? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "driver support" & Apple's lack of it. If it works, it works, right? or am I being naive.

***news flash*** I just got a call from the guy I'm buying the software from, and he tells me Wavelab 7 (for Mac) is due to be released in June-July. So I can upgrade then, and run it on the Mac OS - problem solved, no need for Bootcamp. But I'd still be interested to know what the probs are, in your opinion.

thanks!

The Macbook Pro is a dope laptop. It has a great keyboard, unibody construction and the nicest display I have ever seen. Windows 7 has been out for over a year and they still do not have fully working drivers in my opinion. The webcam never works out of hibernate, the sound breaks up alot after hibernate and the touchpad is terrible in Windows 7.

Don't get me wrong, the laptop works and the drivers "work". There are just annoyances with it that they still have yet to fix and they just seem like they are dragging their feet releasing a full set of working Windows 7 drivers.

Also, keep in mind that I am sure Windows 7 will be the last windows OS that Apple will support on these models so if a new version of Win comes out I am sure we are screwed in terms of drivers.

If you want a laptop that can run both Os'es the Macbook Pro is the way to go. If you are primarly going to use Windows only, I would consider another machine.

I use both the Macbook Pro and HP Elitebook and for Windows, the Elitebook is much more usable. I get frustrated with the touchpad on the Mac.

[3rd Degree]

Lenovo makes great machines. I haven't used one myself but my brother has one. He is an independant contractor and this is the first laptop he hasn't broke (his laptops see the same mileage as some of our cars). You can get a great graphics card that has the resolution that you need for big sessions. His cad work is more intesive than most people's music projects. I don't know what model he has, I know he paid quite a bit but I am very impressed with it.

[larrygates]

Hey smccarthy,

on your envy, can you run large vsti sessions, 1+ GB of kontakt / guru / vst synths / modeling vst's etc . . . all at low 64 sample or 128 sample buffers? without crazy pops and dropouts?

What can you not do? are you using asio4all or do you plug in a usb interface. Looking at the RME usb interfaces, they look good. NOt sure how they are though.

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

The Macbook Pro is a dope laptop. It has a great keyboard, unibody construction and the nicest display I have ever seen. Windows 7 has been out for over a year and they still do not have fully working drivers in my opinion. The webcam never works out of hibernate, the sound breaks up alot after hibernate and the touchpad is terrible in Windows 7.

Don't get me wrong, the laptop works and the drivers "work". There are just annoyances with it that they still have yet to fix and they just seem like they are dragging their feet releasing a full set of working Windows 7 drivers.

Also, keep in mind that I am sure Windows 7 will be the last windows OS that Apple will support on these models so if a new version of Win comes out I am sure we are screwed in terms of drivers.

If you want a laptop that can run both Os'es the Macbook Pro is the way to go. If you are primarly going to use Windows only, I would consider another machine.

I use both the Macbook Pro and HP Elitebook and for Windows, the Elitebook is much more usable. I get frustrated with the touchpad on the Mac.

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

Lenovo T61 (current) ** My recommendation for music production:
The boot is a little slow due to the Lenovo management software.

Replace the 5400 RPM system disk with a 7200 RPM disk (e.g. Hitachi 7K320 or 7K500). This will speed up booting tremendously.

In order to keep the original diagnostic partition, save the entire system disk on DVD's with Rescue and Recovery software and reinstall on the new disk from there.

Did it on my T60. Wow!

[Reggmail]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

The Macbook Pro is a dope laptop. It has a great keyboard, unibody construction and the nicest display I have ever seen. Windows 7 has been out for over a year and they still do not have fully working drivers in my opinion. The webcam never works out of hibernate, the sound breaks up alot after hibernate and the touchpad is terrible in Windows 7.

Don't get me wrong, the laptop works and the drivers "work". There are just annoyances with it that they still have yet to fix and they just seem like they are dragging their feet releasing a full set of working Windows 7 drivers.

Also, keep in mind that I am sure Windows 7 will be the last windows OS that Apple will support on these models so if a new version of Win comes out I am sure we are screwed in terms of drivers.

If you want a laptop that can run both Os'es the Macbook Pro is the way to go. If you are primarly going to use Windows only, I would consider another machine.

I use both the Macbook Pro and HP Elitebook and for Windows, the Elitebook is much more usable. I get frustrated with the touchpad on the Mac.

meltemi quote : Replace the 5400 RPM system disk with a 7200 RPM disk.

I totally agree, anyone doing music should have a stable main Hard Drive (WD Western Digital Caviar Black) recommended.
Your hard drive should be running at least 7,200 rpm on up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkvmWyiyeBE


If I may clarify some things, I'm am known to be a PC man, most of my friends who are mostly Apple orchids get to debating about the better computer OS.
One of the first things that most don't know is that Apple computers are prone to viruses as well as windows PC's, more people use Windows than PC so it's more viruses for PC...Dahhh.
http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/apple-quietly-recommends-using-anti-virus-software-612
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090329171427AAdN4S9
If you have a Mac and no virus protection, your door is open and someone will come in. You better get protected fast.

You will have just as many problems running a Apple computer with windows, as you will with a Windows PC running an Apple OS, check Googles.
Both formats will run better in it's native OS, they both have enough problems running natively.

You can run Windows 7 Professional in a XP mode, all software usually ran well in XP. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Make-older-programs-run-in-this-version-of-Windows
Windows 7, is Vista in disguise, striped down with a face lift, and made simple and easer to use.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3155252/windows_7_vs_snow_leopard/
Why pretend, when you could just get the original.
Hop this helps.
& blessings.

[STRATEGY]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

Things change fast in tech. Below are my new recommendations:

1. HP. They have changed their whole game up. I am sure you noticed the Dr. Dre ads. The boards are now grounded and the audio interfaces are night and day better than before. I still have my Lenovo but use my HP Elitebook more and more to produce. Fast, stable and clean.

Do the HP's have onboard ASIO audio? Maybe it's standard for laptops to have that now, but a few years ago it wasn't (like my last Dell).

I know about Asio4All but it has problems with certain combinations.

STRATEGY

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Reggmail

Hard Drive (WD Western Digital Caviar Black) recommended.

Keep an eye on power consumption, especially in a laptop. I prefer Hitachi Travelstar 7K500 2.5" (or 7K320). WD's Scorpio Black (2.5") power consumption is about 10% higher. WD Caviar Black is a 3.5" disk, which does not fit into a laptop.

[Reggmail]

Originally Posted by meltemi

Keep an eye on power consumption, especially in a laptop. I prefer Hitachi Travelstar 7K500 2.5" (or 7K320). WD's Scorpio Black (2.5") power consumption is about 10% higher. WD Caviar Black is a 3.5" disk, which does not fit into a laptop.

Agreed : but through newer technology they are finding ways to minimize battery life and you still have a better performance like a desk top PC, using a 7,200 or 10,000 RPM SATA as apposed to 5,200 or 4,200 drives. http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/33C6A76DF9338B0A86256D34007054C0/$file/Why7200MobileHDDs.pdf ( best of both worlds)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9947310-1.html
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2603
http://www2.dealtime.com/-7200+rpm+laptop+drives
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Glyph-PortaGig-800-7200rpm-Bus-Powered-Pocket-Drive-249973-i1402435.gc
http://www.music123.com/Glyph-PortaGig-800-7200rpm-Bus-Powered-Pocket-Drive-249973-i1402435.Music123#reviews
I also notice Pro Tools as well as most DAW's will recommending using a 7,200 rpm drives for better audio results.
http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/osx/stg/firewire.cfm
Most of my work from my laptop, I would stream from an external ''WD My Book'' 7,200 and it's great.
Eventually I will upgrade my HP lap to a 7,200 rpm.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/48819-6-best-hard-drive-digital-audio-recording

info on SSD's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjCmLJtITK4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96dWOEa4Djs
http://www.nextag.com/ssd-drives/products-html
http://www.techspot.com/review/160-solid-state-drive-roundup/


Although SSD's are coming down in price,
and work is still being done ( getting the bugs/kinks out) SSD will soon be the way to go, but for now, SSD's drives are still to expensive for so little storage.

[BrightSeasonWes]

a buddy (pro photog) just spoiled himself with the top-shelf envy. in his words "its too fast".

im running and HP Pavillion Slimline desktop right now with no upgrades aside from a RAM upgrade from 2 to 4GB and a new 1TB 7200RPM 13MB cache Barracuda HD. this is mommy and daddys computer and im moving out :(

looks like ill be getting either the envy or elitebook.
im using a mix of reason, fruity loops, and pro tools 8 with either an m-audio fastrack pro or presonus fp10 interface. decent amount of plugins, doing mostly live recording (not concerts i just mean not all-digital like midi scores or something.)

thoughts on my best bet between elitebook or envy?

[satellitedog]

This one's a question, not a reply:

HP Elitebooks are way over my budget, so how are the Core 2 Duo HP ProBook and Pavilion series machines?

I won't be using many plugins, virtual instruments, mostly just doing some raw material tracking with microphones, maybe some preproduction mixing. And since I'll be using an EMU 1616M I'll need at least an expresscard slot to hook it up.

My budget is $900-1000 tops.

I'm currently looking at Dell Inspiron and Lenovo Thinkpad Core 2 Duo 2,2GHz machines with 4GB memory and a minimum of 320 GB storage capacity in this pricerange, but since smccarthy speaks so highly about upmarket HPs, I thought I'd ask you folks!

Have spent about 2-3 months now trying to find the best solution...
Trouble is, either the model numbering for my market, or the models supplied might differ from that in America or Germany in most cases. I'm really pissed off about that, as it's virtually impossible to make a safe bet. I don't want to import a laptop that might need warranty repairs...

Also to x another out, I really don't like Mac workspaces.

Helpful advice very welcome! It's really frustrating not being able to start making music because of all the options and trappings...

[rednas]

Ok, there are a lot of names in this topic. But what do we need as producers / live performers?

- At least a 15 inch screen: less would be unhandy in live situations
- A powerful CPU: i5 is the minimum, i7 is preferable
- Good size memory: DDR3 is what we need, but how much depends on the user. I would need at least 8GB of ram, and since I work with big sample libraries, 16 would be even better.
- A 7200 RPM hard drive, probably at least 500GB (depends on user). SSD hard drives are nice, but still freaking expensive.
- We don't care about a good graphic card, but some might need a HDMI output
- Good firewire support

We shouldn't care about: looks. :D (Ok, admitted: in live performances a Macbook Pro looks kinda awesome. )

We should care about: price (we all want to save money to spend it on something else ), speed and stability.


So: what would be the options then?

[zoopdewoop]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

The biggest advantage of the Lenovo's is they ground their boards out like Apple does so you don't get the "power buzz" out of it when its on AC power.

How is this relevant? Shouldn't 100% of people be using USB or FireWire interfaces? The built-in audio's not going to be pro quality in any laptop, even a Mac.

Originally Posted by rednas

- A powerful CPU: i5 is the minimum, i7 is preferable

Dual or quad core? From what I've heard, only software like image processing, video processing and 3D stuff are optimized for quad cores. For audio it's supposed to be better to get the fastest dual core you can get instead of a lower clock speed quad.

SSD hard drives are nice, but still freaking expensive.

Most laptops come with card reader slots now. Does it make sense to buy a big Class 6 SD flash card and jam it in there as an intermediate storage (DAW's temp drive, or with Win7's "ReadyBoost") to avoid hard drive bottlenecks?

- We don't care about a good graphic card, but some might need a HDMI output

Supposedly the Intel chips with integrated graphics suck up the main CPU and memory for the graphics when needed. Does this make external graphics a benefit? Is this a myth or overstated?

[Retrofreak]

Mac Book Pro FTW

[zoopdewoop]

Originally Posted by Retrofreak

Mac Book Pro FTW

Well that's convincing.

[smccarthy945]

A couple points of update:

1. I would take an HP Elitebook over a Thinkpad at this point. Build quality is better. Lenovo is going downhill a little. Either machine is still solid.

2. With the viability of Solid State Hard Drives, the game has officially changed. I would rather spend less on a lower end machine and end up with a Solid State Hard Drive. I threw these things in some laptops and the performance difference is stunning. It makes the laptop run at least 6 times faster - The bottleneck is not on the processor in most cases - its in the hard drives trying to keep up with the DAW.

[scotteza]

smccarthy945, so what exact model would you recommend?

I bought a Dell Vostro 1720, thinking it was a good deal: terrible mistake. It has AC buzz, and the graphics card is on the same IRQ as my Fastrack Ultra 8R, so any time I even move a slider in Ableton its glitches and crackles like mad.

A new laptop that actually works properly with Live 8 would be awesome

[Reggmail]

Lots to chose from out there.

[NaturalBlack]

FWIW I have an HP laptop that has been a rock for me over the last year. And that's running VISTAtutt. I do work day to day in IT though so computer maintenance is never an issue for me.

I do plan on upgrading to windows 7 and getting a nice solid state drive like smmcarthy mentioned, it's a great option and well worth the price. Or maybe an external SSD with an ESATA cable.

Another thing, to speak on the mac book option(Might get one of those too) I know a lot of non techies who have macs that are six or seven years old and run just as well as when they got them. And yes I know anybody who put in the effort could keep a PC running clean to. But fr those who just want something that's gonna work with the least amount of hassle Macs are worth the investment.

[Cicatrix]

It seems that it is almost impossible to find a new laptop these days with a TI firewire chipset. A while ago I had an HP dv9000 that I was planning on using for my home setup. It ran mediocre at best. I decided to sell it and purchase a new laptop from a custom DAW builder. I have been really pleased with my ADK laptop I bought back in 2008. I then got a FireFace UC to take place of an Ultralite and I'm hard pressed to ever even hear a hiccup.With the current firewire chipset issues in laptops these days, I'm curious as to how everyone is working around this problem.

Are you guys switching to USB interfaces?
Are you guys buying Custom DAW laptops?
Are you guys searching out older model laptops that still use TI chip set controllers?

What gives.

[kwazi]

Originally Posted by Cicatrix

It seems that it is almost impossible to find a new laptop these days with a TI firewire chipset. A while ago I had an HP dv9000 that I was planning on using for my home setup. It ran mediocre at best. I decided to sell it and purchase a new laptop from a custom DAW builder. I have been really pleased with my ADK laptop I bought back in 2008. I then got a FireFace UC to take place of an Ultralite and I'm hard pressed to ever even hear a hiccup.With the current firewire chipset issues in laptops these days, I'm curious as to how everyone is working around this problem.

Are you guys switching to USB interfaces?
Are you guys buying Custom DAW laptops?
Are you guys searching out older model laptops that still use TI chip set controllers?

What gives.

I'm interested as well.

[smccarthy945]

Originally Posted by scotteza

smccarthy945, so what exact model would you recommend?

I bought a Dell Vostro 1720, thinking it was a good deal: terrible mistake. It has AC buzz, and the graphics card is on the same IRQ as my Fastrack Ultra 8R, so any time I even move a slider in Ableton its glitches and crackles like mad.

A new laptop that actually works properly with Live 8 would be awesome

HP All the way - Either an HP Elitebook 8000 series or go with the HP envy. I just saw an Envy and man that thing is amazing.

[mintyfreshbeats]

I have had nothing but bad luck with HP laptops.

If you are going with a PC, go with a Thinkpad.

[ozzborn]

I have a Macbook pro. I run win xp sp2, my main issue is that FIREWIRE port does not work.

I done alot of searches and alot of people have this issue.

other than that its great, but the firewireport issue is a big problem.

I have tried 3 usb2 (m-audio, tascam, N.I.) interfaces and the suck as far as latency is concerned.

I want to try RME's new babyface, they usally have the best drivers.

[smccarthy945]

Originally Posted by mintyfreshbeats

I have had nothing but bad luck with HP laptops.

If you are going with a PC, go with a Thinkpad.

It could not have been an EliteBook. The home series is crap. The EliteBooks are the highest quality with the Envy you can get.

You think Dre would put his name on it if it was garbage?

[smccarthy945]

Originally Posted by ozzborn

I have a Macbook pro. I run win xp sp2, my main issue is that FIREWIRE port does not work.

I done alot of searches and alot of people have this issue.

other than that its great, but the firewireport issue is a big problem.

I have tried 3 usb2 (m-audio, tascam, N.I.) interfaces and the suck as far as latency is concerned.

I want to try RME's new babyface, they usally have the best drivers.

Apple hasn't released a bootcamp update to the Windows side in 9 months. They don't care about the Macbooks anymore as most of their revenue is coming from the phones and ipads.

[Cicatrix]

Originally Posted by ozzborn

I have a Macbook pro. I run win xp sp2, my main issue is that FIREWIRE port does not work.

I done alot of searches and alot of people have this issue.

other than that its great, but the firewireport issue is a big problem.

I have tried 3 usb2 (m-audio, tascam, N.I.) interfaces and the suck as far as latency is concerned.

I want to try RME's new babyface, they usally have the best drivers.

I am assuming the Babyface will show performance that's right on par with the Fireface UC. Also, you get the new TotalmixFX with the Babyface that you don't get with the FireFace 400, or the FireFace UC. I believe you can use the new design of TotalmixFX on the UC, but not the actual FX. Not quite sure though.

[mintyfreshbeats]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

It could not have been an EliteBook. The home series is crap. The EliteBooks are the highest quality with the Envy you can get.

You think Dre would put his name on it if it was garbage?

Money talks.

I would never buy a laptop because of who endorsed it, nor would it influence my decision.

In fact, I would be less likely to purchase it.

Thinkpad W510 gets my vote.

[smccarthy945]

Originally Posted by mintyfreshbeats

Money talks.

I would never buy a laptop because of who endorsed it, nor would it influence my decision.

In fact, I would be less likely to purchase it.

Thinkpad W510 gets my vote.

Believe it or not, Dre has standards and theyput serious design and money into the Envy series. Enjoy your Chinesee made piece of crap Lenovo. If you look at the design labs of HP vs Lenovo these days, its almost a joke. Lenovo is barely treading water right now.

[mintyfreshbeats]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

Believe it or not, Dre has standards and theyput serious design and money into the Envy series. Enjoy your Chinesee made piece of crap Lenovo. If you look at the design labs of HP vs Lenovo these days, its almost a joke. Lenovo is barely treading water right now.

Meh.

I prefer the industrial look of a ThinkPad over the HP Envy, which is more of a MacBook Pro style sleekness. ThinkPad's aren't flashy, they are built like tanks (I don't know if you have ever owned one.)

Look at any HP forums or message boards if you want to hear horror stories about the Envy's build quality.

A ThinkPad is synonymous with build quality.

And finally, I don't know what market they are appealing to with this cheesy commercial, but it definitely turned me off:



No dis to Dre, he is a hell of a business man, but this is embarrassing and turns me off from the laptop.

[somuchtolearn]

Originally Posted by audiokaos

SONY.


Toshiba. Never ever had any problems, I used 2 in the past for Audio recording....and they are tough and reliable.

I,d certainly buy another Toshiba again.

My Toshiba satalite pro just commited suicide on me, fried the motherboard, screen flicked mid live set then pffft. I was using it for live performances (Traktor and Ableton) All of which lead me to this thread. I can't have that happen again so I'm off to get a mac book I think