R&B Vocal Stacks and Vocal Chains

[Keyflo]

Hey GS, im starting to work with a singer now, and i need the best way to stack vocals and best R&B vocal chains......Thanx

[frank lyon]

What is your current chain?

[rickrock305]

C800 -> Avalon 737 -> LA2A is pretty common


i also like Manley Reference Gold mic, U67, U87, Elam 251 for mics


also like the Neve 1084, 1081, or 1073


as for compressors, i swap between the 1176 or CL1B or LA2A



all depends on the voice, arrangement, song, how i'm feeling at the time, etc.

[Keyflo]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

C800 -> Avalon 737 -> LA2A is pretty common


i also like Manley Reference Gold mic, U67, U87, Elam 251 for mics


also like the Neve 1084, 1081, or 1073


as for compressors, i swap between the 1176 or CL1B or LA2A



all depends on the voice, arrangement, song, how i'm feeling at the time, etc.

Problem is, that i dont have that. This is what i do with software
Waves Maxx Volume-Waves Rcomp-Waves RenEQ6-Waves True Verb-and Protools Delay(I forget the name).....I record on a GrooveTubes GT 67 witha Mbox2 and protools LE

[PettyCash]

My answer will probably suck, but why dont you just try to think of who she or he sounds the closest to or what sound you are trying to aim for and listen closely to some CDs/MP3s and see what things you can pick up on, and then figure out how to attain that sound. That way you at least narrow it down a bit more and find exactly what you are looking for.

[dhiltonlittle]

are you using the pre and converters in the mbox? you're probably not going to get the sound you are hearing on records if that is the case. i'd say c800g/u87 are the common mic choices. 1073/1084 or avalon 737 are common pre's. and anywhere from 1176/cl1b/la2a/tla100 for comps. converters vary. i use the crane song hedd 192 and love it. i'd say that apogee/lynx/digi 192's are more common.

[Stylo]

I just tracked some R&B vox last night... my vocal chain was as follows

Female R&B vocalist, Rode Classic2 Tube Condensor--> SSL E-G series Console-->LA-2A Inserted into the Channel Path---> PT HD3

I basically layed down a scartch lead vocal track.. then built up all the harmonies... some 4 part, some 3 part, some 5 part... all 4 stacks per harmony.. (better have it and not need it then need it and not have it.).. once the BG vox and harmonies were laid down, I retracked the lead vocal.. and only did ONE lead vocal... the vocals turned out AWESOME and sound delicious as raw vocals...

[solidstate]

In my experience 737>c800g>cl1b work best.

The la2a suck out too much high end and 1176 gives you too much 'in ya face' type of sound. Same thing with neve preamps.

My 2cents

[Keyflo]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

are you using the pre and converters in the mbox? you're probably not going to get the sound you are hearing on records if that is the case. i'd say c800g/u87 are the common mic choices. 1073/1084 or avalon 737 are common pre's. and anywhere from 1176/cl1b/la2a/tla100 for comps. converters vary. i use the crane song hedd 192 and love it. i'd say that apogee/lynx/digi 192's are more common.

Yes i do use the Pre and converters in the Mbox, i will be upgrading to the UAD DSP cards soon so hopefully those will help

[CharlesD]

Originally Posted by Keyflo

Yes i do use the Pre and converters in the Mbox, i will be upgrading to the UAD DSP cards soon so hopefully those will help

Do you realize what you just said?

[crazyindo]

currently using soundeluxe e250 or blue bottle, buzz audio ma 2.2 pre, into thre crane song stc 8 comp/limiter. rarely use the comp on the crane song since i finalize the compression with distressor on the final mix. so far no problem with this setup.

[dhiltonlittle]

Originally Posted by crazyindo

currently using soundeluxe e250 or blue bottle, buzz audio ma 2.2 pre, into thre crane song stc 8 comp/limiter. rarely use the comp on the crane song since i finalize the compression with distressor on the final mix. so far no problem with this setup.

what are you using the stc-8 for ???

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

what are you using the stc-8 for ???

'Cause it's expensive and fancy so as to impress clients LOL

[solidstate]

Originally Posted by Keyflo

Yes i do use the Pre and converters in the Mbox, i will be upgrading to the UAD DSP cards soon so hopefully those will help

dude..i think you're a BIT confused

Bottom line, like someone said, you can't the commercial sound with the mbox thing!! You need to buy AT LEAST a decent mic comp and preamp

[phillysoulman]

Lately Ive been going back to my AKG 414 into a Focusrite pre.
Sometimes Ill us an ADK TL and the Focusrite.

I usually have a URS Pro, a UAD Fairchild, and an API eq in my vocal chain on my aux in and then bus to my indvidual tracks from there.

Of course, I will tailor my input plugs to taste according to the performer.

I also have a similar eq/comp on my vocal tracks which are bussed to aux returns set up with several Alti Verb instances,maybe a UAD Plate 140,two delay lines,maybe Waves Super Tap, a Waves Doubler and PSP 84.

[Keyflo]

Originally Posted by solidstate

dude..i think you're a BIT confused

Bottom line, like someone said, you can't the commercial sound with the mbox thing!! You need to buy AT LEAST a decent mic comp and preamp

Naw i dont think so, some one asked me if i was using the pres and converters in the Mbox. i answered yes........The only reason why i said i will be upgrading soon to the UAD dsp is because my current chain sucks, its all wave plugins.....Atleast with the UAD plugins they have the emulated NEVE, Fairchild and LA-2a, and pultec EQ, which is basically what i would like to use since i cant afford the actual hardware.......BTW from what i heard, those plugins are the only plugins which accuratley emulates actual hardware stuff....

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by Keyflo

Yes i do use the Pre and converters in the Mbox, i will be upgrading to the UAD DSP cards soon so hopefully those will help

Onnnnee of these ainn'tt like the ootherrrrrr!!

[coyotekells]

U don't need more plugs dude.. everyone's laughing cause you're not changing your recording chain with the UAD.

u asked about the chain, and rightfully so.. that's what's needs and upgrade.

YOU NEED:

a good mic, a good pre, and it would also be good idea to add a good comp and a2d convertor.

welcome to $10,000+

UAD will not make up for lacking in that area (although yes, they are great plugs)

[dhiltonlittle]

what is you're budget? i agree with the other post in that more plugins is not your best investment to improving your vocal chain. i own damn near every plugin and i can safely say that not one of them has made as big of an improvement in quality as a nicer mic/nicer pre/nicer converter. the digi plugins are actually damn good and you own some of the waves plugs too. for vocal stacking you could get into something like a peluso vtb for the price of a uad card. but then you still got the digi pre.....build slowly and just enjoy making music!

[solidstate]

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

YOU NEED:

a good mic, a good pre, and it would also be good idea to add a good comp and a2d convertor.

welcome to $10,000+

UAD will not make up for lacking in that area (although yes, they are great plugs)

+1.. i agree!

[Edge]

you can get the sound with your mbox but it's going to take work, its going to take a great singer, and great engineering, if your serious about the song you may consider renting a class A studio with a engineer, This will let you focus on your role as a producer, at the same time you can study some tricks and ask questions to learn how to get the sound you are looking for.

I like this article on mixing R&B vocals
JAREDGosselin

[wildpark]

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

U don't need more plugs dude.. everyone's laughing cause you're not changing your recording chain with the UAD.

u asked about the chain, and rightfully so.. that's what's needs and upgrade.

YOU NEED:

a good mic, a good pre, and it would also be good idea to add a good comp and a2d convertor.

welcome to $10,000+

UAD will not make up for lacking in that area (although yes, they are great plugs)

that the same what will writing and ......

he need a mbox bla mod faaasssst or use another

daw software with meaby a channelstrip (there are some nice ones in ebay now just watch out)

and then the performance is the biggest part i recordet the last rnb vocals 10 hr a day

too make one track fat.

[crazyindo]

I use the STC 8 for compressing and limiting. Most of the time for limiting during tracking since I dont compress during tracking. Yes it is expensive but most clients here dont really notice it unless it's got avalon written on the panel . I also use a distressor sometimes for comping vocal tracking.

[Micah Tolentino]

k Imma about to save you about 8k.

Spend as MUCH AS YOU CAN on a good pre. Im talking at LEAST 700$ and up to 3K. UA, BA, GR, pac... etc.

A good pre will make even the worlds crappiest mic sound listenable.

Listen to "He needs Me" on my page. I recorded her on a great pre and not so great mic and got great results that the artist was very happy with. Shoot, I've had rappers cut records on a plain old Beta 58.

So if you want results start with a PRE first and work your way backwards from there. Then Mic, then converters, compressors, etc. In fact you dont even need to compress on the way in if you have a trained vocalist that can even out her transients. Lower the gain also, we're talking about 24 bit here right? You've got the headroom.

Also, Plugs cannot replace pres. EQ's and Comps, yes and pretty good.. but not pres.

-M1

[ssl_ambition]

Originally Posted by solidstate

In my experience 737>c800g>cl1b work best.

So, you sung into the compressor first?
Just kiddin`

[tonymission]

Bro --

your chain doesnt suck because you arent using UAD, it sucks because it sucks... :P

why you using MAXXX VOLUME?!

cant hear the take? just turn down the instrumental then.

ive used ONLY a renEQ into a renCOMP with the group bussed to some reverb for cats like Fab and Blood Raw... They aren't RNB singers, but come on... dont make shit hard on yourself.

[kriscain]

when it comes to tracking vocals... your gonna have to bite the bullet and upgrade.

[shach7]

Originally Posted by Micah Tolentino

k Imma about to save you about 8k.

Spend as MUCH AS YOU CAN on a good pre. Im talking at LEAST 700$ and up to 3K. UA, BA, GR, pac... etc.

A good pre will make even the worlds crappiest mic sound listenable.

Listen to "He needs Me" on my page. I recorded her on a great pre and not so great mic and got great results that the artist was very happy with. Shoot, I've had rappers cut records on a plain old Beta 58.

So if you want results start with a PRE first and work your way backwards from there. Then Mic, then converters, compressors, etc. In fact you dont even need to compress on the way in if you have a trained vocalist that can even out her transients. Lower the gain also, we're talking about 24 bit here right? You've got the headroom.

Also, Plugs cannot replace pres. EQ's and Comps, yes and pretty good.. but not pres.

-M1

Hi Micah, Can you give me a few examples of some good pre-amps? Is the Apogee Duet any good or is this too basic to get the pro sound?

[FadersmakmeHappy]

Spring for an avalon 737. I am not a huge fan of the opto comp, but for knocking down the peaks it works just fine. Very clean with a great pre and a recognizable name for your studio.

[Keyflo]

Originally Posted by FadersmakmeHappy

Spring for an avalon 737. I am not a huge fan of the opto comp, but for knocking down the peaks it works just fine. Very clean with a great pre and a recognizable name for your studio.

this thread is years past lol, i bought the 737 and btw, I also bought my UAD yeah so im sitting good in the neighborhood. thinking about getting a distressor