How to make beats like Rakim's - Juice

[marcuscw]

and i dont mean make a similar beat, but i mean starting off with a dope bassline and than finding samples that fit. for those who dont know the track check it out:

YouTube - Eric B. & Rakim - Juice (Know The Ledge)

when listening to the track i really wonder how they worked. for instance the flute sample in it. he obviously started with the bassline, but than he had to dig and dig untill he found a sample with the same tempo and the same pitch. wouldnt that take like days? findin a sample in the same pitch ok, or same tempo ok, but a lot of the samples in it are the same pitch AND the same tempo. How do you think they worked? What is the best approach to creating a beat like that? Right now i got a bassline, and i just go through my records untill i find a sound that i like, sample it, pitch it to the right note, and see if it works. but in the Juice track they have like 10 diffirent samples that all sound great on that bassline, that would take me days :s any knowlegde on this?

[viewingstuff]

'DJ before producer' - Every great Hip-Hop producer was one of these first.

I've been making beats since '88 and remember this song fondly. You always always always play old records over what you've got looping on your sampler. That's how 98% of all the best Hip-Hop (at least from the 'Juice' era) was made!

Scratching or just beat matching a record won't ruin it if you do it gently and with minimal tone-arm weight. I'm scratching Rufus Thomas, James Brown, frickin' Boney M all over my beats until something pops. And trust me, when it 'pops', you'll know it because you're body will already be doing the funky chicken(rufus).

You'd be amazed how records fit together like divine pieces of a puzzle(and how some records don't!). In all honesty, the songs producer(was it Large Pro? i can't remember) might have taken the flute sample from the same song he got the bass line but could have easily found it somewhere else. Instead of digging for a sample and going through the process of sampling and chopping it based on speculation, use your record player to audition stuff in real time. This gives you enormous power and opens you up to a plethora of dope ideas. A plethora.

Stay on your turntable and don't be afraid to get your records dirty(you have them for this purpose so don't be shy, get in there! I know I don't dig for old records just to admire them that's for sure). One!

[marcuscw]

great knowledge! and it really makes a lot of sense too! when listening to those tracks a lot of times it sounds more like 2 records mixed than a sample on top of a beat. So i'm gonna get my records dirty ! thnx!

[terrytee]

Not sure bout no the leadge but it's not disimler to this



Which is basically a chop from Queen of the nile (2 around 2.17 - 2.24) along with some other stuff? (may contain parts of the break on same LP wah wah) now considering that the Rakims Rhyme style is based on the saxophone, r used to play the sax when he was younger, he would most likely has mad jazz records.

Peep Game




Wah Wah Wah http
07 wah wah man.m4a - 3.51MB

Queen of the nile
08 queen of the nile.m4a - 3.68MBcb05e5eac2bd88b01914ab39d56a4ed4


P.S. sorry bout zshare but GS upload failed on me

[marcuscw]

nice one! dont sweat the technique is indeed quite simliar to the Juice track. i didnt know he played the sax, i read on another board that he also played the drums. i love the extra stuff they added to the bassline, those horns really give it that feeling i like. You think he got it off jazz records? Charlie Parker stuff? The extra stuff he uses sounds so raw and minor while the stuff I find is mostly happy major key stuff :s like the guitar thingy on YouTube - Eric B & Rakim - Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em , it's so aggressive! and the horns on Juice. i love the vibe.

[terrytee]

Just so my post makes more sense to your question, am suggesting that the foundation of the track was built up from the Queen of the nile sample/chop.

[terrytee]

Originally Posted by marcuscw

nice one! dont sweat the technique is indeed quite simliar to the Juice track. i didnt know he played the sax, i read on another board that he also played the drums. i love the extra stuff they added to the bassline, those horns really give it that feeling i like. You think he got it off jazz records? Charlie Parker stuff? The extra stuff he uses sounds so raw and minor while the stuff I find is mostly happy major key stuff :s like the guitar thingy on YouTube - Eric B & Rakim - Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em , it's so aggressive! and the horns on Juice. i love the vibe.

Just a guess that he will own jazz records like the young holt in picture but i think once the foundation of a track like that is laid the rest should be quite straight forward, you would just need to digg for the right stuff, i mean if your using vinyl for that sax just go through records playing over the beat until you find the one but ultimately if you were to make such a beat it maybe more straight forward to record a real sax over it, just as long as you already have the idea in your head.

IMHO Once you have a solid fodation for any piece of music the most important half of the composing is done & you should never be in a rush to find the extras, take your time until you get in right.

[beat you down]

go through whole songs...
collect ALL the dope stuff not just the break or whatever, usually there's more than just the break.
if you take all your samples from one song, for a particular beat, you know it'll fit key wise etc.

if you have to mix/pick from various sources...
start with the least flexible part, for instance... picking drums to a loop or chop is easier than the other way around.

also, various sources/songs...
make sure you now your whole collection by heart.
from there on pitch shifting and time stretching are your buddies.
also tho make things easier...look for stuff with no drums...

don't sweat... drums and horns/sax are from "give it up" by kool & the gang.
YouTube - Kool and the Gang "Give It Up"

let the rhythm... guitar loop is from "night on bald mountain" by bob james... it has no drums so it's easy to fit it in somewhere.

[viewingstuff]

The sax parts and horn section are Kool & The Gang's Give it up
Kool & The Gang? Ya, not a bad place to start if you're looking for horns(!)

The sax and flute solos from their song N.T.?......probably sampled more than 'Nautilus'

Chill Rob G - Let Me Show You(Pasemaster Mase Remix)
Diamond D - Best Kept Secret
Nas - It Ain't Hard to Tell
Main Source - Fakin' The Funk
Various 45 King joints (doesn't use N.T. but 45 King is the king of horns and I miss having this tape back in the day)

[terrytee]

the back packers are in full effect now

[viewingstuff]

LOL!

[computa]

Is this a real question?

sounds like somebody is pullin people's chains and they divin' in head first

way too analytical about making beats from back then. it wasnt that calculated. There wasnt even the tools around back then to sit there and get super complex. Just find some loops that go together and make sure your drums hit.

[terrytee]

Originally Posted by computa

Is this a real question?

sounds like somebody is pullin people's chains and they divin' in head first

Think it a genuine question, look at his other posts, the only reason i have put my 2bits in is because i noticed the don't sweat sample when i was just listening to the young holt last month and i felt like being big headed, & no i wasn't looking for samples i was just chilling out listening to old music.

I agree shit shouldn't be so calculated IMHO you shouldn't take a sample like that unless it sticks out to you like a swore thumb, thats the only way it going be dope. But unfortunately because of the internet every wannabe new jack back pack producer has catalogued all the used samples & breaks memorized them and then claimed that the are hip-hop because they have spent far to much time and money trawling ebay & reading blogs on Paul C, claiming he has always been the greatest producer of all time, when they never heard of the kid since last week.

Maybe the death of east coast sample hip-hop was due too many cooks spoil the broth syndrome. Last week some nerdy arse hole started telling me that the Rza an't shit & his beats are wac just cause he uses a lot of loops & that he ain't shit to mad lib, (who never just loops up records with no chops or beats right???), this guy also said that kool G rap & the Geto boys weren't real hip-hop (maybe cause the sold over gold & were to thuged out for his gay ways). Making this kind of hip-hop is easy if your ear is that way inclined & your a B-Boy. (too many new jacks are a far way from having a b-boys stance )

[Methlab]

I LOVE this track. What a record..damn that is real hip hop right there.

I dont see how it takes more skill to bang on an 808 with the same patterns and play really basic melodies on a synth. I think this beat still destroys almost anything being made right now.

[cynic one]

Originally Posted by Methlab

I LOVE this track. What a record..damn that is real hip hop right there.

I dont see how it takes more skill to bang on an 808 with the same patterns and play really basic melodies on a synth. I think this beat still destroys almost anything being made right now.

thumbsup

some real b-boy shit. makes me wanna uprock.

[PolowDaDon]

Originally Posted by Methlab

I LOVE this track. What a record..damn that is real hip hop right there.

I dont see how it takes more skill to bang on an 808 with the same patterns and play really basic melodies on a synth. I think this beat still destroys almost anything being made right now.

You have to be joking that rubbish takes no talent what so ever.

Now using a steve jobs special with an 808 is a different story all together... thats true skill

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by PolowDaDon

You have to be joking that rubbish takes no talent what so ever.

Now using a steve jobs special with an 808 is a different story all together... thats true skill

Lol..this is a good troll account. Nicely played.

[IM WHO YOU THINK]

Originally Posted by Methlab

I LOVE this track. What a record..damn that is real hip hop right there.

I dont see how it takes more skill to bang on an 808 with the same patterns and play really basic melodies on a synth. I think this beat still destroys almost anything being made right now.

I'd take Mantronix over this.

LOL But I'd like to see people doing this make a come back

[terrytee]

Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK

I'd take Mantronix over this.

BTW last i heard (or according to mc serch) MC Tee is now repping the meter maid job hard in NYC (lets face it an MC like that will never be in the R's league.)
o.K. Am sure if you put up the scratch he would be more than happy to leave the job 4 u.

P.S. according to secret sources Just Ice ****-in hated the back 2 old school LP, i think the mantronix beats may have been just a little to straight for a lot of those new york heads

[IM WHO YOU THINK]

Originally Posted by terrytee

BTW last i heard (or according to mc serch) MC Tee is now repping the meter maid job hard in NYC (lets face it an MC like that will never be in the R's league.)
o.K. Am sure if you put up the scratch he would be more than happy to leave the job 4 u.

P.S. according to secret sources Just Ice ****-in hated the back 2 old school LP, i think the mantronix beats may have been just a little to straight for a lot of those new york heads

Well I didn't mention Tee. LOL I liked Mantronix but he could have left Tee at home.

I never said he was in Rakim's league but honestly when he drops, I don't see Rakim selling too many records today either. He's a great MC because he was the innovator of what a bunch of rappers imitated, but I've ALWAYS thought KRS was better.

But hey I was one of the few who thought G Rap was better than Kane.


As much as I'm a fan of his (And I'm one of the die hards). Rakim bores me when I listen to him today. His last record did absolutely nothing for me.

[terrytee]

I think Rakims LP drop on 4th last month, but MC's are a lot more physically than producers and they definitely have a shelf life.

I never really did all that who's better shit, they were all hot, but Kris still sounds relevant criminal mind 08 was dope IMO. All those cats G rap Kane were incredible & i still play most of those LP from 87 & 88 each week, not cause am being nostalgic just cause they still sound hot, all for very different reasons.

The only thing i can say about whose better than who is JayZ, if you list all the ppl he's bitten over the years from Slick Rick to Nas & even doing B.I.G., Rakim & Big L it seems a bit lame, When i here those lines it like listening to finger nails being pulled down a chalk board.

Before ppl diss me bout jay i will say this i was a fan, & maybe still am, but there became a point when he sounded like he was just going through the motions.

**** it I much prefer Cassidy to Jay now these days, he's a very underrated MC. Although Big L was the last great from NYC IMHO

[terrytee]

BTW Kris is still fresh for 2008 but i don't think it will sell to much just as long as it will sell to the right ppl.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by terrytee

...The only thing i can say about whose better than who is JayZ, if you list all the ppl he's bitten over the years from Slick Rick to Nas & even doing B.I.G., Rakim & Big L it seems a bit lame, When i here those lines it like listening to finger nails being pulled down a chalk board...

YouTube - F*ck Jay-Z

i know what you mean, a few lines to pay hommage to one of your idols is cool, but the amount of lines jay 'borrowed' is ridiculous.

[terrytee]

Its not on is it... when i got the R & L lines it really cut me up..... very sad

[viewingstuff]

You did not just say Buckshot! I don't know about Rakim still sounding fresh but Buckshot will sound fresh 1000 years from now! Come to think of it, he and KRS are two of the few rappers who to this day give me goosebumps(also M.O.P.). Buckshot could kill millions still if he ever got that chance(come on Dre!...Oh what's that Dre? You're too busy working out and putting off other projects? Oh I completely understand please forgive me!).

I give props to Jay for writing all his rhymes in his head like Biggie did but damn those are some serious munchies! I'm old school so I totally dig the tribute element because it makes me feel old school Hip-Hop is still relevant but he should close the Biggie catalogue for real.

Jay's turn

[terrytee]

& the lesson here is the guys that get jacked write there own ish

Oh BTW did anyone hear bout the Buckshot & 2Pac LP they did together maybe it will get put out some day.

[IM WHO YOU THINK]

Originally Posted by terrytee

& the lesson here is the guys that get jacked write there own ish

Oh BTW did anyone hear bout the Buckshot & 2Pac LP they did together maybe it will get put out some day.

I feel what you're saying but It's a bit different with Jay. That dude could rap. I look at his career and think he was doing what it took to make the most dough. Priority was pushing the dudes making the most indi money (NWA, No limit), so Jigga went that direction. When other cats in NY were stuck in their own lane, Jay would make his albums more southern feeling with tracks/slang at times to appeal. I can almost guarantee, When Jay did "give it to me". He had heard the Mystical single and asked for a beat just like "Shake it fast." If you go listen to both songs they are very similar. I was on Mystikal's label at the time. His single was tearing up radio and not long thereafter there was a Jigga single sounding like it. The dude has done what it took to be the most commercial. But at the end of the day from a rappers point of view the dude can rap.


Did you know Slim? That was one of the realest cats you'll ever meet in music as a person. Dude was solid. He was like family to me.

[terrytee]

Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK

I feel what you're saying but It's a bit different with Jay. That dude could rap. I look at his career and think he was doing what it took to make the most dough. Priority was pushing the dudes making the most indi money (NWA, No limit), so Jigga went that direction. When other cats in NY were stuck in their own lane, Jay would make his albums more southern feeling with tracks/slang at times to appeal. I can almost guarantee, When Jay did "give it to me". He had heard the Mystical single and asked for a beat just like "Shake it fast." If you go listen to both songs they are very similar. I was on Mystikal's label at the time. His single was tearing up radio and not long thereafter there was a Jigga single sounding like it. The dude has done what it took to be the most commercial. But at the end of the day from a rappers point of view the dude can rap.


Did you know Slim? That was one of the realest cats you'll ever meet in music as a person. Dude was solid. He was like family to me.

Yeah i can't dispute that Jay can rap he's made some great records, this kind of makes the whole line thing a bit more disapointing for me, & making beats and writing raps are two total different things, i guess with some of the raps i get the feeling he felt like he was going through the motions at a certain point.

As for slim my love & condolences go out to all his family, both blood & work related.
Being in a completely different country to slim i never knew him but that didn't stop me from loving his work. In my book Slim was a outstanding artist who brought some of the rawest hip-hop to mic i can think of. He is in my playlist till the day i die & will be sorely missed but never forgotten.