synths and drum machines directly into the computer?

[spunkadellic]

I am working mostly at home now, and dont have as much access to studios as I used to

that said

----

I do all my sequencing in logic with apogee converters.

I use mostly outboard synths and drum machines/samplers, and then plug them directly line in to the apogee

Is it THAT much of a difference to run them through mic pres and compressors before the computer???

I of course want my sounds to be big, and punch through the mix

Are pres really important???

[T. Gundersen]

I use a Tube-Tech MP1A for tracking synths and the MOTIF through now. When I first started doing it, I retracked a track I had done already, and the difference was definatly noticeable. It seems to blend better/have better definition and more punch.. I have a hard time explaining what I mean really, but I like what the method does.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by spunkadellic

Is it THAT much of a difference to run them through mic pres and compressors before the computer???

Yes

[Rumpel]

Not to Hijack, but to add to this question,

Does anybody have any idea how good pres are on the Control 24 for that task? I've heard people say that the focusrite pres aren't so good. If they aren't up to the job has anyone got any ideas on a good pre for warming/ fattening a motif, MPC etc?
At the moment I use the Control 24 pres for the synths, and sometimes I strap an Avalon 747 as an insert in protools across stereo tracks, and run the Kicks and snares through a couple of DBX 160x's

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Rumpel

I've heard people say that the focusrite pres aren't so good.

They aren't.

A little note: unless I'm in the mix, I don't use PT inserts (even then, I'll print the effect insert to a new track and nudge it into place). Track with a straight forward and high quality record chain and even the raw tracks, without a mix, will sound better: more clarity, definition, punch, depth, etc. and (as T.Gundersen mentioned) the tracks will stack better in the mix.

If you REALLY want some nice color, get an external DI like a Fearn, evil twin or Manley and run that signal into a nice mic pre.
For Samplers, drum machines and keyboards: I've been using a Manley tube DI->Melcor1731/API312->AD-8000 and it sounds very competitive with other professional recordings...even without dynamic control...
...as long as you don't destroy the mix

[Rumpel]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

They aren't.

A little note: unless I'm in the mix, I don't use PT inserts (even then, I'll print the effect insert to a new track and nudge it into place). Track with a straight forward and high quality record chain and even the raw tracks, without a mix, will sound better: more clarity, definition, punch, depth, etc. and (as T.Gundersen mentioned) the tracks will stack better in the mix.

If you REALLY want some nice color, get an external DI like a Fearn, evil twin or Manley and run that signal into a nice mic pre.
For Samplers, drum machines and keyboards: I've been using a Manley tube DI->Melcor1731/API312->AD-8000 and it sounds very competitive with other professional recordings...even without dynamic control...
...as long as you don't destroy the mix

Thanks for that knowledge, I think I'll definitely go out and get a decent pre for my synths based on that info.
At the moment I'm running vocals into an Avalon 737( I know that a lot of people hate on them)I'll probably upgrade my main mic from an AKG solid tube to a sony C800G also,
but I'm very curious about your issue with the PT inserts.
Yes, I only use it at mixdown with delay compensation turned on. Isn't that supposed to compensate for latency so that you wouldn't need to print the track and nudge it around?

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Rumpel

Thanks for that knowledge, I think I'll definitely go out and get a decent pre for my synths based on that info.
At the moment I'm running vocals into an Avalon 737( I know that a lot of people hate on them)I'll probably upgrade my main mic from an AKG solid tube to a sony C800G also,
but I'm very curious about your issue with the PT inserts.
Yes, I only use it at mixdown with delay compensation turned on. Isn't that supposed to compensate for latency so that you wouldn't need to print the track and nudge it around?

I don't use inserts in the DAW because I don't want extra conversion in the chain. If you print a Mix, your recordings are already going through three sets of conversion (AD->DA->AD).
If you use inserts to outboard hardware in PT, you are adding 2 more steps to that conversion process. Unlike some, I don't believe that extra converter noise is a good thing in my mixes.
Although I will print inserts at times, it is very rare at all that I even use hardware inserts.
I know from experience that if you take your time from the beginning and do it right, tricks like: outboard inserts, parallel processing and the like are not as necessary to get a great sounding final mix.

at least try a good pre and DI and see what you think. There are many flavors out there right now.

The thing about the 737 micpre (not the comp or eq) is it has very little character to speak of...
If you want punch, try an API. If you want lush, try a Neve. If you want HiFi, try Millennia, Forsell or GML. If you want vintage warm, try telefunken/TAB/Siemens or Neumann micpres, If you want trashy, try mackie or even something cool like an old Altec or ADM. If you want run of the mill but better than joe schmoe, try the Focusrite ISA's or your Avalon.

I use the API/Melcor 312 because mostly what I dump off my sampler is drums. I'll use a tubepre for bass and vocals, a clean transformer based pre for highhats, brass, guitar, etc. But the API have a mid freq thrust that punches nicely...especially for kick and snare.

All said and done, if this was my first highend piece, I'd get an API.
They are very versatile.

Personally, I use a separate DI for flavor factor.
Soon I'll be figuring out a way to get this...

[Rumpel]

Ok, I get you. You're right, I sold the Focusrite 430 to get the Avalon because I couldn't really hear what it was doing to the signal, and I like the Avalon just a little bit better.

I was thinking of picking up the API a2D to run my synths through just to get me started. Thanks very much for the benefit of your experience.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Rumpel

Ok, I get you. You're right, I sold the Focusrite 430 to get the Avalon because I couldn't really hear what it was doing to the signal, and I like the Avalon just a little bit better.

I was thinking of picking up the API a2D to run my synths through just to get me started. Thanks very much for the benefit of your experience.

That sounds like a good piece...
you should come back to your thread and
pass on some user comments. I've never tried that particular piece.

Glad my ramblings made sense for you

on a side note to spunkadellic: MY BAD for the hyjack of your thread.
Tho I think that what I was saying is right along the lines of what you asked.

[Rumpel]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

That sounds like a good piece...
you should come back to your thread and
pass on some user comments. I've never tried that particular piece.

I'll do that. Thanks