Hey Jules-What about a R&B/Hip Hop Forum?

[M2E]

I know, I know. Alot of you guys do rock music or Rock/Pop or even country. But I have yet to see a dedicated R&B/Hip Hop Forum for producers or mixers of that realm. I do that myself and when mixing I'm finding out alot more that, mixing R&B is way different than mixing rock or pop.
R&B has way more bottom end than rock and I'm not even going to talk about Hip Hop's bottom end.
There's alot of other things as well. It would be great to see one come about here at the Gearslutz.
So what you would do in Rock mixes would not work in R&B nor Hip Hop most of the time but there are tips that I grab from here that make me think of how I could use that in R&B/Hip Hop.

What do you think guys?

Jules, any room for one more Forum?

M2E

[bigbaby987]

m2e!!!! i'm feeling your work man!! i would love to talk to you sometime...(the usual what's what's talk huh?) well, i'm r&b and hip cat that's gone gospel. (new minister) but i would love to work with you on some stuff. i really love the heather stuff!!! that's really nice!!! if you don't mind, it would be nice to rap with you.

btw jules. i would love to see some type of musical element also. i think that it's atleast 50/50 when it comes to engineers and musicians on this board. keys and stuff like that would fit into gear right? thanks man




God Bless.
bigbaby!

[TonyBelmont]

I like the idea of a forum geared towards the hip hop/ r&b engineer. There are some really crappy forums that cater to hip hop production, but it's really low level talk about Acid and Reason, and whatever other hacked program people downloaded on their PC. As long as the forum centered on recording techniques, outboard gear, etc... and not "I just got an MPC2000, how do I make beats"..

[grouphome]

thumbsup
Yeah good Idea!

[jazzius II]

Why ghetto-ize?

[redroom]

Why don't we have a bad salad forum as well while we are at it

[Mike O]

I don't know. How about a jazz and alt country forum as well? And then split the jazz forum into acoustic vs electric. Oh yeah, we'll need a classical forum too.

I really would not like to see the forums split by musical genre. I really like reading what people working different from me do, including R&B, reap, HipHop, etc.

Something to learn from everyone and everything.

[bigbaby987]

why does it have to be ghetto? i respect jazz just like i do r&b just like i do country just like i do gospel just like i do classical and so on. why does it have to be ghetto? huh jazzy? why?

[eskay]

Please, not a hip-hop forum.......
Then we should have one for electronic music, which I prefer....than one for ethnic and world music.....one for classical.

dfegad

I'm sick an tired of all the attention that hip hop gets......what's to figure out!!!!

[Mike O]

Originally posted by bigbaby987
i respect jazz just like i do r&b just like i do country just like i do gospel just like i do classical and so on.

Why the vote to split then?

Edited for clarity of intent.

[Jules]

Not a full time forum and I cant give away too much about it right now but keep your fingaz crossed I have something up my sleve for you guyz soon!

[jazzius II]

Originally posted by Jules
Not a full time forum and I cant give away too much about it right now but keep your fingaz crossed I have something up my sleve for you guyz soon!

Bobmix as guest moderator?

[M2E]

first thanx Bigbaby987 for your comments. You can ask me anything at anytime here or you can PM me.

Tony Belmont- That's what I meant. A forum geared for the R&B/Hip Hop engineer/mixer. Not just talk about how many Akai disk I have type of crap.

Jazzius II- Why would that be ghetto-ized? Please explain.

Redroom/Mike-O- Sorry, I didn't mean break up by style of music. That was wrong to say if I came off that way.

Eskay- Your sick and tired of the attention Hip Hop gets? Why is that. Were you sick and tired of the attention Rock had gotten for let's say 55 years. Or country for 60 years. What a wack statment. fuuck

Anyway- What I meant was a forum for the R&B/Hip Hop engineer/mixer.

Thanx
M2E

[redroom]

M2E Im all kidding around with the bad salad comment and I can say that I have learned much from hiphop and incorporated many of it's production values into my own works.Also coming from a classical then electronic and then DnB background and ending up producing mainly rock and indie I can appreciate the whole scene. Even if I do feel it is being rammed down my throat a bit to much these days I still love some of the creative vibes going on and the use of sounds.

[digiman]

M2E - Great Suggestion. There are distinct differences in the engineering and production of R&B/Hip Hop vs. Rock or Jazz. Particularly when you consider a lot of R&B/Hip Hop relies on drum tracks that dominate (if not overpower) the song and lush superstacked vocals that almost serve as chords in the song. In addition, there is also sprinkles of sampled sound effects and a synth lead here and there to keep it interesting. Mixing this kind of track is much different from working with live instruments. The challenge that we have as R&B/Hip Hop engineers is to take all o the aforementioned elements and make them sound as is they are a band. Now you could argue that we might be better off just getting a real band. But I would say the way I program my MPC drum sounds, Tama or Gretch could never compete from a live standpoint.

So M2E, let's make it happen. But I agree, there's got to be some kind of way to keeping this from getting to the Acid/Reason/FruityLoops types who want to "make beats".

DigiMan

[jlotto]

Originally posted by jazzius II
Why ghetto-ize?

Please explain why it has to be ghetto-ize? Do not Suburbans buy & record hip hop/r&b?

People's predjudices aside- Hip hop/r&b is the most popular music on the planet at the present time and has been for the past number of years. It has been incorporated into rock, gospel, pop, jazz, and every other type of music.

There are just as many or more working engineers in today's studios doing hip hop & r&b than any other genre. The engineering techniques are decidely different as well as the uses of outboard. SSL 4000/9000 etc. You can get a proper mix in the box as well or buss out all mixes thru the SSL just as you would a dangerous 2buss.

Now for those of you who are harking back to hip hop and r&b in the 1980's this is not what I am talking about (not the dirty, grimey sound that engineers thought hip hop was supposed to be). Listen to the hip hop/r&b of the past 12 or so years- Dr. Dre, 50 Cent, Eminem, Jay-Z, Outkast, Nas, P. Diddy, Roots, Beyonce, Ashanti, Tupac, BIG, Timbaland, Missy, Jadakiss, Neptunes, Lil Jon, & all the many hybrid acts like Kid Rock, Limp Bizkit, etc.

All this stuff is very clear, clean, & on point sonically and done by some of today's best engineers and best selling artists.

[jazzius II]

Originally posted by jlotto
Please explain why it has to be ghetto-ize? Do not Suburbans buy & record hip hop/r&b?

People's predjudices aside- Hip hop/r&b is the most popular music on the planet at the present time and has been for the past number of years. It has been incorporated into rock, gospel, pop, jazz, and every other type of music.

There are just as many or more working engineers in today's studios doing hip hop & r&b than any other genre. The engineering techniques are decidely different as well as the uses of outboard. SSL 4000/9000 etc. You can get a proper mix in the box as well or buss out all mixes thru the SSL just as you would a dangerous 2buss.

Now for those of you who are harking back to hip hop and r&b in the 1980's this is not what I am talking about (not the dirty, grimey sound that engineers thought hip hop was supposed to be). Listen to the hip hop/r&b of the past 12 or so years- Dr. Dre, 50 Cent, Eminem, Jay-Z, Outkast, Nas, P. Diddy, Roots, Beyonce, Ashanti, Tupac, BIG, Timbaland, Missy, Jadakiss, Neptunes, Lil Jon, & all the many hybrid acts like Kid Rock, Limp Bizkit, etc.

All this stuff is very clear, clean, & on point sonically and done by some of today's best engineers and best selling artists.

This reminds of something i saw in a film once:

A: You philistine!

B: Whadayamean?.....i ain't from Philly!

[chickenbop]

I wish hip-hop would die and go away.I know it won't though.It's the final frontier as far as the lack of musicality in music.It's all style,no substance.
All producer crap,no artist.

Bling bling!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by digiman
M2E - Particularly when you consider a lot of R&B/Hip Hop relies on drum tracks that dominate (if not overpower) the song and lush superstacked vocals that almost serve as chords in the song. In addition, there is also sprinkles of sampled sound effects and a synth lead here and there to keep it interesting. Mixing this kind of track is much different from working with live instruments. The challenge that we have as R&B/Hip Hop engineers is to take all o the aforementioned elements and make them sound as is they are a band.

DigiMan

Its actually more similar than you think.

Most of the modern rock is simple arrangements with not too many instruments but with stacked vocals.

A lot of the tracks are isolated and its up to the engineer to make them sound as a whole, basically to make them gel.

The best rock records have a great bottomn end and punchy drums.

Also the vocals are clear and wide.

I think both genres can learn from each other if they are wise.

[Mazaga]

"I think both genres can learn from each other if they are wise."

Aerosmith is a good example of that
M.

[Mike O]

Originally posted by M2E
Tony Belmont- That's what I meant. A forum geared for the R&B/Hip Hop engineer/mixer. Not just talk about how many Akai disk I have type of crap.

Redroom/Mike-O- Sorry, I didn't mean break up by style of music. That was wrong to say if I came off that way.

Anyway- What I meant was a forum for the R&B/Hip Hop engineer/mixer.
M2E

First you say "a forum geared for the R&B/Hip Hop engineer/mixer", then you say in response to my message "sorry I didn't mean break up by style of music." And then you repeat, "What I meant was a forum for the R&B/Hip Hop engineer/mixer.

I have a very difficult time understanding what you DO mean, but I am willing to try to understand. Indeed what you are suggesting (intentional or not) for to create a forum based on genre/style.

As I said before we can all learn a lot from each other. What is it with us humans that we want crawl into our own little space and not be bothered to know what is going on with other groups of folks?

Can you please explain a little more what you are trying to accomplish if it is not to segregate the R&B/Hip Hop community from everything else?

Thanks!

[jazzius II]

Originally posted by Mike O
As I said before we can all learn a lot from each other. What is it with us humans that we want crawl into our own little space and not be bothered to know what is going on with other groups of folks?

very well said.

[stampen]

One thing I really like with this forum is that all styles mingle around with each other. Remote and studio, programmers and acoustic guys and so on.

For me as mostly a lurker (and a newbie) around here it does present problems.

For example. we all know the kind of threads like: What mic should I use on... Help me with my bass sound, How do I achieve... I read a lot of stuff here with great interest and try to learn a few things. But then after a while I realize that the tip I got the other day from someone that sounded cool, comes from a guy who's a REAL rocker into 70's Zeppelin style rock. (Which I am not at all). I becomes hard sometimes to know what tips to save as you don't know what sound the person writing is aiming at. One advantage of having dedicated forums could be to avoid those situations.

Otherwise I am constantly musically unfaithful...

/A

[Mike O]

Originally posted by stampen
One thing I really like with this forum is that all styles mingle around with each other. Remote and studio, programmers and acoustic guys and so on.

For me as mostly a lurker (and a newbie) around here it does present problems.

For example. we all know the kind of threads like: What mic should I use on... Help me with my bass sound, How do I achieve... I read a lot of stuff here with great interest and try to learn a few things. But then after a while I realize that the tip I got the other day from someone that sounded cool, comes from a guy who's a REAL rocker into 70's Zeppelin style rock. (Which I am not at all). I becomes hard sometimes to know what tips to save as you don't know what sound the person writing is aiming at. One advantage of having dedicated forums could be to avoid those situations.

Otherwise I am constantly musically unfaithful...

/A

I don't think the mix of genres presents the problem you describe as in the course of discussion you ALWAYS have to include context in the discussion. This would continue to be the case for example in an R&B/HipHop or ROCK (whatever those are) forums. But you would just be talking then about sub-genre or specific example for the context.

This of course could be a lurker problem. You have to get involved and ask about the context of the tip being provided.

[squizz]

Originally posted by nasty
I wish hip-hop would die and go away.I know it won't though.It's the final frontier as far as the lack of musicality in music.It's all style,no substance.
All producer crap,no artist.

Bling bling!

this is about the most ignorant comment i've heard in a while. alot of hiphop guys you say that lack musicality are ACTUALLY MUSICIANS, alot of us play instruments. yes the producer plays a bigger part in hiphop music, that doesnt make it unmusical just different method of making music. i could sit here and play hiphop songs to do that are full of "musicality". buy a Dr. Dre record or a Kanye West record or even a neptune record and tell me that there's no musicality there. i hear alot of live musicians in some of those records. you'd be suprised. i would venture to say i feel there are some hiphop records that i feel are a TON more musical than some 3 chord rock records. i dont play guitar and i can pick a guitar and play three chords over and over again for 5 minutes.

before you open your mouth please do your research (actually listen to a few records) you may even like something.

[M2E]

Hey Mike O and others- As you see hear at Gearslutz you have a forum called High End. You also have this one that's called So Much Gear, So Little Time-Right?
If you look under it, it says "Gear, gonzo rock n rolling on a DAW + session & music biz politics."
When I read that, the first thing I read was Rock N Rolling. This must be a Rock Forum. Then when reading on I saw DAW. So then I thought a Rock n roll recording site-right? Which it is. The main moderater does rock music (Jules)
High End says- "The expensive stuff". But if you look at both the sites they both talk pretty much about the same thing and about the same gear. Also about the same music.-ROCK. Which is very cool to talk about because I'm a very open person and, I've worked with a rock band before and to tell you the truth it helped me in alot of ways when mixing there stuff.

NOW- What I'm saying is this because I'm now seeing a lot more Hip Hop/R&B people come here as well as other forums and ask questions about mixing Hip Hop or R&B and that question quickly gets washed away by what guitar amp is the best or what preamp or mic is best for my Blank drums or guitar. Or someone answer like "well I'm not sure because I do more rock but I think you should try blank."
So just create a forum like- So little gear, so little time- gear, for soul music on a DAW and Blah blah blah you get the point.
Not nameing it Hip Hop/R&B Forum of course but to draw R&B/Hip Hop people as well as Rock and Reggae and so on. And still you could intermingle with other forums like I do here but now you have a broader Gear & Music site.

I don't know...

Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe it takes another site to do it and do it right before everybody else sees it and then decides to jump on the bandwagon.
I see this site growing. Just open up a little more.

To nasty- Before Rock was big I'm sure Jazz people were saying that to. I'm sure Blue Grass & Country people said it as well. Not to mention Big Band artist. I'm sure they said listen to that four chord un-original copy cat hollering music. it's so stiff and why are they yelling at the people? Oh-I hate that music. it won't last long.
Also you said all producer crap no artist. All music is like that. Rock as well.
What a stupid thing to say! Think before you write.
Plus "for the lack of musicality"- The biggest Rock Bands are copying Hip Hop, Limp Biskit, Linkin Park, Kid Rock and so on. Go figure.gurr
Whatever man, you keep wishin...

Hey Jules- Try it for a month. If it doesn't seem to be working right then drop it. Close it up!!
But you'll be surprised how many people are looking for something like this and waiting for the right site. I know I'am.

Thanx,
I'm done

M2E

[chickenbop]

Believe me-I think rock is on it's last leg also.
Not just hip-hop.
Blink 182 and Dr. Dre defining modern rock and modern rap respectively.


Pretty sad.

You can defend hip-hop all you want.
It's probably the most emotionally shallow "musical" genre ever.
It's basically UNEDUCATED,SPOILED thugs displaying their anger,lust,greed,and stupidity on the mental level of a twelve year-old.

Bitches,Hoe's,Bling,Bling!

Boo Yah!

Yep-great music.

[chickenbop]

Linkin Park,Limp Bizkit,Kid Rock?
That stuff blows.

[M2E]

What about The Roots, LL Cool J, Lauryn Hill, Kanye West?
What kind of music do you do? What kind of rock do you listen to and like?

M2E

[chickenbop]

Hey M2E,
I'm sorry I came off so rude.I made some stupid generalizations that aren't really true.
I retract my statements about hip-hop as a whole.
I find bands like the roots interesting and I definately think Lauryn Hill is talented.
I was lashing out at guys like 50 cent and other glorified gangbangers.
Hardcore rap that glorifies the ghetto is what I really despise,not hip-hop.
Rap groups like Outkast are very relevant in my book because they actually play music.
I was flipping through the radio stations and heard a beatles song right before I turned the channel and heard eminem.
The contrast really got me going.
As far as music I like,I definately am a rocker but modern rock music is very lacking to me.
I'm really sick of all the regurgitated "angst" music out there right now.