DIY-ing the world cheapest vocal booth/reflection filter

[Nahuel]

If you think it's the wrong forum feel free to move this post in the DIY section.
Sorry for the pics quality.

I already DYIed a lil vocal booth but a "real one", This is kind of modular reflexion filter:

4 x 100 cm x 100 cm cheapest acustic foam = 10X4 + 10 (from germany) euros = 72 USD

8 x 200 cm x 50 cm wood panels = 8 x 8 euros = 93 USD

furnitures +/- = 16 + 2 + 30 (scratch) euros = 70 USD

so it's 235 USD and 2/3 hours of "work" taking your time.




Reflexion filter = 219 euros = 317 USD




What do you think? My DIYed booth is a dumb move or is it better than the reflexion filter?

Have not tried it yet. Jus finished. Never tried a reflexion filter either.

[solidstate]

Dude.. you definitely got some creativity. However the reflection filter it's much more than just a couple of pieces of wood with "the cheapest acoustic foam"on it. Check their website:

Welcome to sE Electronics

Do yourself a favor and buy the RF, you won't be sorry.

[Nahuel]

really? you know i've been cheking several mitiged feedback about the the RF. With my actual DIYed "booth" I can get a closed space if I throw a blanket on to of it. I'll be tracking vocals these days... jus a pitty I have no RF to make an A/B test. But so far jus my voice on the "booth" sound pretty dry...

[DowntownScience]

I applaud the creativity. But that thing looks like a 'Reflection add-er'. I'd think you'd get vocals bouncing off of it like crazy.

[Nahuel]

Reflexion adder? lol, good one.

well for real the acustic foam seem to do it job at absorbing reflexions, as I said my voice sound pretty dry in it, but i'm not a rapper, i'll be trackin real voices tracks soon, maybe i'll post samples. You'll tell me.

Any thought about what would improve the filtering? maybe layering something between the wood n the foam... ?

[cpu]

Nice handywork, mang! Looking forward to hearing some samples of it...

[Nahuel]

Yes,I will do. Probably at the end of this week, you'll tell me if you think it add or filter reflexions. Hope it will filter! lol

[phillysoulman]

With George Clinton in my studio using the RF

[Nahuel]

yeah... nice! ^^, so phily do you think the RF would be far better than my DIYed booth? cause my actual room aint treated n the RF look so small...

I know it uses several Layers to acheive the "reflexion filtering"

But I know several released albums voice where tracked with jus a paravent and some blankets.

I'm pretty sure my paravent will be an improvement for voices takes but maybe using it + the reflexion filter would be even better, dont know.

[filterayok]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

With George Clinton in my studio using the RF

i just baught that thing! it works 'okay' ... problem is if you try to belt out something loud, the sound still finds its way to the walls and you'll hear the room, probably not as bad as without it, but you can definately hear it...

on my myspace, the song satisfied was done with that thing... i mean once eq, reverb, delay and layering is done you cant really hear the difference, but i know when i solo'd the vocal you could tell it was done in a living room with hardwood floors

[phillysoulman]

Make sure you are using the cardiod setting on your mike, place your mike inside the RF, and your pre is to a nominal level and use compression wisely.
If you know what you are doing,you should have no problem.

[phillysoulman]

It sounds fine,Eric.

[chris carter]

I'm impressed by the creativity and amount of work put into that thing, but I really have to question the work and cost vs. the results I suspect it generates. I mean, I bought two large comforters from a discount store, sewed them together with some loops along an edge, and I hang them from three small hooks in the ceiling. Hang it in a "V" shape and point a cardioid mic into it. It's way more effective than the SE-RF with none of the side-effects. It takes 30 seconds to put up or take down, and I can store it on a shelf. Total cost was about $30 USD.

[drethe5th]

Much props for setting up your own booth. It will indeed teach you something. Any time you do it yourself. It may not work like you intended but youll learn something that you can apply to something else. Even a mistake when controlled can be used to create certain effects. Phill Collins is a great example, the story on how some of his pianos on his early albums ended up sounding like they did was many times a mistake that he harnessed as a technique.

I do have the SE Reflection Filter and I do like it. It has helped on my vocals alot. I do have a carpeted floor, but no wall treatment. For me it was a great move. Much drier, and created better presence, it still is no substitute for an actual booth though. Like some one mentioned however, when eq and reverb are applied you probably cant tell if the room was a booth and properly treated or not especially when the music is added to the vocal track.

Keep being creative. You may need to add more foam or some type of other absorbing and diffusing material to your booth, but you are well on your way to having a booth regardless and Im sure it will help your vocals better than not having anything. Also like some one already said, check your mic direction pattern.

[filterayok]

Originally Posted by chris carter

I'm impressed by the creativity and amount of work put into that thing, but I really have to question the work and cost vs. the results I suspect it generates. I mean, I bought two large comforters from a discount store, sewed them together with some loops along an edge, and I hang them from three small hooks in the ceiling. Hang it in a "V" shape and point a cardioid mic into it. It's way more effective than the SE-RF with none of the side-effects. It takes 30 seconds to put up or take down, and I can store it on a shelf. Total cost was about $30 USD.

yes, your probably right, but the advantage is A) it looks a lot sexier and B) you can transport it and bring it anywhere without worrying about hanging hooks on the cieling of wherever your going.

Its worth about the (300? was it?) u pay for it, but not a penny more... its a nice thing to have , i'm just saying its by no means perfect...

i literally today just posted the second song i did with it, perfect criminal (in case you wanna hear it in action on something else)... it wasnt AS good on that one as the vocals were performed louder so i can still hear some 'room' in there but again after all the effects are applied it sounds good enough...

[peeder]

If you have space, use the Real Traps PVB, if you don't, use the SERF. Either of these will be superior in performance, I suspect, to the above DIY, for less than $300USD.

[Nahuel]

Ok thanks you very much for the inputs, really helps me. You motivated me to look for an SE RF and I found one used for 120 euros = 174 USD in my area (near Paris), gone a buy that thing and gone make some testings A/B/C etc... yes C: My DIY + RF. Thanks again.

edit: yes my mic is cardioid only so it's ok for that but it's a m 147 and it really takes much of the room. I had a booth at my previous crib (DIYed booth but a real one... a built one). But now I cant build a real booth, my crib not that big. Actually in my non treated room (yes I have to treat it) the M147 was giving bad results.

[just.sounds]

You would get much better results with your DIY treatment if you make something from wood that is acousticaly open/transparant so maybe just a frame and if you find a way to stick the foam on that it will work much better.

1/4 wavelength foam absorbers are effective so you made it for +- 15kHz.

Now if you make it open, the distance from the wall to the frame also work. wich will make it effective in most of the vocal range. But the foam is not thick enough for low freq.

That said the SE also makes use of other types of absorbsion and it is a good product!

[Nahuel]

ok that's really intereting jus.sounds! So you think some frames on my wood pannels in order to support the foam pannels would improve the acustic quality? that's really easy to do. I WILL do that. I 'm buying the RF today, If I dont like it I'll sell it for the same price. Thanks for the frame idea jus.sounds.

[chris carter]

lpuma, I can't tell from your photos if your booth is supposed to be a U shape or an enclosed circle. If it's a U shape you will probably have better results if you point the mic into the U. From the pic (maybe I'm looking at it wrong) it looks like the singer poitns into the U and the mic points out of the U. This would be backwards for a cardioid mic. You want the singer pointing out and the mic pointing in. The trick (and this why the RF can only be so effective), is that you will have little success keeping the voice from getting outside the booth (voice = omnidirection and loud) and once it does the mic is aimed to puck up all of those reflections if it's pointing out of the 'U'. BUT it's very easy to keep the reflections from the room coming into the booth and into the mic (mic = directional; reflections= quiet) if the mic is pointing into the U. Make sense?

[Nahuel]

ok, so let me explain, this is a totally modular system! yeah! ha ha.

Seriously each wood pannel is independent but I must use 2 pannels at the same time for stability, other than that I can do whatever I want.

My view was to have a closed space but I will try different configurations.

So far the closed configuration is giving the mo dry sound IMO.

And I'm going to buy th SE RF now so I will have even mo possibilities.

I'll be posting samples soon.

[Nahuel]

OK, so I'm back with the SE RF, Before I start testing I want to make some lil modifications to my "world cheapest booth", gone add some frames between the wood pannels and the foam according to jus.sounds advice. I'll post a new thread as soon as possible for a shootout/blind test, your thoughts will be really apreciated.

[peeder]

I don't think you understood the point...your wood panels are going to reflect everything that gets through the foam. It's as if you've put a bit of cellophane over a mirror: the brightness is reduced but the mirror will still reflect. What was suggested was opening those panels up so that they are just frames for foam with a bit of support. However, that won't be very good either. Owens Corning 703 is the stuff you're looking for wrt broadband absorption...thus the Real Traps PVB.

However you might like the effect you're getting with the foam and wood combination. It will be a very fast lower mid slap echo, sort of like an old school analog delay blended in low. If you position things just so you might not get too much phase interference.

[Nahuel]

Ok thank you very much peeder I was going to make a big mistake. Sorry I'm really a newbie as far as acustic laws, I tried to read some documentation but it was full of mathematiclal formulas so I was like oooo... What I need to do is to saw my pannels so there's no wood behind the foam right? Thanks Peeder you really all-helping me in this forum.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by lpuma

Ok thank you very much peeder I was going to make a big mistake. Sorry I'm really a newbie as far as acustic laws, I tried to read some documentation but it was full of mathematiclal formulas so I was like oooo... What I need to do is to saw my pannels so there's no wood behind the foam right? Thanks Peeder you really all-helping me in this forum.

I don't think that will help so much...leave what you have and maybe use it as the backdrop, with the singer facing out of it. If you want real absoprtion get some stand-mounted oc703 panels e.g. from GIK acoustics.

If you just place the mic inside the SERF properly (the capsule should be placed in line with the two ends of it...the George Clinton pic is totally wrong) you might not need to do anything else though.

[just.sounds]

I was indeed trying to tell to open panels up with big holes. Sorry that i was not clear.

It will help a bit. It will help some more if you make something like

Open sort of fabric][Rockwool][open fabric][the foam you have

In a frame. Like Window with foam but absorbsion instead of glass
With the foam pointing towards the singer.

Duvets are also amazing absorbers if you hang them like curtains two feet from the wall.

If you make one side a little more reflective with some wood or something you can experiment with a more live or really dry sound.

This could help if the reflection filter does not make it dry enough, try to put a screen behind the back of the singer.

I also suggest the book "acoustics and psychoacoustics" This ie very good theory on the subject.
(focal press)

[peeder]

Originally Posted by just.sounds

It will help some more if you make something like

Open sort of fabric][Rockwool][open fabric][the foam you have

In a frame. Like Window with foam but absorbsion instead of glass
With the foam pointing towards the singer.

When I asked about this, I was told that putting foam in front of rockwool panels would actually interfere with their absorptive properties, and that the membranes used for their interfaces are very important to their functionality (usually special canvas from Guilford of Maine and possibly other things as well).

Duvets are also amazing absorbers if you hang them like curtains two feet from the wall.

Fire safety first.

I suggest taking this topic up in the acoustics forum.

[Nahuel]

Ok thank you very much Peeder and Jus sounds.

Well I think I will not post a/b/ect shootout but I'll try to open the wood pannels (I'll use the wood in my kitchen, I need shelfs, lol) and use It on the back of my singer.

I hope it will be enought wit the RF to get decent results out of my mic.

I'll probably post some vocal tests here I your are ok to chek the files and tell me if you think it's usable for a commecial release (cause wit my hommie we want to drop something and we trying to save the voice tracking studio time, at my crib we can work hours until the performance is good without worrying about the money).

Thank you so much.

And yes this topic can be moved to the acustics section.

edit: BTW downtown was right I really built a reflexion adder lol (and that cool "dry" sound I was hearing was i fact the "very fast lower mid slap echo", when I think about it.. it's exactly that) lol...

[Nahuel]

Ok, so I've found a post on a home cinema forum by a guy saying that carpet is probably the cheapest way to get a minimal acustic treatment so I've been thinking about doing some modifications on my reflexion adding pannels...

here's a lil drawing (I apologise...)



It would be easy to do and pretty cheap but before I invest mo time I'd like to have your honest thought (I'm not gone cry, I promise).

[Nahuel]

Ok, ^^^whatever...

Again thank you everyone, I must admit you all have broken my DIY dream... LOL but you give me great advice, done some testings on my own voice (dont wanna take my rapper's head wit that shyt) and I'm really impressed by the RF.

I put 2 of my reflexion adders on my back and the mic capsule "in line" wit the end of the RF, If you want to hear here's the file + another one, jus my room, no treatment.

If you can give you thought about the "usability" of that kind of voice takes (the "dry one") for a radio ready release, it would be really apreciated. (the mix will be done by a pro at pro studio, mastering too)