Tracking Vocals over a mixed beat

[Dopamine]

One question: when a client brings you a mixed beat to record vocals over and do a final mix, do you usually use a mix buss comp? Most of the beats are semi-pro sounding (nothing amazing, but decent sonically) and have already been limited.

[kittonian]

Too bad they've already been limited. I usually ask the client for a non limited stereo track of the beat, unless they can provide me with all separate tracks. Then I do my own little touches with multiband compression and analog channel. After I track the vocal (usually triple tracking all parts) I definitely use a 2-bus compressor (usually the SSL G Compressor when doing hip-hop, r&b, etc.).

[computa]

all depends on how smashed the 2trk beat is already. Compressing it again may kill the trk.

Honestly, I am not a big proponent of mix buss compression or direct compression on drums that have been sampled from records which have already been mastered and compressed to death. Compression on the different vocal busses and some parallel comp on the drum buss and certain instruments only for me. Leaves it wider & more open.

2 buss comp seems to squeeze the image a little too much for me. I let mastering do their thing.

sorry for the rant

[Dopamine]

Yeah, that's why i was looking for varied opinions. When I first got my Fatso, I slightly overdid it. Since then I've stayed away from using it.

[Barron43]

Lets face it, if they are bringing in a two-track beat (90% of which are already sawed off or mp3's), it's not getting sent out to be mastered. I'll touch it back through the bus just to settle the vocals in a bit tighter then drive it against zero to taste.

[cpu]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

Yeah, that's why i was looking for varied opinions. When I first got my Fatso, I slightly overdid it. Since then I've stayed away from using it.

I got my Fatso today....i'm gonna have to use some real will power not to abuse the crap out of this thing on every single track...it's gonna be tough... :)

but yeah...i've been in this situation many times where people want me to record vocals over a two-track..slight compression on the buss should "glue" the vocals in there just a bit...but not too much that you suck all the life out of the track

[Justice]

Wait first of all dosent that Suck!

I mean nowaday thats all maphuckas do is two tracks. Like they Swiss beats on the track! LOL

I really hate that two track chit. I really do.

as for advice, tell them to stop being lazy, or jackin beats off the internet and track yo shit!

We are all pro's dont let amatures make you sound amatuer!

Show them the way to good recordings! They will respect you for it.

PS you could make more money in th eend too!

[Pistolpete]

I agree with you Justice, but in the same, whether or not Its a 2 track beat, there still paying you hourly right? So whats so bad about that? As an engineer your supposed to take whatever your given, polish it and give it back, so if your client isn't happy about the results, use that to your advantage to explain why its important to get the data files. Trust me they will appreciate it, and they will be spending more time in your studio because of your honesty and time required to track the instrumentals.

Heres a little story: I was recently working with this one client who was getting "free" beats off the internet. In the very beginning of his project I warned him that he should licence the instrumentals and get the data files. He ignored the advice and continued on with his project. Twards the middle of his project I told him again the same thing....Still he wanted to do it his way....When the project was in the final stages of tracking he decided to contact the producers and find out about licencing...what he found out was the producers were trying to charge too much out of his budget...so therefor we had to scratch all of the previous recordings we did just to start over on original productions done by the artist...but now were tracking the beats which adds an extra hour each session, and already he has paid over 1500$ just to find out I was right in the beginning. He now has to start over but will trust everything I say from this point on...so it works a couple ways in my benifit...

As far as mixing vocals with 2 track beats I usually will single out the beat first and make any boost/cuts I need to create a sort of pocket for the artists vocals and also to clearify any parts of the beat that need to stand out...I will also use a multiband compressor very slightly to identify certain sounds in the mix and bring up any snares and kicks that are hidden in the original 2 track. I usually will also run a slight noise reduction on the 2 track and follow with a slight reverb on the R channel, filtered to certain instruments to bring them forward and out in the mix.

As far as the Main vocals I usually will compress the hell out of them, usually using the Waves API or URS 1980's compressor with a medium quick release and medium slow attack and a make up gain of around +4-8db. (on the main vocal track). I usally will throw an anolog emulation eq such as the URS, Waves, or API and do a high pass at around 80hz or so depending on the vocal and a low pass around 14-18khz. Usually I again will compress if needed and if not then i will add a very very slight reverb usuing the Waves IR-1 on the Main Vocal and give it about a .20%wetness.
My backup (mains) usually a copy of the mains or the artist will do another completely separate which is mixed very wide,compressed heavily, eq'd for just the mids and mid highs to stand out with a slight delay or chorus effect and a reverb on just the R-channel.
The Backups(fills, pockets, patches, doubles, adlibs) usually are done on a Far L and R pan, with each back up differing slightly from the other. Again the backups they are compressed and given and eq'd appropriatly and usually given two completly separate effects, usually a pingpong delay on one and a flanger on the other (you get the idea).
As far as my master bus I usually start with a Multiband Compressor like Waves C4 or LinMB accentuating any parts that appeal too weak and lessening the parts that are overwhelming. I usually will then throw a slight noise reduction plug in line to remove any low noise distortions and then a Anolog model EQ like URS, Waves SSL or API and then the Waves L3 Multimaximizer. To finish off I may pull out the Waves REQ6 or the Waves Q10 to make any final cuts or boosts and then throw in a Apogee UV-22, some low db white noise around -85db or the Waves IR dithers...usually this promotes a pretty well defined mix for using a 2 track....

hope this gives ya some ideas...

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by Justice

as for advice, tell them to stop being lazy, or jackin beats off the internet and track yo shit!

We are all pro's dont let amatures make you sound amatuer!

You are probably just trying to joke around with that, but in a lot of situations when working with certain ppl, you dont want to be accusing them of anything unless you know what the deal is for sure....unless you are asking for a black eye in your own damn studio...

I deal with clients who only like to present stereo tracks for beats on a regular basis. I just simply let it be known to them that I can mix the beat better than who ever mixed it prior to the recording session....in which I will have samples ready for them to listen to as proof to that claim... next time around if possible, they will come in with tracked out beats and a positive attitude, which comes along with their money going into my pocket on a repeated basis when they keep coming back...

A lot of unknown producers these days make beat CDs and share them with other guys around their block, and in those cases the beats can be used legally for mixtape purposes as long as the producer is credited for the production... the downside to that is the artist only has access to the beat ripped off the CD... if they want a tracked out version they will have to buy or lease the beat.

[Justice]

Originally Posted by PettyCash

You are probably just trying to joke around with that, but in a lot of situations when working with certain ppl, you dont want to be accusing them of anything unless you know what the deal is for sure....unless you are asking for a black eye in your own damn studio...

I deal with clients who only like to present stereo tracks for beats on a regular basis. I just simply let it be known to them that I can mix the beat better than who ever mixed it prior to the recording session....in which I will have samples ready for them to listen to as proof to that claim... next time around if possible, they will come in with tracked out beats and a positive attitude, which comes along with their money going into my pocket on a repeated basis when they keep coming back...

A lot of unknown producers these days make beat CDs and share them with other guys around their block, and in those cases the beats can be used legally for mixtape purposes as long as the producer is credited for the production... the downside to that is the artist only has access to the beat ripped off the CD... if they want a tracked out version they will have to buy or lease the beat.

Well my team is like 50 deep so I dont hold back.

I may not always be that direct but my famous quote is "If you believe in your music nothing is to good."

besides all of the copywrite problems and publishing issues. I dont want it around my studio.

If your business is jacked then your project will be jacked.

[s.d.finley]

Like another poster said, if its completely squashed, its a lil harder.

That being said, I will parrallell comp and limit slightly on the master buss.

That normally does the trick.