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#1
23rd January 2008
Old 23rd January 2008
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Danjas Drums Or Timbaland Drums

Well its in many songs

T.I-Hurt
Katherine Mcphee-Open Toes
Omarion-Ice Box

I dont know if this is right, but are they layering acoustic drum kits with HipHop/RnB Drum Kits, 808s or what?

I tried that but i cant get them right! Even with Tube Saturation and EQ Blah Blah Blah

any advice out there?
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#2
23rd January 2008
Old 23rd January 2008
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in the TI song i hear a filtered kik (at leas that's how i would try to get that kind of sounds) sometimes layered wit a 808 (maybe sub bass).
#3
23rd January 2008
Old 23rd January 2008
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If you relying on a tube saturation plugin to get you a drum sound, you got problems right there... Its the samples they use, eq'd and compressed by people with good ears,,, thats it, no secret plugin or technical answer involved
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23rd January 2008
Old 23rd January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
If you relying on a tube saturation plugin to get you a drum sound, you got problems right there... Its the samples they use, eq'd and compressed by people with good ears,,, thats it, no secret plugin or technical answer involved

Oh no i dont rely on tube saturation, its alot of things i do to a kick, thats why i put blah blah blah, i was just trying to Get those particualr kicks
#5
24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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remember those dudes have time to be messin round wit kixx all day cos dats there day job i may have a good kik sample but i could never take it through tha mile long process as those dudes as i feel these dudes live in the studio.
its hard to do all that processing plus do ya 9-5.
sumwhut i feel my beat making process is pretty simple as time wont allow me to get too creative.
#6
24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingerbeats View Post
remember those dudes have time to be messin round wit kixx all day cos dats there day job i may have a good kik sample but i could never take it through tha mile long process as those dudes as i feel these dudes live in the studio.
its hard to do all that processing plus do ya 9-5.
sumwhut i feel my beat making process is pretty simple as time wont allow me to get too creative.
riiiiite....they're in there all day long processing kiks
#7
24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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funny thing is they actually are.
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24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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i think their engineer Ms. Lago touched on this topic in one of the last issues of Scratch, may wanna check that out.
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24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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she mainly said "Eq and compression. im not giving away any secrets. find the main frequencies of the drum and work with that. also i use attack and decay, each drum is different."


she also mentioned only using the main stereo out on tims asr and on danja's 4000, not the individual outs. i think i saw either a gtubes brick or a vipre right next to the 4000, in the Va studio where timberlakes record was made.
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24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante310 View Post
funny thing is they actually are.
really? wow i woulda thaught they'd spend the majority of their time focusing on sound choice, melody, song structure, vocal performance, and arrangement...you know, the things that actually make up a hit song??? now i know better! who knew! I guess every producer i've ever worked with (including one thats signed to timbaland) isnt focusing on the right things... oh well... i'm gonna go process some kiks for a few hours now.
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24th January 2008
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Well to master alot of these techniques u do need alot of time on ya hands dont ya?
#12
24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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eric relax. did i say they spend all day doing it? no. but they do spend a lot of time fine tuning their sounds and they have that luxury because they live in the studio.
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#13
24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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dude i always chime in on these types of things because i once was a person who thaught i SHOULD spend hours on processing kiks... and what i learned was after hours of processing a kik, was that 99% of the time, it never sounded as good as a kik i couldve sampled off a dre record in two seconds....

i apologize, but if theres one thing that gets me goin around here its when i see people focusing on the technical issues that end up ruining the potential of would-be great producers...I used to work with people who would spend hours patching and re-tracking their sounds thru outboard analog, sometimes even in 'bypass' just to 'send the signal thru the transistors'... all this studio hocus pocus.... and their trax never got cut.... then i'd come home and my friend would play me a beat he did on his mpc 60 with no equipment, and the shit sounded SO much better then what i worked on that day. The lesson was that the total disregard of studio-technics results in 100% focus on the MUSICAL aspects and makes the MUSIC that much better... WHen you spend hours on a kik sound, you fool yourself into thinking the kik is the star of the show, and the rest of the music suffers because of it.

Kik sounds will ALWAYS be there, readily available to anyone who can sample... But save that for when the track has been placed, youve been paid, and you have the luxery of focusing on the details of a PRODUCT your putting out there for the world to hear... until then, the kik sound has never been the difference between a hot SONG or not, and i think timbaland and danja know that.... those kiks are already bangin straight off their mpc...
#14
24th January 2008
Old 24th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
i see people focusing on the technical issues that end up ruining the potential of would-be great producers...
Great point. And it happens everywhere, in every creative field.

Also, lots of regular people don't care about what you did to the kick. They don't even notice. They only know if the song is hot or not. Who besides people who MAKE music says, "oooh damn, listen to that KICK... now this whole album is HOT!"

Also you are right, when I find an sonic element of a track I like, everything else tends to play 2nd fiddle, I'll boost it up without even being conscious about it.
#15
25th January 2008
Old 25th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
... the kik sound has never been the difference between a hot SONG or not, and i think timbaland and danja know that.... those kiks are already bangin straight off their mpc...
Respect due but without bangin drums; your track aint really bangin. Having said that, "bangin" is all about context and this camp knows about context!!
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#16
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneCre8 View Post
Respect due but without bangin drums; your track aint really bangin. Having said that, "bangin" is all about context and this camp knows about context!!
+1

context is key. listen to any dre track. DRE PRODUCED around the context and the limits of engineering since he is one himself.
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#17
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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I did vocal overdubs on "Open Toes', and what you hear on the record is very close to what came out of the stereo outs of Danja's equipment.

MS. Lago knows her stuff, and is a very pretty lady as well!

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#18
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirocco View Post
+1

context is key. listen to any dre track. DRE PRODUCED around the context and the limits of engineering since he is one himself.
i'm sayin the compression and eq of your drums is LEAST imposrtant in the scheme of HIT songwriting....

'like this and like that and like thissss and a......'

'Bowwowwow yippieyoyippieyay....'

'Nothin but a g thang baaaabaaay two low down n*** so we're craaaaaazy death row is the label that paaaaaaayys me....'

even the guitar riffs used on chronic 2001 were hooks.....

Dre produced around HOOKS like all hit producers do...

these songs were hits coming out of transistor radios that couldnt possibly translate all the nuances and frequencies that goes into the 'kik' sound.....

spend all the time you want on your kik, and YES kiks are important, but a hook can survive without a kik.... a kik cannot survive without a hook....
#19
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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sometimes the bass drum can be the "hook".

What comes in my mind is the electric riddim wit that "boom boom boom" at the end of the drum pattern, chek out "Haunted And Nervous" from Sizzla.
"Fed up" from Bounty Killer had that drum pattern too.

There's probably many hip hop tracks havin a "bass drum hook" but that dancehall ridim is a very good example.
#20
26th January 2008
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look found "haunted and nervous" on youtube in case you dont know the electric riddim. I have to say the whole music and song is DOPE but what was killin ppl was tha f***n kik.

YouTube - Sizzla - "Haunted and Nervous"
#21
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
If you relying on a tube saturation plugin to get you a drum sound, you got problems right there... Its the samples they use, eq'd and compressed by people with good ears,,, thats it, no secret plugin or technical answer involved
I definitly wouldn't say people with good ears. In terms of Tim's sounds, I would say that has alot to do with how he samples his sounds... usually done through his ASR-10. Have you really heard a Tim mix that sounded good lately? I havn't!
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26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpuma View Post
sometimes the bass drum can be the "hook".

What comes in my mind is the electric riddim wit that "boom boom boom" at the end of the drum pattern, chek out "Haunted And Nervous" from Sizzla.
"Fed up" from Bounty Killer had that drum pattern too.

There's probably many hip hop tracks havin a "bass drum hook" but that dancehall ridim is a very good example.
Yes the bass drum PATTERN can be a hook, but the 'eq' and 'compression' of the KIK DRUM is NOT. You think if you eq'd the bass drum better on a song it would make it a hit? Thats whats being discussed here. The difference between timbos drums and the average guys.
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26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefJeff View Post
I definitly wouldn't say people with good ears. In terms of Tim's sounds, I would say that has alot to do with how he samples his sounds... usually done through his ASR-10. Have you really heard a Tim mix that sounded good lately? I havn't!
The kiks usually sound good, if nothing else
#24
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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It's funny seeing arguments over drums here considering it's one of the fastest elements of a mix to bring together.. If your kick is missing something in a particular frequency range, then snatch that range from another kick and blend it in.

Pull up one of your favorite ref mixes and throw a waves lin multi band comp on it, (Don't compress with it, and leave the thresholds way up so it's not compressing). Solo each freq range and see what the drums in your ref are doing in each range. That's what you need yours to do. If It's way different from your drums in each range, you know why and you know where to start working. If you're missing subs, bring in a sub kick, if you're missing mid range punch, bring in a kick with mid range punch. Go to the GS tips threads and read the Pensado drum threads for compression tips..

Drums aren't that hard to get working at all when you start comparing to what it takes to get the vocals going. The separation of the men from the boys mixing happens with the vocals and the midrange and low mid range of the record. IMO.
#25
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
Yes the bass drum PATTERN can be a hook, but the 'eq' and 'compression' of the KIK DRUM is NOT. You think if you eq'd the bass drum better on a song it would make it a hit? Thats whats being discussed here. The difference between timbos drums and the average guys.
man we are talkin about the kik, is it important?, i'd say yes. everything about everything in your music is important, why the kik would be less important? especially in hip hop... When i read some posts by sirocco where he explain tips i never thought of about how to get a great sounding kik i say damn that sound designer job is interesting!

But evry producer is kind of sound designer too, tweakin, layering, etc is very important in hip hop, especially for the kik.

n in that dancehall riddim the sound of the kik was really important too (in that time those kiks were new in dancehall: catchy pattern + new sound= wow)
#26
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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There is way too much focus on sitting with drums for hours. There are lots of places online you can get great drums that are already processed for you. Some of your favorite producers sample drums right from the cds of other producers. If u leave that snare or that kick out by itself im snatching tht. Example, Dr Dre Explosive-Kanye west H to the IZZO, Guess Whos Back. Drums are everywhere and they are recyclable just like samples. The art lies more in matching the right drums to the right keys or samples. Everything else is just tech talk which kills the creative process. I for one prefer to have my drums ready to go. Id much rather sit for hours making music then to sit for hours just layering drums when i could buy thousands of drums for 50$ that are good quality
#27
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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ok but someone sampled and processed it before you think "that kik sound damn good". Someone did that job for you.
#28
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
dude i always chime in on these types of things because i once was a person who thaught i SHOULD spend hours on processing kiks... and what i learned was after hours of processing a kik, was that 99% of the time, it never sounded as good as a kik i couldve sampled off a dre record in two seconds....

i apologize, but if theres one thing that gets me goin around here its when i see people focusing on the technical issues that end up ruining the potential of would-be great producers...I used to work with people who would spend hours patching and re-tracking their sounds thru outboard analog, sometimes even in 'bypass' just to 'send the signal thru the transistors'... all this studio hocus pocus.... and their trax never got cut.... then i'd come home and my friend would play me a beat he did on his mpc 60 with no equipment, and the shit sounded SO much better then what i worked on that day. The lesson was that the total disregard of studio-technics results in 100% focus on the MUSICAL aspects and makes the MUSIC that much better... WHen you spend hours on a kik sound, you fool yourself into thinking the kik is the star of the show, and the rest of the music suffers because of it.

Kik sounds will ALWAYS be there, readily available to anyone who can sample... But save that for when the track has been placed, youve been paid, and you have the luxery of focusing on the details of a PRODUCT your putting out there for the world to hear... until then, the kik sound has never been the difference between a hot SONG or not, and i think timbaland and danja know that.... those kiks are already bangin straight off their mpc...
Amen!

Drums on "Billie Jean" e.g. sucks bigtime a$$, but we can't argue about the MUSICAL quality of that record!

On the other hand a track like "J-Kwon - Tipsy" would probably be nothing, without those exact knocking drums...
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#29
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Amen!

Drums on "Billie Jean" e.g. sucks bigtime a$$, but we can't argue about the MUSICAL quality of that record!

On the other hand a track like "J-Kwon - Tipsy" would probably be nothing, without those exact knocking drums...

I'm not saying some songs arent built around the drum sounds.. but there are OTHER similar drum sounds that wouldve still worked, (maybe even better) for tipsy, as long as they were playing that catchy pattern...Theres no need to spend hours processing kiks if your trying to be a hit producer... And my only real point in this whole thread is just dont think that your favorite producers are sitting there for hours on end processing a kik...theyre just not, they have better things to worry about..
#30
26th January 2008
Old 26th January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpuma View Post
ok but someone sampled and processed it before you think "that kik sound damn good". Someone did that job for you.
correct. at some point, the kiks were compressed and equ'ed or designed or whatever... but 99% its not by the same guy worried about the hit potential of the entire song...
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