Timbaland + Nelly Furtado's tune "Wait For You": A rip off from a Turkish folk song?

[Barish]

This comparison was brought to my attention today. To my ears, Timbaland + Nelly Furtado's tune "Wait For You" clearly uses the melody of a Turkish folk song "Allah Allah Desem Gelsem" (What If I Come To You Praising God) by the late Turkish singer songwriter baglama player Muhlis Akarsu, as it is claimed in the video:

YouTube - Timbaland - Oh Timbaland Video 2008 Throw it on me

I couldn't get hold of the credits for the track from the internet, so I can't be sure whether it is a rip off, or a legitimately credited/licensed use. Does anyone have the album sleeve for the album this track appears in?

B.

[MarkusColeman]

I doubt that he cleared it. does he EVER?

[WideawakE]

it's called sampling

so what if Timabland went Loop digging and found something dope, he obviously cleaned them up or replayed them, or not, point being...find your own loops, sample them, make them number one hits and you can have people hating you too!

[Solar]

Don't tell me that he never "Cleared" these samples or these sampling idea... i mean i'm sure with the time and as the time of music was involving and sampling start to be more recognized if i may say, i'm sure that the original writers have heard their work in Timbo's production, i mean Timbo's work has cross the rest of the world, so don't tell me that no one of those composers/producer even come to him or the Publishers of these original tracks, ever come to Timbo and ask him to pay the "clearance"?

If until today none of the original creator did not, man, thats a lot of money in the air.

Woooooooooow!! One thing though, you gotta give it to Timbo, even though his man influences comes more from already composed melody from Arab music, or Turkish etc..but he enovate by taking those samples and mixing them, blending them and turning them into his trademark and making hits and now mutli-millionaire or billionaire haahahhahaaha~!

He did it and i give him thumbs up!!!

Why not.... :))))) and now he is more into electronics/alternative vibes... soon it will be some african tribal samples licks and hooks!!

[fontenele]

I think its funny that this is news. If you get "inspired" by foreign music specially, african, arab, indian and other rhythmically rich country, the huge majority of US public will never ever know ! And not even be suspicious! Plus it will add to your "genius" status. Specially in the US where people in general are culturally self-centered not to say ignorant sometimes. In Europe people are much more open to those influences as a whole much more aware of the surroundings.
Sorry to drop this one, I did not mean to be mean but it is just plain true.

[PhonoquO]

doesn't surprise me

[Solar]

Originally Posted by fontenele

I think its funny that this is news. If you get "inspired" by foreign music specially, african, arab, indian and other rhythmically rich country, the huge majority of US public will never ever know ! And not even be suspicious! Plus it will add to your "genius" status. Specially in the US where people in general are culturally self-centered not to say ignorant sometimes. In Europe people are much more open to those influences as a whole much more aware of the surroundings.
Sorry to drop this one, I did not mean to be mean but it is just plain true.

Hey Fontenele!! You absolutely brought a very good point here even myself i won't "generalize" that all Us are but majority yes... post like this makes laugh as well because i remember coming from that african/oriental/arabic/african background, i remember when i first arrived in Canada, and then i was at school and my friends coming to me "ohhh shit have you heard this new track of Timbo with Aaliyah etc... you heard the sample etc.." and i was of course enjoying the track, the vibe, drums pattern and the blend of what he did but i was telling to my friend that whoever create that SONG or Beat, the oriental or arab sample is not his. Its an existing from arab singer or composers that he sample it... And sometimes we were coming to an argument because inside of me i knew exactly that freaking "sample" came form and they were like" No its Timbo, he created it, its his idea blabablaba" so i was ok its alright.. and then after i i was coming back with the "tape" and make them hear in their walkman haahahahha and they were like " Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit where did you find this man!!! " ...etc.. etc..


And the story goes!! So you're damn right!!

But its all good.. now sampling is more wider and people are getting knowledge (i hope)

Cheers!!

[cynic]

this thread is wack. who the **** cares? you've never sampled or replayed anything?

[Zacchino]

What the hell are you guys gettinh angry and disrespectful at ? IMO this kind of sampling is a smart and interresting move.

What I always loved about sampling, wether it is in House, Hip-Hop, or else, it's that it teaches a certain generation how great songs where back in the days, or else, it makes you wanna discover new styles of music.

I love Warda, Natasha Atlas, oriental music - this is what I call hot- some of you already know about this.

Have you ever seen a real oriental belly dance on oriental music ? PCD would be jealous ^^

I'm sure some of you also fell in love with some Russian, Turkish, Libanese and Japanese music, that's really REALLY good.
Music isn't just english or spanish, it's also a demonstration of how music can be in other lands, other languages.

It's not because nowdays we have the power to create a melody of our own, that Sample must be banned as "Not creative".

It's a good thing, especially when you turn on the radio and find out that what's called "hot" for our kids, for the next gen. get their ears assasinated with some kind of "2 notes melody club banger"...

And don't even try getting wiser with the lyrics of that kind of music. I'm not gonna get into this subject, let's just say it's my view on this point.

People that sample are also doing their homework. It's like digging to find that one gold nugget that'll make you wanna embroider around it. As soon as the sampled artist approve the track, and get his bucks I really don't care wether it's ethical or not. When it's good and profitable, why not ?

[TonyBelmont]

It's called sampling.... Why do we have threads like this?

[H-Rezz]

Enjoy the music, let the lawyers sort out where samples and such have come from or been ripped off from

[mangomixx]

Originally Posted by cynic

you've never sampled or replayed anything?

Yes, and I've felt guilty and hoped I'd never be so short of original ideas to resort to pinching ideas for a living, talented individuals compose, shrewd businessmen like Timbo & Puffy jack.

[cynic]

Originally Posted by mangomixx

Yes, and I've felt guilty and hoped I'd never be so short of original ideas to resort to pinching ideas for a living, talented individuals compose, shrewd businessmen like Timbo & Puffy jack.

wow...ok. what have you made again that's worthwhile? where's your body of work?

[terrytee]

i know of at least 1 artist who has been sampled by tim with out there consent, a well respected percussionist and is not a rich man but is in constant demand, anyway the story goes that he rang timbos pepole and spoke to Missy who said they were well aware that the sample in question had not been cleard and the next time his was in LA he should stop by the studio and they could do some paid work with him.
To put it short hes the sampled party and not beefing, paid work or no paid work.
True story.

This beefing over sampling i could understand if the producer was straight jacking someone else's style of production or just add zero input the sample, looping with no fly beat. I can only presume people beef because there own concepts don't come so naturally.

P.S. Indian music covers popular current western tracks all the time and sales tape and cds of them in huge unit numbers. If you live anywhere near a community that mostly buys artist from there own background open your ears and check it out how universal ideas can be.

[MarkusColeman]

the original poster didn't ask whether sampling is ok or not, if it's hip hop or not, but if the samples were cleared.

nobody says "sampling is not creative".

if you make a living selling other people's intellectual property, without their consent, then this is not hip hop, but sampling with the intention to steal.

you won't hurt anybody, if you take the sampled track and play it to your friends.

[kojo]

Originally Posted by MarkusColeman

the original poster didn't ask whether sampling is ok or not, if it's hip hop or not, but if the samples were cleared.

nobody says "sampling is not creative".

if you make a living selling other people's intellectual property, without their consent, then this is not hip hop, but sampling with the intention to steal.

you won't hurt anybody, if you take the sampled track and play it to your friends.

well by that definition, theres a whole bunch of classic albums/songs that cant be defined as hiphop anymore

[Barish]

Originally Posted by cynic

this thread is wack. who the **** cares? you've never sampled or replayed anything?

No.

I play every bit of music I make by myself, or get it played by the people I work with, apart from the drum samples that come out of the package I've paid for.


...which is obviously very alien to your environment. Whack is a very relative description, isn't it?

B.

[Barish]

Originally Posted by MarkusColeman

the original poster didn't ask whether sampling is ok or not, if it's hip hop or not, but if the samples were cleared.

nobody says "sampling is not creative".

if you make a living selling other people's intellectual property, without their consent, then this is not hip hop, but sampling with the intention to steal.

you won't hurt anybody, if you take the sampled track and play it to your friends.

Good to see someone in this part of the web who can see the point. Thank you dude. Only if everyone in this business had a similar standard of perception ability.

It looks like even some of the moderators here can't see it.

He writes like I have just started making music and have no idea what sampling is about... which makes me think what he is going to moderate with that level of understanding... or lack thereof, may I dare say.

I mean, Tony, please keep doing what you do best dude, which is selling gear. Copyright matters are clearly not for you.

Yes Jules, now that I touched a mod, you can ban me. No hard feelings.

B.

[Barish]

And oh, before I go, I have just been informed that the owner of the sampled recording, Kalan Music, announced that the samples were not cleared with them therefore they are taking a legal action against it.

It was called "sampling", wasn't it, Tony?

B.

[assemblyworker]

Does anyone know the exact date Hip Hop got so gay?

[terrytee]

^^^^

[WideawakE]

Originally Posted by assemblyworker

Does anyone know the exact date Hip Hop got so gay?

[fontenele]

this thread is fine.
1. The original question was about the clearance of the sample.(not cleared)
2. I never sampled, and feel like I lost a lot because of that but also gained some. Anyway I intend to do it in the future.
3. Timbaland IS great but HE IS NOT THAT MUCH OF A F****** MUSICAL GENIUS !
4. And yes he is not straight with his sampling business.
period.

[SurfClubChase]

lol @ this.

Lame ass.

[rickrock305]

what a lame thread.


these f*ckin people should be happy Timb sampled their sh*t, it will make them more money then they ever would have on their own

[B-Muzik]

YALL HATERS!!!! HOE ILL SAMPLE TOO! THATS A HOT TRACK! GET OFF HIS NUTS AND GET ON MINE! GIVE ME THE ATTN!

[smy1]

I always wonder how all the "pro-sampling-without-clearance" guys would react if Timbaland used one of their songs (maybe downloaded from this forum) for a hit and they didn't get anything for it ...

[Barish]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

what a lame thread.


these f*ckin people should be happy Timb sampled their sh*t, it will make them more money then they ever would have on their own

You are ignorant as f**k, and thick as plain yogurt as well.

The artist whose work was chopped up and used in that "BIG TIMBO" hit (namely Muhlis Akarsu) has pretty much a martyr/cult status among some 15-20 million people in that part of the geography, for he was killed in a sectarian riot back in 93 that led to the arsoning of a hotel he was staying in at the time, so his works are pretty well documented, known, bought and listened to, although you in your small world may not be aware of the fact that there are even more people living out of it than in it.

M.

[Dante310]

Originally Posted by Barish

And oh, before I go, I have just been informed that the owner of the sampled recording, Kalan Music, announced that the samples were not cleared with them therefore they are taking a legal action against it.

It was called "sampling", wasn't it, Tony?

B.

That's cool and all but you should get the story straight, and they should too, before suing the wrong person. The sample had been used before and was on a sample cd called Ali Baba and the 40 Ravers. Most companies who make sample Cd's aren't stupid enough to just straight jack a melody and sell it, so the odds are they cleared it with the original artist, and therefore tim is free to do so (assuming that's where they got it).

[oudplayer]

Even if it was cleared for a sample CD does not mean it was cleared for subsequent commercial use and distribution. I would think everyone in the hip hop forum would know this by now...

Muhlis Akarsu shouldn't be happy that his music got sampled if he doesn't get props on the album. Well, actually, he can't be happy anyway, since he was assassinated in 1993 (but his family owns the rights to his recordings and compositions).

Anyone got a copy of the Timb album laying around?

This is a persistent problem - I've been called as an expert witness in other major hip hop album cases involving Turkish and Arab artists being sampled without either credit or financial compensation. The idea that these artists should be happy someone in America likes their work enough to use it but not enough to give props or the few cents per copy they'd give an American artist is pure bullshit.