What sounds should I avoid ..

[Bob Yordan]

.. picking sounds for modern sounding hip hop, r&b productions etc.

I am currently working with a young female singer, that compalin about
my production sounding 80:s/90:s. Sometimes it is the playing but more often the selection of sounds.

Eg when I show her loops in Stylus RMX, she can pin point what sounds
old school & what sounds new. But I am mostly guessing.

I have managed to squeeze 7-8 song through her filtering, with some major
re-arrangements. The results sound really cool. But I still have 15
song that she dont like all that much.

It is a steap learning threshold, but eventually I might find my concepts.

[piccazzo]

There´s no real question in your post but

What sounds should I avoid ..

808 , Autotune , Triton , Vanguard , Motif - Those you should avoid cause if u use them your songs will sound like everything else on the Radio and MTV.

[assemblyworker]

I feel your situation....


My passion is the older Hip Hop sound, such as the records I grew up listening too however I'm also making a lot of beats for young cats who know nothing of this sound and who don't care about it or want to sound that way.

The best advice I could give would be to really listen to how the artists sounds, get in their mind and vibe, then make beats accordingly. This usually works for me and I end up with music far removed from what I would make of my own accord and 9 times out of ten the artists feel it.

With regards to what sounds to use.... ANY! Stay away from your favourite libraries and imagine their vocal sound in your head. Listen to what else is around but bare in mind that what's released now was often made some time ago, don't be afraid to try something different.

[ReaLsoN]

There aint no such thing as "avoiding certain sounds" imo.

What you should avoid is people who try to tell you how YOUR music should sound like!

If the "golden era" drumsounds is part of your sound, and if YOU like that, then by any means, stick to whateva you feel is right.

Also, you can´t say avoid for ex. Motif, 808 or xxx machine sounds. If you keep those stock sounds like they are, that´s one thing, but if you freak those sounds to make em sound new and different, that´s somethin else.

Me personally, I love the golden era type drumsound, even tho I stay open, and use many so called modern sounds too. I think what´s most important is that you use the right sounds at the right time.

Make the drumsounds fit the music. Try out new things, be open minded and DONT avoid anything. You might really like a certain sound that somebody else did not like at all and told you to avoid that.

Music is not to be fit in a lil box, there aint no do´s and dont´s in being creative. Think outside the box and do whateva you feel is right.

You might also consider recording a few sounds yourself. That always brings out good ideas for new drum sounds, at least for me.

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by piccazzo

There´s no real question in your post but


808 , Autotune , Triton , Vanguard , Motif - Those you should avoid cause if u use them your songs will sound like everything else on the Radio and MTV.

I think it might quit be the opposite in this case, she is to much into sounding like everyone else. Telling me to listen to different artist
and listen to what sound they are using. But it can be tricky because
sometimes their songs are not compatible with the ones I make.

Thax for the reply.

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by assemblyworker

I feel your situation....


My passion is the older Hip Hop sound, such as the records I grew up listening too however I'm also making a lot of beats for young cats who know nothing of this sound and who don't care about it or want to sound that way.

The best advice I could give would be to really listen to how the artists sounds, get in their mind and vibe, then make beats accordingly. This usually works for me and I end up with music far removed from what I would make of my own accord and 9 times out of ten the artists feel it.

With regards to what sounds to use.... ANY! Stay away from your favourite libraries and imagine their vocal sound in your head. Listen to what else is around but bare in mind that what's released now was often made some time ago, don't be afraid to try something different.

Just the feel I get. I really into giving the songs a personal touch also.
It becomes a struggle, like eg painting a picture and only being allowed to
use the colors yellow and brown.

Think I have located some of the sounds that she does not like, brass/wah/pads doing chords/most of
the synth bass sounds in Trilogy/hard lead sounds/echo sounds/drum beats that sounds slick/arpeggios
just to mention a few. *pew*

At the same time it is a very good experience for me as I found the insight
and must perform better than I expected from the start. I also work with another singer that really digs all the stuff I make. So I am not all that depressed.

Thanx for the good advice

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by piccazzo

There´s no real question in your post but


808 , Autotune , Triton , Vanguard , Motif - Those you should avoid cause if u use them your songs will sound like everything else on the Radio and MTV.

So you are saying everybody that uses those synths will use them in exactly the same way thus sound the same ?

I always thought that it's not the ingredients but what the chief decided to create with the ingredients

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by ReaLsoN

There aint no such thing as "avoiding certain sounds" imo.

What you should avoid is people who try to tell you how YOUR music should sound like!

If the "golden era" drumsounds is part of your sound, and if YOU like that, then by any means, stick to whateva you feel is right.

Also, you can´t say avoid for ex. Motif, 808 or xxx machine sounds. If you keep those stock sounds like they are, that´s one thing, but if you freak those sounds to make em sound new and different, that´s somethin else.

Me personally, I love the golden era type drumsound, even tho I stay open, and use many so called modern sounds too. I think what´s most important is that you use the right sounds at the right time.

Make the drumsounds fit the music. Try out new things, be open minded and DONT avoid anything. You might really like a certain sound that somebody else did not like at all and told you to avoid that.

Music is not to be fit in a lil box, there aint no do´s and dont´s in being creative. Think outside the box and do whateva you feel is right.

You might also consider recording a few sounds yourself. That always brings out good ideas for new drum sounds, at least for me.

Yup, I respect you oppinion that knowone should interfere to much.
But in this case I have allowed her to interfere, because she is the front figure of this project.

And I mostly work with the concept that the important thing is that the song gets good and the producers job is to do the job. Even if it means sacrificing my own intial arrangement.

Thanx for the reply.

[H-Rezz]

Hi Bob, you shouldn't avoid any sound it's how you use it in the arrangement you want to work on, there is lots of dated sounding stuff being used in HipHop it's just how it's being used that makes it sound fresh , remember 808's have been around a long time and nobody say's that sounds dated if you choose to use it .....

More than anything listen to how things are put together , you might be thinking to musical for example and all you need is some catchy line riding the track with a few extra elements and thats it ....

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by H-Rezz

Hi Bob, you shouldn't avoid any sound it's how you use it in the arrangement you want to work on, there is lots of dated sounding stuff being used in HipHop it's just how it's being used that makes it sound fresh , remember 808's have been around a long time and nobody say's that sounds dated if you choose to use it .....

More than anything listen to how things are put together , you might be thinking to musical for example and all you need is some catchy line riding the track with a few extra elements and thats it ....

Pin pointed, I guess I might have to get my playing more up to date.
So that I play more modern in the style.

Thanx

[feedback711]

Originally Posted by Bob Yordan

I think it might quit be the opposite in this case, she is to much into sounding like everyone else. Telling me to listen to different artist
and listen to what sound they are using. But it can be tricky because
sometimes their songs are not compatible with the ones I make.

Thax for the reply.

true

[sonnyblack2000]

those might be part of the problem.
I find that the loops in stylus RMX are not suitable for hiphop/modern R&B. They are canned loops and a true urban music affictionado is usually allergix to them (consciously or not). Very useful in my pop work tho'
Its better to program your own patterns with other drum libraries for more ginuwin modern urban stuff.
Also I had to use Trilogy a few times (when I was away from my beloved Moog Voyager) and had problem finding usable bass sounds for urban music, and when I did I had to twek em a lot and then pass it thru some quality pre + comp
hope this helps
Sonny

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by sonnyblack2000

those might be part of the problem.
I find that the loops in stylus RMX are not suitable for hiphop/modern R&B. They are canned loops and a true urban music affictionado is usually allergix to them (consciously or not). Very useful in my pop work tho'
Its better to program your own patterns with other drum libraries for more ginuwin modern urban stuff.
Also I had to use Trilogy a few times (when I was away from my beloved Moog Voyager) and had problem finding usable bass sounds for urban music, and when I did I had to twek em a lot and then pass it thru some quality pre + comp
hope this helps
Sonny

Yup, the Stylus RMX loops when used in static 'just play way' can be a
lifeless. I mostly tweak & edit/combine different loops/mute parts inside the loops same goes for
Trilogy mostly have to tweak the sounds until they fit the concept together with the beat & other
stuff & often use more instances than one in a song.

Stylus RMX is excellent to get a lot of songs made in a short period of time though.

Thanx for the reply.

[piccazzo]

So you are saying everybody that uses those synths will use them in exactly the same way thus sound the same ?

I always thought that it's not the ingredients but what the chief decided to create with the ingredients

Clearly the irony didn´t get thru here But Yeah a lot of the tracks that use these instruments/Drums tend to sound the same especially in " Crunk " " Dirty South "
style.And i still dont know what the question is ?
What to use , What not to use ? And why even ask that question , you might as well ask us to do your tracks for you.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by Bob Yordan

.. picking sounds for modern sounding hip hop, r&b productions etc.

I am currently working with a young female singer, that compalin about
my production sounding 80:s/90:s. Sometimes it is the playing but more often the selection of sounds.

Eg when I show her loops in Stylus RMX, she can pin point what sounds
old school & what sounds new. But I am mostly guessing.

I have managed to squeeze 7-8 song through her filtering, with some major
re-arrangements. The results sound really cool. But I still have 15
song that she dont like all that much.

It is a steap learning threshold, but eventually I might find my concepts.

I'd say try copying a recent commercial beat, that might give you insight on how 'newer' beats are made...

but what sounds are she talking about specifically?

[Ash Holmz]

not every artist clicks with every producer ... forcing the music does nobody any good.... that being said your job as a producer is to make the artist shine. ... 90% of producers use the same damn keyboards and programs as everyone else so it aint what ur using. Staying current or ahead of the curve is part of the fun of producing. Listening to whats out there, incorporating bits of it into your own work while still maintaining your own style and indentity.

[PhonoquO]

avoid presets

[hanuman]

Interesting topic.
You might want to find a beatmaster. Altenatively you can check out together online sample grooves. Do good research, ask her her favourites a listen to them carefully.

[Bob Yordan]

Hiya guys

Thanx for all the replies.

I think my brain finally have come up with what is wrong, with the
process.

I need to simplify my arrangements when I present the songs to
her initially. I think complex things confuses her to much.

Got to get down to the roots more of the beat & bass and slowly
build up the arrangements during the process.

And use basic sounds that fits the style, better.

[Dor]

Use an apple loop and call it a day

D

[Puma]

Originally Posted by Dor

Use an apple loop and call it a day

D

Hah, yea - and why not start out with the "Vintage Funk Kit 03"! She will love it, I guarantee!!

[tonyscarbones]

don't you guys make your own sounds and loops?


plus the problem with artists and listeners is when they hear sumthin new they want it to sound similar to sumthin else

like a dre style beat or a primo style beat, and then they like it

if it's something new and different, it'll take a while to catch on but most artists don't want to go that route

plus i try to emulate my favorite producers but all combined into one style

kinda how you can see that eminem as a rapper was a combination of redman, masta ace, az, canibus, and proof

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by ReaLsoN

There aint no such thing as "avoiding certain sounds" imo.

What you should avoid is people who try to tell you how YOUR music should sound like!

If the "golden era" drumsounds is part of your sound, and if YOU like that, then by any means, stick to whateva you feel is right.

Also, you can´t say avoid for ex. Motif, 808 or xxx machine sounds. If you keep those stock sounds like they are, that´s one thing, but if you freak those sounds to make em sound new and different, that´s somethin else.

Me personally, I love the golden era type drumsound, even tho I stay open, and use many so called modern sounds too. I think what´s most important is that you use the right sounds at the right time.

Make the drumsounds fit the music. Try out new things, be open minded and DONT avoid anything. You might really like a certain sound that somebody else did not like at all and told you to avoid that.

Music is not to be fit in a lil box, there aint no do´s and dont´s in being creative. Think outside the box and do whateva you feel is right.

You might also consider recording a few sounds yourself. That always brings out good ideas for new drum sounds, at least for me.

preach on man straight up!

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by Dor

Use an apple loop and call it a day

D

I remember when one of my friends was in engineering school and a bunch of us guys went down one night to the school's studio after some clubbing and made a whole mixtape off a bunch of chopped up apple loops.....

Those were really the days man.....lol