50 Cent - Vocal Chain

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by filterayok

I think if your arugument is 'dont start eq'ing things that already sound perfect' then yes in that respect i think no one would disagree. But the chances of an entire session of drums, synths, bass, vocals, samples etc. would blend together perfectly as is, is like a million to one. Its like an ice sculpter finding a block of ice that already looks like a dove, and not needing a chisel.
the term 'as little eq as possible' doesnt really make sense, cus there's no such thing as 'more' or 'less' eq... there is only more or less of a given frequency, so bottom line is, you sculpt the sound to what you want, no more no less... Swedien mixed JLos record with a good buddy of mine right across the hall from me, so i'll ask him the deal on that. i know he said Swedien doesnt like compression, which at least makes sense to me from a certain angle, but avoiding eq seems to be pointless and counter productive IMHO.

all so true,
but you there are those who really think this can happen much much more

EQ baby

[coyotekells]

OH SHIT!! He hit 'em with the Ice sculpture anology!!

[filterayok]

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

OH SHIT!! He hit 'em with the Ice sculpture anology!!

best believe. i dont play around

[computa]

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

Hey, don't think you can get away that just because it's SUBTRACTIVE!!

Btw, any song could be made without EQ.

The real argument is that there are song released on Aftermath that where no EQ was used in the Mix.. LOL, still think that is a ridiculous statement

C'mon people, please don't compare your own mix standards to those of a mix coming off Aftermath ;)

aftermath is no different than any other label- We all want quality mixes. The label I am apart of has easily sold more in past few years than aftermath- but that's far from the point. There is no blueprint for mixes on a per song basis so I cant say it's not being done.

The dude Justin said he worked with Dre and saw it being done first hand. I cant argue with that.

[justin bendo]

"But the chances of an entire session of drums, synths, bass, vocals, samples etc. would blend together perfectly as is, is like a million to one."


...it depends on how the instruments are recorded. instruments CAN blend together well with the right mics/micpre choices, without EQ, if that's the sound you're going for. If not, you may need to EQ, or compress, or limit, or distort, or whatever else.

go ask Swedien if it's a million to one odds that he doesn't have to EQ much (if at all) when he uses the right mics... or ask Shawn Murphy if he screwed up the Star Wars soundtrack by not eq'ing everything seperately.



also, "there's no such thing as 'more' or 'less' eq"---

eq'ing, as in manipulaion of frequencies... there absolutely can be more manipulation of the frequencies; for example-- you can boost the highs and lows, or subtract mids. subtractive would be less EQ'ing (1 band versus 2 or more).


in regards to Dr. Dre, Denaun Porter (from D12) told me in the studio, in Detroit in 2001, that Dre doesn't use alot of EQ (paraphrased). That's what I heard 7 years ago. If you think differently, good for you.

Also, it seems like someone here is misunderstanding what I'm saying about EQ being optional. I'm not saying to NEVER use EQ, I'm just not saying I don't ALWAYS EQ. You may think distortion or reverbs or flangers are mandatory too, but I don't.

[justin bendo]

Okay-- here are Dre's own words about EQ, because it seems that I'm being a bit misunderstood. I should have said "does not use much EQ" instead of "does not use EQ", even though I didn't mean to insunuate 'never uses EQ';


http://www.hiphopgame.com/index2.php3?page=dre
'I usually record vocals flat. The only time I put EQ on vocals when recording is if I know for a fact that I?m going to want it to sound like that during the mix.'

'When I want a little more crispness out of the mic, I use the 1073 EQ with just a little high end.

'We don?t use a lot of outboard gear,' Dre concurs. 'I doctor the vocal as far as de-essing and maybe some low-end EQ for the kicks.

[justin bendo]

Originally Posted by computa

The dude Justin said he worked with Dre and saw it being done first hand. I cant argue with that.

I wasn't with Dre when he mixed the songs.

[coyotekells]

Originally Posted by justin bendo

http://www.hiphopgame.com/index2.php3?page=dre
'I usually record vocals flat. The only time I put EQ on vocals when recording is if I know for a fact that I?m going to want it to sound like that during the mix.'

'When I want a little more crispness out of the mic, I use the 1073 EQ with just a little high end.

'We don?t use a lot of outboard gear,' Dre concurs. 'I doctor the vocal as far as de-essing and maybe some low-end EQ for the kicks.

Seems you misunderstand Dre and Denaun..

Dre is clearly referring to his tracking practises:

Many people don't track with EQ, or use it minimally. As of course you know.

Does that extend to MIXING this incredibly sharp, sonically-sculptured urban music of today?
HELL NO!!!


And if Star Wars boy didn't record the orchestra himself, I don't see the relevance... Vienna Symphony library or whatever he uses is 200GBs of the most meticulously recorded orchestra samples, time tested to fit perfectly if used in a "natural" orchestra scenario... you could phone Vienna people, and if you reach someone who knows, they're tell you those samples are probably not "exactly" raw.. natural, yes.. raw? doubt it.. probably some light eq'ing... not to mention perfect recording scenario ..from fascility to player to instrument to equipment to engineer.


Urban radio music... with no EQ (or even "little EQ" in the Mix sounds like a farce to me)

[justin bendo]

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

Seems you misunderstand Dre and Denaun..

For you jumping to conclusions ?

Seems more like you're misunderstanding who you're talking to and what you're talking about...

I recorded one of the songs we're talking about-- I know what it sounded like whan I tracked it, and what it sounds like on the CD. The tracks don't sound like they were touched with EQ. I can sing several of the other songs I tracked with Denaun (which I haven't heard since)-- I know what they sounded like to tape, and back from tape.

Maybe the vocals were eq'd a bit-- I didn't record the vocals, so I don't know for sure. I doubt it was much, if at all.

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

Does that extend to MIXING this incredibly sharp, sonically-sculptured urban music of today? HELL NO!!!

"We don't use alot" "Maybe some" are Dre's own words about EQing.
Why don't you jump to conclusions somewhere else instead of jumping on me for your assumptions.

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

Urban radio music... with no EQ (or even "little EQ" in the Mix sounds like a farce to me)

Yeah, obviously there is a conspiracy-- a song can't be a "hit" or played on the radio unless it's eq'd ALOT,,, it's mandatory.

[justin bendo]

And here is Mauricio about recording the vocals for "in The Club";

How They Got That Sound


"We don't use the EQ, because most of the time it sounds good flat. If there's a need for it we'll engage it, but for 50 Cent on 'In Da Club' we didn't use any EQ.

Then it comes back into the SSL 4000 G with E modules (at Encore Studio) and we bring it back on the insert.
"There's a patch on the patch bay that says 'insert return,'" he continues, "and that's where we bring the vocal back into the insert return, because it's the shortest patch before you actually hear the vocal. It has the least amount of circuitry of anything in the channel, so you're bypassing the EQ, the dynamics.



Mauricio recorded the vocals for P.I.M.P., so I'm betting it's the same set-up.

[filterayok]

Originally Posted by justin bendo

"We don't use alot" "Maybe some" are Dre's own words about EQing.
Why don't you jump to conclusions somewhere else instead of jumping on me for your assumptions.

Actually, if we read the article:

We don�t use a lot of outboard gear,' Dre concurs. 'I doctor the vocal as far as de-essing and maybe some low-end EQ for the kicks. WE USE A LOT OF EQ ON THE CONSOLE AND ALL THE LIMITERS. Most of it comes out of the SSL and into the quad compressor. I like the sound of it on the mix bus. That�s the SSL quad compressor in the center of the console'.

dude the reason everyones buggin out is cuz your sayin shit that dont make sense to anyone... SOUND itself is simply AMPLITUDE and FREQUENCY... your suggesting the people that are at the TOP of this game avoid the manipulation of frequency through the most DIRECT and PRECISE tool, the equalizer... You should be respected for what you've done, but the very fact that you would take Denaun Porters causual blanket comment and turn it into the truth about Dr. Dre's mixing philosophy, says a bit i think...

When you are THERE mixing these records, i think we'd all love to know whats goin down, but if you dont ACTUALLY know i'd question here-say that seems suspect in the first place

[filterayok]

Originally Posted by justin bendo

And here is Mauricio about recording the vocals for "in The Club";

How They Got That Sound


"We don't use the EQ, because most of the time it sounds good flat. If there's a need for it we'll engage it, but for 50 Cent on 'In Da Club' we didn't use any EQ.

Then it comes back into the SSL 4000 G with E modules (at Encore Studio) and we bring it back on the insert.
"There's a patch on the patch bay that says 'insert return,'" he continues, "and that's where we bring the vocal back into the insert return, because it's the shortest patch before you actually hear the vocal. It has the least amount of circuitry of anything in the channel, so you're bypassing the EQ, the dynamics.



Mauricio recorded the vocals for P.I.M.P., so I'm betting it's the same set-up.

AGAIN this is VOCAL TRACKING, NOT MIXING... i dont track with eq either, has nothing to do with what your talking about... you cant mix without eq

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by filterayok

WE USE A LOT OF EQ ON THE CONSOLE AND ALL THE LIMITERS.

This is what I have been told about Dre's mixing style for years... from people who have been there... lots of processing on the console. Lots of SSL EQ's and channel compression.

[justin bendo]

Originally Posted by filterayok

the very fact that you would take Denaun Porters causual blanket comment and turn it into the truth about Dr. Dre's mixing philosophy, says a bit i think...

Wow, there is some really semantic "you didn't say please" type of stuff going on here in the hip hop forum. Maybe it should be renamed the "Jump To Conclusions" forum ?

I did not "turn" any statement into "the truth" about Dr. Dre's mixing style. I said he has his own style which I believe he does, and I said he does not use EQ-- which is true in his words. Someone else filled in the "he NEVER uses EQ for mixes ever, and that's the whole truth about Dr. Dre's mixes, forever and ever" in their own minds.

From my experience, having recorded tracks which were mixed by Dre (which was also not believed or understood at first here either...), the tracks sounded amazing going to tape since Denaun really shapes his sounds before tape. The mix of P.I.M.P. does not sound EQ'd to me, and I know what Denaun said-- regardless of the level of perception of that here.


What I believe Dre did do tp the mix (instead of "mandatory" EQing) was to blend it very well and add dynamics-- it has a snap and bump to it that the SSL bus compressor can do when used very well. It doesn't sound like EQ to me.

I'm not going to be posting much here anymore because this place seems a bit too jumpy and confrontational for me to want to contribute to. This isn't a court trial, I'm not responsible for people's reading comprehension here, and I 'm not into the abrasive and ill-percieved tone I've seen in this thread.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by justin bendo

Wow, there is some really semantic "you didn't say please" type of stuff going on here in the hip hop forum. Maybe it should be renamed the "Jump To Conclusions" forum ?

No, I think people were just reacting to something you said that seemed not plausible.

I did not "turn" any statement into "the truth" about Dr. Dre's mixing style. I said he has his own style which I believe he does, and I said he does not use EQ-- which is true in his words. Someone else filled in the "he NEVER uses EQ for mixes ever, and that's the whole truth about Dr. Dre's mixes, forever and ever" in their own minds.

Right... but you, as someone who may be in the know, made a blanket statement. "Dre does not use EQ", which just doesn't seem realistic to people. You didn't say he NEVER uses EQ, but you also mentioned that "EQ is optional", which seems ridiculous to anyone who does any type of mixing. Using EQ in the proper manner is the first tool in the arsenal of any mix engineer.

From my experience, having recorded tracks which were mixed by Dre (which was also not believed or understood at first here either...), the tracks sounded amazing going to tape since Denaun really shapes his sounds before tape. The mix of P.I.M.P. does not sound EQ'd to me, and I know what Denaun said-- regardless of the level of perception of that here.


What I believe Dre did do tp the mix (instead of "mandatory" EQing) was to blend it very well and add dynamics-- it has a snap and bump to it that the SSL bus compressor can do when used very well. It doesn't sound like EQ to me.

At the mixing stage, you should be using EQ to make everything fit, not drastic changes (unless they NEED to be made). So, it would make sense that they didn't seem completely altered. Also, at no point did anyone mention that anyone ever needs to perform "mandatory EQing" of anything.

I'm not going to be posting much here anymore because this place seems a bit too jumpy and confrontational for me to want to contribute to. This isn't a court trial, I'm not responsible for people's reading comprehension here, and I 'm not into the abrasive and ill-percieved tone I've seen in this thread.

I think you hit a nerve with your post... i think people were fairly respectful in their debating what you were saying. There was certainly no name calling, etc. If you feel you can't post here because of one thread, then that is your decision. But, we welcome you to share your knowledge if you choose to in the future.

[justin bendo]

Tony--

fair enough.

I've definately had different experiences than the "eq is mandatory" vibe going on here-- even lost a client due to eq'ing his mixes. So my experiences/views about eq'ing may not be shared here.

Also-- I guess the post that caused the mess, was a collection of random thoughts/memories about working with Denaun and Dre, and was percieved as a literal totalility.

No grudges.