Dave Pensado mix/Brian Gardener Master - Before and After

[idlabs]

This is an artist named Wiz Khalifa from Pittsburgh, PA, that I've worked with for the past 4 years or so. He was recently signed to Warner Bros. and we went to LA to mix a few of his songs w/ DP at Larrabee Studios. Brian "Big Bass" Gardener mastered them. I thought that you guys would wanna check out the before and afters, I know it's always been helpful for me when people have done similar things on Gearslutz.

About the song:

The beat was produced by The Resource (NY), with co-production by myself (E. Dan). I tracked everything on my DIGI002 rig. Vocal chain was U87 > Avalon Vt737sp > Rosetta AD to DIGI. Done at 24-bit/44.1k.

About the files:

1. My rough mix (ITB, Waves, UAD)
2. Dave Pensado mix (SSL K series, lots of outboard)
3. Brian Gardener master (No idea, wasn't there)

Sorry they are just snippets (and mp3's), it was the only way I could post them without ruffling feathers. Also the hook is (obviously) different on the rough version. We made some changes to it while we were mixing w/ DP.

Anyway, feel free to post comments, thoughts, whatever. Happy to share it, hope it helps or is at least interesting to some of you.

E

[sethdk]

I like the rough mix better than the dave pensado mix. Bottom seems more hip hop to me. Would love to have heard that mix mastered.

man i remember us spending $20k to mix a single 4X in SSL rooms in NYC and LA (dont wanna throw the eingineers under the bus w/ names) and the version that made the final cut was the ITB "ruff mix" from our spot.

[idlabs]

Originally Posted by sethdk

I like the rough mix better than the dave pensado mix. Bottom seems more hip hop to me. Would love to have heard that mix mastered.

man i remember us spending $20k to mix a single 4X in SSL rooms in NYC and LA and the version that made the final cut was the ITB "ruff mix" from the crib.

Thanks man. Nice to hear considering little old me mixed it on my little old LE system and Dave is Dave and mixed it on an SSL. Yeah, there is certain things about the rough I really like better. Certain things I love about DP's mix though as well, especially the Vox.

[Wiggum, Ralph]

I just checked just the first :30sec of all tracks.

I like the rough version, it was nice. I wouldnt say what I heard from Dave's mix would be "better" just more polished. The Kick is pointer(less bass also) and the bass really sits in the mix. But both are fine.

As far as Brian Mastering, that was also great. I'll check all three in their entirety when Im done making some music for the day.

[doorknocker]

I like the 'rough mix' the best by far. And it doesn't sound 'rough' at all.

[superburtm]

nice job on the rough mix

[O'Ryan]

yup the ruffs sounds better......and the mastered joint sounds good as well

[idlabs]

Wow. Thanks yall. My ego is inflating as I type this.

[Oscar]

Dave did his thing, especially with the bass track, but overall I prefer the rough mix too. No lie. I don't like how Dave pulled the organ that gets panned back and forth throughout the verses so far back in the mix. I really don't like the kick on Dave's mix. Also, I prefer the hook on the rough mix. If it was me I'd have Brian do a master on the rough mix and put it out that way (especially if Dave is getting any points). Either way, you're definitely doing it.

[adrianex]

Another vote on the rough mix...great job

[sedohr]

Originally Posted by adrianex

Another vote on the rough mix...great job

yup, sounds nice!

[illynoise]

liked all of the mixes, but I can see why Pensado mixes that way, you basically get a better master with his mix than the first one. Theres more freq's to work with in Mastering phase. The first mix is more like what my clients would want to hear out the door, but not what they really would need.

I like Dave's mix. It sounds more like what I think a record should. But I don't care for his kick. (Though I can see why he'd go in that direction after hearing the rough)

EDIT:

After listening more, I totally see where Dave is going He has better panning, more separation. He got rid of the siblance on the vocal and made the snare better. His bass is better as well. His placement of the shakers/hat make the beat groove more through the hook as well.


The only thing I really liked from the rough is having the organ parts during the verse louder, and there's this part in the hook that sounds like a string part. (cant totally tell what it is, but it happens in a triplet pattern following the bassline. It sounds like G, G#,A). It's so low in Dave's mix that it's almost missing. I like the role it plays in the rough.

Originally Posted by illynoise

liked all of the mixes, but I can see why Pensado mixes that way, you basically get a better master with his mix than the first one. Theres more freq's to work with in Mastering phase. The first mix is more like what my clients would want to hear out the door, but not what they really would need.

exactly

[Mr B.]

One more for the rough mix but I think dave s mix is more clean if you see what i mean.

You got the vibe man.

[idlabs]

Originally Posted by illynoise

liked all of the mixes, but I can see why Pensado mixes that way, you basically get a better master with his mix than the first one. Theres more freq's to work with in Mastering phase. The first mix is more like what my clients would want to hear out the door, but not what they really would need.

Yup, exactly how I felt.

[KingUgly]

Don't worry man, the master sounds great.

[chester]

both are nice, but dave's version got the better glue and verbs even if the kick does not have the same subbass, imho. also vocals are less sibilant, what i like. same goes to the organ which is less harsh to my ears, fits better into the song same goes to the piano, it is more in the back in dave's version.

but at the end, both did good work!

[rickrock305]

i'll preface by saying that the rough sounds really good.


but dave's mix just sounds more like a record, like a mix in the truest sense of the word. i feel like his mix glues together the elements a little better.

[vaesion]

what treatment does dave do to his vocals to make them sound the way they do.........is it just eq or a desser......
the vox in the itb mix has brighter vocals like the masterd version. apparently dave mixes so the highs can be boosted over the whole song in mastering.

[vaesion]

this was very cool of you man......
your mix is great. i like both of them

[3rdeyeKnight]

Nice work man. Thanks for sharing.

[filterayok]

this goes back to the "loudness wars"

did everyone remember to bring the gain down on the rough mix before you A/B'd them? I garuntee many of you would change your tune if you braught pensado's mix to the same level as the rough-----daves is much clearer, and more compact.... try it....this is why everyones obsessed with loudness--cuz louder often means better

[dissolva]

I preferred Dave's mix. Alot of subtle things that just took the song to the next level for me. I've been a fan of Wiz since I heard this track last year. I look forward to the final product!

[JGILL]

I think if Brain would of mastered your rough it would of been neck and neck. Both sound great. Two different ways of getting the same things. keep doin you.

[DaKid]

No sh!t...

I remember readin bout Wiz on allhiphop.com a while ago.... in the breeding ground.... the young kid got some talent... plus he's from pa!

I'll check out the joints tomorrow... but best of luck... It'd be nice to have another area blow in pa besides philly....

[Lourson]

a trick to check a mix has been to L2 it (let's say 3 or 4 db of attenuation) it and hear at what point things start to sounds really bad.

I'm able to push dave's mix pretty far in the L2, the rough mix not so much.

Even though dave's mix sounds less "imediatly pleasing" it's tighter all around, more "mastering ready" and a better starting point for a really good master.

[MarkusColeman]

I like Dave's mix better. cleaner and tighter.
but the clap/verb/snare on the 4 is too loud and the choir sample drops are too.
you can hear how Gardner tried to tame it in the master.
I liked the panning organs in the original, but if you listen to the mix in mono, you will understand why he pushed them back.
also try to swap the stereo on the whole mix and see if you like it better that way.
the panning doesn't sound right on many of the instruments.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by illynoise

liked all of the mixes, but I can see why Pensado mixes that way, you basically get a better master with his mix than the first one. Theres more freq's to work with in Mastering phase. The first mix is more like what my clients would want to hear out the door, but not what they really would need.

You make it sound like mixing is a scientific thing. I like the 'Rough' better because it sounds more musical and pleasing to my ears to me. If you like DP's mix better that's fine of course but to say 'I might not like it as much but it works better when slamming it with a L2' doesn't make sense. The ME will hopefully do more than just apply a L2 and so he'll be perfectly fine with the 'Rough' IMO.

[idlabs]

Originally Posted by vaesion

what treatment does dave do to his vocals to make them sound the way they do.........is it just eq or a desser......
the vox in the itb mix has brighter vocals like the masterd version. apparently dave mixes so the highs can be boosted over the whole song in mastering.

As I remember it, DP used the Waves RDeEsser into the BF Fairchild plug, then an REQ and into the Digi DeEsser. I know on one of the songs (not sure if it was this one) he ran the vox thru a Summit TLA-100 into an old "Motown" EQ. Not sure what it was exactly, but he said it was pulled from the Motown studios. He also did some additional EQ/Comp on the SSL. He's def not afraid to process the sh#t out of anything. Probably doesn't speak too well to my recording, but in fairness, I recorded this song a looong time ago.

I should also point out that the rough version is most certainly that. I mixed the original version of the song a few years back. About a month before we went to mix w/ DP, I revamped the original producers drums and added some keyboard parts and we did a new hook. I didn't really remix those new elements because by that point I knew DP was going to mix it, so I just did a quick ref mix for him to get the idea. I like what he did to it though, he is a great engineer, and wonderful guy. Also, his partner/assistant Jaycen Joshua, did alot of the mixing as well, particularly the drums and bass. DP would kinda let him do his thing, then step in and expand on what he had. They seem to have a nice tag-team sorta workflow.