Dave Pensado mix/Brian Gardener Master - Before and After

[PhonoquO]

I love Dave's mix! That kick is knocking so nice, and the snare has lot's of good meat and smack to it. His mix is nicely balanced and showcases the vocal performance best. BBass did a great job of bringing it up as well.

Dave's approach to this track was smart; he gave a modern feel to an old rnb vibe, which in my mind is exactly what the track needed. It's good to know your money was well spent! This mix will also translate well, i've tested it on 3 systems and was impressed with consistency which, in my mind, is the hardest thing to achieve.

Mark

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

With that said. I don't hear magic in Dave's mix either. But Honestly I don't hear magic in anything anymore. It's kinda like when you're a kid and you see a person sawed in half. Once you learn the secret to the trick (Not saying I know all mixing secrets either). It's no longer all that impressive.

3 things ive noticed in listening & reading:

1) The lack of the magic you are not hearing has more to do with the quality of songs in general. You can only do so much with what you are given.

2) Its possible the Dave P. was not the right person to mix the song. Not everyone is right for everything and not everyone's interpretation is the right one either.

3) The poster should have been more vocal in what he wanted instead of just trusting that DP would "do his thing". If it needs to sound closer to the rough this needs to be vocalised. Nowadays most rap producers do. The only problem is it can handcuff the person who is mixing but mixing hiphop nowadays is catch 22 anyway. The ruffs are usually what the vocals are layed down to and what captures the fire of the rapper to begin with so if you take it out of its state it changes the entire feel.

Mixing hiphop these days is really about making better & bigger sounding versions of the rough mixes. The mixer doesn't have as much input or space for creativity as let say 10-15 years ago.

[TonyBelmont]

So, I finally listened on my studio monitors....

Wow, it's amazing that the rough mix has been so well received by the majority of posters here.

Pensdao's mix is head and shoulders above the rough once you level match and really listen to things...

Some things to listen for....

The spacing of the instruments

The low end

The vocals (on the rough mix they are very peaky in the upper mids, much fuller sounding in DP's mix)

Presence on the snares/ claps

C'mon guys... this isn't even close.

Not trying to take anything away from you idlabs, but Pensado really worked this for you.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Mixing hiphop these days is really about making better & bigger sounding versions of the rough mixes. The mixer doesn't have as much input or space for creativity as let say 10-15 years ago.

Very true... everytime I recall a mix for someone.... the number one change that they ask for is to "make xxxxx sound more like the rough mix.... but better."

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Very true... everytime I recall a mix for someone.... the number one change that they ask for is to "make xxxxx sound more like the rough mix.... but better."

Same here.

Its also why i don't like mixing hiphop/rap anymore.

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

3 things ive noticed in listening & reading:

1) The lack of the magic you are not hearing has more to do with the quality of songs in general. You can only do so much with what you are given.

2) Its possible the Dave P. was not the right person to mix the song. Not everyone is right for everything and not everyone's interpretation is the right one either.

3) The poster should have been more vocal in what he wanted instead of just trusting that DP would "do his thing". If it needs to sound closer to the rough this needs to be vocalised. Nowadays most rap producers do. The only problem is it can handcuff the person who is mixing but mixing hiphop nowadays is catch 22 anyway. The ruffs are usually what the vocals are layed down to and what captures the fire of the rapper to begin with so if you take it out of its state it changes the entire feel.

Mixing hiphop these days is really about making better & bigger sounding versions of the rough mixes. The mixer doesn't have as much input or space for creativity as let say 10-15 years ago.

I agree. With what you're saying. In this particular case I think Dave did the mix well. My comments about the comparison to the rough is about the same as Tony's. I don't know what these guys are hearing but I don't hear the rough being even close.

In regards to the "magic" in stuff today. I'm SERIOUSLY thinking lately that the magic of records is not in the mix but in the groove. I think Sequenced elements kill that. I think we are not hearing "magic" because the way music is created is scientific (locked to a grid, or if not locked to a grid totally, locked because it loops every 4,8, or 16 bars.)

[mix-it-well]

Originally Posted by Lourson

a trick to check a mix has been to L2 it (let's say 3 or 4 db of attenuation) it and hear at what point things start to sounds really bad.

I'm able to push dave's mix pretty far in the L2, the rough mix not so much.

Even though dave's mix sounds less "imediatly pleasing" it's tighter all around, more "mastering ready" and a better starting point for a really good master.

ehhh thats beacuse the rough mix is a lot louder.
I wouldn't check a mix with a L2...unless you want to destroy it.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

I agree. With what you're saying. In this particular case I think Dave did the mix well. My comments about the comparison to the rough is about the same as Tony's. I don't know what these guys are hearing but I don't hear the rough being even close.

Dave P.'s mix is clearer and more seperated while the rough has the DAW smoky haze yet gels better which gives it a better feel over all.

Also on the rough the vocals are more up front which personally i like better.


In the end if the guy is happy with it that's what counts.

[Heezzi]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Dave P.'s mix is clearer and more seperated while the rough has the DAW smoky haze yet gels better which gives it a better feel over all.

Also on the rough the vocals are more up front which personally i like better.


In the end if the guy is happy with it that's what counts.

Right. Dave mix is step 1 of a two step process. His mix sets the mastering engineer to surpass the rough mix. Thats what counts.

[illynoise]

After reading almost every post in this thread I think that what I come away with is........

It's amazing what people can do with a Digi 002 and plugins apparently.

[Tony Shepperd]

After the week I had and reading this thread, I am almost convinced that there are certain styles of music that are not worth attempting to mix anymore.
It seems like the appreciation of the art and skill of what a mixer brings to the table are being lost on each successive generation.

[soultrane]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Pensdao's mix is head and shoulders above the rough once you level match and really listen to things...

Some things to listen for....

The spacing of the instruments

The low end

The vocals (on the rough mix they are very peaky in the upper mids, much fuller sounding in DP's mix)

Presence on the snares/ claps

C'mon guys... this isn't even close.

right, and how many people who potentially will buy this record will "really listen to things?"

do you think this guy will or will not become a major star based on the panning/spacing of the instruments?

i mean, i have to confess, i listened to these mixes through a cheap pair of sony headphones off of the computer... like probably 80 percent of the people who will potentially buy it will do..

it might be dom perignon, but if you're gonna pour it through a 30 foot garden hose, it might as well be mums...

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by soultrane

right, and how many people who potentially will buy this record will "really listen to things?"

there's a difference between listening to a good mix and hearing things in a good mix. the consumer listens to the overall quality of a mix and can pick a better mix, without saying "oh, the 120Hz range of the kick is f**cked up and the reverb on the snare that was only on the right side, Dave changed to appear on the left too. great mix!!!"

why is it so hard to believe that even though the majority of listeners don't look for a Sheakspeare piece over a hip hop beat, they still prefer good sounding music?

Originally Posted by soultrane

do you think this guy will or will not become a major star based on the panning/spacing of the instruments?

every teen can pick the better mix if you told her/him to pick one they like more.

Originally Posted by soultrane

i mean, i have to confess, i listened to these mixes through a cheap pair of sony headphones off of the computer... like probably 80 percent of the people who will potentially buy it will do..

it might be dom perignon, but if you're gonna pour it through a 30 foot garden hose, it might as well be mums...

you can listen to these mixes on a 10 dollar pair of headphones and you can still easily tell the difference between the three mixes. a good mix will translate well in your car, on your kitchen radio, headphones or studio monitors.

thats part of a "good mix"

Dave, I see you've made it out of the bat cave.

Welcome.

[Dave Pensado]

How have you guys been? It has been a minute since i moderated the forum on here, and that experience still remains one of my favorites of all time. It was great meeting some of you in person at SF AES. As you know, i take great pride in what i do, and feel that mixing is a most noble art. The gentleman that posted the various versions of "the Dave Pensado mix" has failed to completely paint an accurate picture of what Brian Gardner and I did. 1st, i agree with all of the comments. The ruff is clearly better! My dog can hear that. The main problem is the mix credited to me is not "MY MIX".

Sometimes in mixing for a client, my job is to give the client what they want. The mix you are hearing is what the poster and his partner wanted. I think the rough mix (which is actually a final mix that they spent quite a bit of time on, and the label rejected) is quite good. I would be happy to attach my name to it, I think it is THAT good. I AM GOING TO POST MY MIX VERY SOON. So please keep an eye out for it. I don't want this to be a contest, because I'm not sure who's mix i would choose! I just would appreciate it if people would give all the facts, and not "doctor" something they credit to me and Brian. Am i pissed, yeah, a little. Do i think the poster is a bad guy, absolutely not! He is very cool, and possesses a lot of talent. Next time, let's compare apples and apples, not apples and mixes that I don't put my name on.

[Dave Pensado]

Hi Jules, how have you been. when you get a chance please hit me.

[babyface_finsta]

[idlabs]

Originally Posted by Dave Pensado

How have you guys been? It has been a minute since i moderated the forum on here, and that experience still remains one of my favorites of all time. It was great meeting some of you in person at SF AES. As you know, i take great pride in what i do, and feel that mixing is a most noble art. The gentleman that posted the various versions of "the Dave Pensado mix" has failed to completely paint an accurate picture of what Brian Gardner and I did. 1st, i agree with all of the comments. The ruff is clearly better! My dog can hear that. The main problem is the mix credited to me is not "MY MIX".

Sometimes in mixing for a client, my job is to give the client what they want. The mix you are hearing is what the poster and his partner wanted. I think the rough mix (which is actually a final mix that they spent quite a bit of time on, and the label rejected) is quite good. I would be happy to attach my name to it, I think it is THAT good. I AM GOING TO POST MY MIX VERY SOON. So please keep an eye out for it. I don't want this to be a contest, because I'm not sure who's mix i would choose! I just would appreciate it if people would give all the facts, and not "doctor" something they credit to me and Brian. Am i pissed, yeah, a little. Do i think the poster is a bad guy, absolutely not! He is very cool, and possesses a lot of talent. Next time, let's compare apples and apples, not apples and mixes that I don't put my name on.

As i quietly await the poop to hit the fan, I would like to say that I stand by everything I have said in this thread about Dave's incredible mixing skills and wonderful personality. I was not aware that I was posting the wrong mix, but obviously I got my files messed up. And to Dave, I sincerely hope you see this thread for what it is: A tribute to your work (which I am a huge fan of, as I have told you in person). I hope your dog really has better hearing than that and you realize the inexperience that some of these posts praising my mix are based on. This post was supposed to show people the difference between a harsh ITB rough mix and an expertly done professional mix by a legend in the game. By this I hoped other up and commers such as myself could learn something about thier craft while comparing the two. Judging by the responses, there is alot of learning to be done. My mix would not be able to compete on radio or any form of broadcast/distribution, I cannot understand why that is not apparent to virtually everyone who has listened here. I dont know what else to say, and I apologize for any confusion on my part, as all of my intentions here were good.
E

[Beat God]

The plot thickens...

-BG

[swisha31]

Originally Posted by Dave Pensado

How have you guys been? It has been a minute since i moderated the forum on here, and that experience still remains one of my favorites of all time. It was great meeting some of you in person at SF AES. As you know, i take great pride in what i do, and feel that mixing is a most noble art. The gentleman that posted the various versions of "the Dave Pensado mix" has failed to completely paint an accurate picture of what Brian Gardner and I did. 1st, i agree with all of the comments. The ruff is clearly better! My dog can hear that. The main problem is the mix credited to me is not "MY MIX".

Sometimes in mixing for a client, my job is to give the client what they want. The mix you are hearing is what the poster and his partner wanted. I think the rough mix (which is actually a final mix that they spent quite a bit of time on, and the label rejected) is quite good. I would be happy to attach my name to it, I think it is THAT good. I AM GOING TO POST MY MIX VERY SOON. So please keep an eye out for it. I don't want this to be a contest, because I'm not sure who's mix i would choose! I just would appreciate it if people would give all the facts, and not "doctor" something they credit to me and Brian. Am i pissed, yeah, a little. Do i think the poster is a bad guy, absolutely not! He is very cool, and possesses a lot of talent. Next time, let's compare apples and apples, not apples and mixes that I don't put my name on.

wow....and he has spoken. i'm sure things are cleared right on up now.

[Dave Pensado]

Thanx again!

[deuc647]

Could these files be posted as a blind test?

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by Dave Pensado

Thanx again!

And that's why you hire a professional!
Great mix... as usual!

[Beat God]

could someone re-up the original files?

-BG

[idlabs]

So after a few frantic calls to my partner who attend the mix with me, it has been made abundantly clear to me that I did indeed post the wrong file. The file I posted as Dave's mix was indeed an early bounce of a work in progress. For any harm done I apologize immensly and I hope to be one day forgiven by both DP and my fellow gearslutz for being such a f$ckin dumbass. For any harm done I will solely take the blame. I am deeply saddend to think that I played any part in throwing salt on the name of someone as important to the art and skill of mixing records as is Dave. I truley hope this post is not taken that way an that all who read this understand my deep regrets in this situation.

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Duh Oh yeah OK (My bad).

LOL I thought you were disagreeing with me.

(I probably should actually read the posts LOL)

I'm still amazed that the majority of the people here like the rough more. While on my speakers Dave's mix is obviously better. Especially in the drums.

I'm wondering what people are listening for. If I did the rough, (as a rough mix,) the drums and vocals would be my focal point of what I wanted to fix (as well as getting some of the upper harmonics out of the bass so it would stand out on smaller systems.)

This is exactly what I think Dave P did.

What are you guys hearing that I'm not?


Forget who did it and what it was done on.

What are you guys hearing in the rough that makes it sound better to you?

I actually liked the rough better also. However, I do see how it can be better for the mastering process. I liked the snare and the organ better on the rough....but again, I'm listening on PC speakers.

Despite that though, overall the rough was better though...to me.

[illynoise]

Here's some food for thought:

If someone posted my mixes on the web everytime I did something, I KNOW I would be better at this point!

Originally Posted by Curve Dominant

My man,

I suspect it's going to take you a bit of time-distance before you truly appreciate what DP did with this track.

Your mix is OK. The sonics are not bad, at all, and a lot of the posters on this thread recognized that. But they are missing something more important: Your mix is cluttered.

DP stripped away the clutter. And in doing so, he brought out Wiz Khalifa's core essence as a rapper and an artist.

You can really hear it on the chorus: On your mix, you threw in everything you recorded. Sonically, it's fine. But artistically, the production distracts from what Khalifa is doing as a vocalist.

IMO, what DP did with his mix, was utterly brilliant (which is why he makes the big $$$). He brought Khalifa out from under that clutter, and made Khalifa sound like a STAR.

Which, like it or not, is really what this game is all about. It's about personalities. Not sonics. The star has to shine. That's what DP does, that's his genius. His mixes reveal the artist's core essence. Your mix, although cool sounding, didn't quite do that.

Congratulate yourself on producing a great track, I mean that. But as a producer, it behooves you to appreciate what great mixers like DP can do for your product. He definitely took what you did to the next level.

YMMV...

-Eric Vincent @ Studio Curve Dominant

So What did we learn today boys and girls?

That Dave is so special, He'll make you sound like a STAR Before he finishes the mix

He must be "utterly brilliant".