Producer / Engineer relationship?

[mindseye]

Do you guys think it is important that the engineer and the producer have a great chemistry to create fantastic product. Or, do you think great results can be gotten without that certain chemistry?

Or another question, do you think an engineer who really wasn't experienced mixing in a certain genre/style of music, would still be able to obtain stellar results just through close communication with the producer on that project?

Not sure if i've worded my post properly, but feel free to chime in !!

[ILLSON]

yea there def has to be some sort of a good vibe when an engineer works with a producer. but i think thats a given. that comes with alot of jobs where you'll be in close quarters with some one on a regular basis.

from my experience the producer will work more relaxed when they know they got someone there that is on top of thier engineering so the producer has to only worry about making dope music.

and on the new genre mixing question, i think that its something you have to learn from experience to get to work and that someone like the producer can definitely help with his input. do some research into that music as well. buy some music in the genre and compare it to what your working on

[mindseye]

I hear you ILLSON about the good vibe factor. I'm sure you've heard those stories of people hating/disliking each other, yet making incredible music together. Maybe those stories are just myths !! lol

I'm on the producer side of the fence, so really i was wondering if the genre differences could be a desired element when mixing, recording a project?

I know there are no hard rules with anything and people have diverse musical influences/tastes..but it seems that certain mixers/engineers are go to guys for cetain styles of music.

I guess it boils down to the producers vision and skill at communicating/executing it.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by mindseye

Do you guys think it is important that the engineer and the producer have a great chemistry to create fantastic product. Or, do you think great results can be gotten without that certain chemistry?

No its not necessary.

It does make the process more enjoyable but i've worked with a couple of producers that i couldn't stand but i was still able to deliver what they wanted.

I can tell you though i would never work with them again no matter how famous or how much money was offered.

Originally Posted by mindseye

Or another question, do you think an engineer who really wasn't experienced mixing in a certain genre/style of music, would still be able to obtain stellar results just through close communication with the producer on that project?

A great engineer is a great engineer no matter what the circumstances. The great ones just love good music and great songs so they are able to transcend the situation.

But part of being a succesful mixing engineer is understanding the genre and the likes and dislikes of its fans. Its not about just mixing from your point view but having a grasp of the target market. You have to be able to juggle both evenly. The "bigger picture" mentality.

This is why there are many engineers but only a few get to mix.

[riecespieces]

I disagree Ive never had that kind of relationship with any engineer ive worked with and have always had great results at the end of the day if ur both good at what u respectively do then the end results will show it. If something doesnt work all u have to do is tell im what u want.

[mindseye]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

No its not necessary.


A great engineer is a great engineer no matter what the circumstances. The great ones just love good music and great songs so they are able to transcend the situation.

But part of being a succesful mixing engineer is understanding the genre and the likes and dislikes of its fans. Its not about just mixing from your point view but having a grasp of the target market. You have to be able to juggle both evenly. The "bigger picture" mentality.

This is why there are many engineers but only a few get to mix.

thanks thethrillfactor, makes a lot of sense

[matthew.sawicki]

I think thethrillfactor got it on the head. As an engineer I don't always have the same relationship with everyone I work with, but the end game is always the same. Of course it does help to really click with the producer as everything really pops then.

Plus, it helps being a producer myself!

[Stitch333]

I think most great producers are also, at least, good engineers and vice-versa...

[mindseye]

thanks for the perspectives everyone , its been a question i've really been pondering lately.

it seems anything is obtainable when these two have a mutual connection/understanding.

[mindseye]

Dave Pensado mix/Brian Gardener Master - Before and After

this discussion puts into focus what i was trying to articulate with my original question

[thefirehooligan]

I think the Producer/Engineer relationship can be powerful if they mess together well. This isnt just related to Hiphop either. Alot of big Rock producers have Engineers they work with because they they work so well together.

I intern at a studio, and i track out my beats at home, and import the tracks into a template to bring them to the big studio and load them up and all the outputs and inputs are already set-up.

I'll be mixing and the house Engineer will come in and sit with me and just listen and sometimes drop some input on stuff. He tracks and mixes Rock mostly all day, So its a fresh change for him and he seems to enjoy it. And i learn a shit load from him.

If i was ever to work on a album, and had the budget, i would be working in that studio with him just because of this fact (that and i get a discount on the space at night, and would bring him in for the mix stage).

A good producer and a good engineer will bring good results, but i think a Great Producer that is working with a Great engineer who have a great relationship will work that much better.

I know when im assisting, the Engineer and I work without even talking, totaly non-verbal communication. Same when he is working with other Producers. We worked on tracking/Mixing an album. Him, The Producer, and I could communicate like that, greatest experience of my life.

Rob

[mindseye]

Originally Posted by thefirehooligan

I think the Producer/Engineer relationship can be powerful if they mess together well. This isnt just related to Hiphop either. Alot of big Rock producers have Engineers they work with because they they work so well together.

I intern at a studio, and i track out my beats at home, and import the tracks into a template to bring them to the big studio and load them up and all the outputs and inputs are already set-up.

I'll be mixing and the house Engineer will come in and sit with me and just listen and sometimes drop some input on stuff. He tracks and mixes Rock mostly all day, So its a fresh change for him and he seems to enjoy it. And i learn a shit load from him.

If i was ever to work on a album, and had the budget, i would be working in that studio with him just because of this fact (that and i get a discount on the space at night, and would bring him in for the mix stage).

A good producer and a good engineer will bring good results, but i think a Great Producer that is working with a Great engineer who have a great relationship will work that much better.

I know when im assisting, the Engineer and I work without even talking, totaly non-verbal communication. Same when he is working with other Producers. We worked on tracking/Mixing an album. Him, The Producer, and I could communicate like that, greatest experience of my life.

Rob

Thefirehooligan (Rob),

thanks for chiming in...your situation sounds great!

was there a conscious effort on your part to find that type of working vibe, or just luck? lol

do you feel more inspired knowing you have someone there who gets it and can assist you in reaching your creative goals?

[babyface_finsta]

To me it's all about mutual respect for one another... and realizing there talents... Engineers are usually very quirky individuals (but so are teachers, professors and any other geek)... and Producers (hip hop & r&b) are often harder to deal with than rappers and singers... that being said... if you focus on communication... have a common goal... buy lunch and give the engineer a co-producers credit (esp when they deserve one it's all gravy)...

But both need to listen more often... and learn from one another... save the "let me show you haw knowledgeable stuff alone) if you leave your ego and prejudices at home and make sure the bill is paid...

You both there because you got yourself there...

Producers just need to give the engineers a chance to get familiar with the song... then convey the direction... and let them... do them... when time and money...

Engineers need to respect the fact that producers have to live with the fact that they can make great music... but can't make their music sound great...

As a producer it's difficult to live with... thats why I show the utmost respect while they are working... and pick there brains for any info that will make me feel like I'm improving... after they done their job...

[thefirehooligan]

Well actually, I am a student of his kind of. Im going to school for engineering, and he is one of my lab instructors. So im learning from him twice over. He asked me to intern while im still in school, so im there about 30 hours a week. Mostly im cleaning, repairing cables, setting up mics, doing the patchbay, and running protools

I find it awesome that we have this whole non verbal communication thing going on. Plus he comes in to watch me work, because he wants to learn from me for a change.

Rob

[mindseye]

Originally Posted by thefirehooligan

Well actually, I am a student of his kind of. Im going to school for engineering, and he is one of my lab instructors. So im learning from him twice over. He asked me to intern while im still in school, so im there about 30 hours a week. Mostly im cleaning, repairing cables, setting up mics, doing the patchbay, and running protools

I find it awesome that we have this whole non verbal communication thing going on. Plus he comes in to watch me work, because he wants to learn from me for a change.

Rob

dope! thanks for your perspective

[Im That Guy]

Jus my 2 cents here.. but..

No it isnt necessary to make good music.. even great.

But look at what great collabs have brought us in the past. Like Timbo and Jimmy. Quincy and Bruce. I mean the list is endless.

These relationships are the be all and end all of the game were all playing. If not for the relationships that Ive formed with many great producers I would never be able to make this a carrer.

Nothing, and I truly believe nother will ever hold up to a team of great talents who specilize in different areas who are in the same room at the same time, vibin like a MF. Its freakin magic!

MH

[Atomic Dog]

In a producer/emcee relationship as a producer do you throw an immense amount of suggestions out? Things involving flow, cadence, or word placement? I always try to slip my input in whenever an idea comes into my mind, but at the same time feel i don't want to cross a line where he thinks I'm taking creative control.

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

In a producer/emcee relationship as a producer do you throw an immense amount of suggestions out? Things involving flow, cadence, or word placement? I always try to slip my input in whenever an idea comes into my mind, but at the same time feel i don't want to cross a line where he thinks I'm taking creative control.

I think the biggest deciding factors in this are 1) Whether the artist wants your opinioin, and 2) Whether your opinions are good.

If I feel my opinion is valued by the artist, then by all means I throw it out there if I think it's good constructive criticism. I don't ever make anyone feel as if I am trying to steer their project in any other direction than they want though.

Sometimes I feel that I don't have anything to add to the equation so I keep my mouth shut, haha.

[mindseye]

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

In a producer/emcee relationship as a producer do you throw an immense amount of suggestions out? Things involving flow, cadence, or word placement? I always try to slip my input in whenever an idea comes into my mind, but at the same time feel i don't want to cross a line where he thinks I'm taking creative control.

I feel you Atomic, I was mostly curious about the producer/engineer connection tho

Originally Posted by Im That Guy

These relationships are the be all and end all of the game were all playing. If not for the relationships that Ive formed with many great producers I would never be able to make this a carrer.

Nothing, and I truly believe nother will ever hold up to a team of great talents who specilize in different areas who are in the same room at the same time, vibin like a MF. Its freakin magic!

MH

Im That Guy, your comments confirm what i believe, yet hope to experience