Kontakt 2 vs. Akai s6000 ?!

[Versatile255]

i dont know where you heard that just blaze using battery ive seen a video where he actually played the drums livce for show me what you got so i dont think so. id say go hardware though but kontakt is good too and dont get a program or hardware just because a big producer has one get wat works for u.

[Rapslow]

jus blaze used it on the sample not the drums
thats what i read i from a magazine (probably remix)

and im not tryin to use it jus because jus blaze use it
im thinkin bout it because of the sound it can make lookin at just blaze's work

i seen the video he playin drums too
the songs very dynamic and all but the structure of the song is wack
YouTube - The Making of Show Me What You Got - 1500 or nothin
check that video out.
dude is ****in crazy on drums
jus blaze didnt actually do much on the drum

appereciate the advice
i might just go hardware like u said
but i wanna know if soft samplers can make top quality sound or not
anybody know??
thanks

[Tibbon]

The S-5/6000 don't impart anything special to the sounds. The filters and effects are very utilitarian and basically just "get the job done". It all sounds good, but it's not like an S-950 that it imparts something special to the sound.

There is absolutely NOTHING special about the converters on the S-5000/6000, so don't try to just something through it for extra mojo.

[d.dot]

The MPC4K has the same guts as the S 5/6K... Just a bit of trivia

[Versatile255]

softsamplers yeah they can theres hit records made through softsamplers its just a matter of comfort its wat u like and how it applies to you.

[Akronut]

Originally Posted by d.dot

The MPC4K has the same guts as the S 5/6K... Just a bit of trivia

Im pretty sure thats wrong, the 4000 has the "guts" of the Z4/Z8 sampler.

[Rapslow]

yea....thx for the advices.... appereciate it
i guess i have to experience with it to really find out..

and what is the best quality hardware sampler??
i only know about akai's and i dont really know bout emu or other stuff
im pretty sure theres better sampler than akai's right?
can someone giv me input on ur opinion?
thx a lot

[cynic one]

if you want a modern hardware sampler that SOUNDS excellent.....go for an emu ultra. they are cheap as hell on ebay these days. you can get an e5000 ultra for i think like $2-300 easy. however i do see some guy selling his for $700 fully loaded with a shitload of samples on the internal HD..... might be a cool pickup if you're looking to snatch sounds at the same time.

the filters on those things are downright evil.

[Rapslow]

cool thx cynic
yea ive only heard good things about those ultra samplers
maybe i should try that one
thanks for the dope suggestion!

[Versatile255]

also try a s950 those have a sound to it id reccomend that if you wanna go with akai.

[Rapslow]

yea
s950 im gonna get sooner or later..
i love the 12bit punchy drums..
im just waitin for ebay to upload a good clean one
i think the price of s950 is gonna jump in the future
only if they still work lol
thx versatile

[Versatile255]

Originally Posted by Rapslow

yea
s950 im gonna get sooner or later..
i love the 12bit punchy drums..
im just waitin for ebay to upload a good clean one
i think the price of s950 is gonna jump in the future
only if they still work lol
thx versatile

i saw one looked brand new last week it sold for 400.

[CJ1973]

Not sure if this is any help but I run Nuendo and have Halion 3. My primary sound card is RME Hammerfall on an external break out box (Multiface 2) and an ADAT connection to my 02R digital mixer.
I took an AKAI Piano Sample CD and loaded it onto my hardware Emu Ultra 4XT and software sampler. The results are as follows:
1. It took longer to load onto Halion (i have a very fast computer!) than the Emu (which I loaded through a Glyph CD SCSI)
2. Once loaded, I played the same piece of music through my master controllers - a ROland JD-800 and a Kurzweil Semi Weighted K2500S.
3. The EMu sounded MUCH punchier, phatter if you want to call it and had a BITE to it. THe Halion was more touching due to its lack of attack and sounded like it had some nice reverb but had NO bite. Emu added with a outboard reverb totally took the cake. Although Halion samples were warm and friendly, the EMU is what would deliver better in my opinion in a professional working mix.
I have used software samplers for a while now and wanted to go back to Hardware as I wanted to perhaps have the combination to get the best of both worlds. The Hardware sampler (emu in this case) is unbeatable by Halion 3. So I definitely suggest picking up a cheap old hardware sampler, and dedicate some channels to it. If you are professional, you wouldnt question this fact as you will know what the better sound is. And a message for those who bag old Hardware samplers, think again. You certainly are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CJ1973]

For Your information, I do have the above units as well as the software.
Like I did for Emu Vs Halion, I will in the coming week or 2, do a comparison between the AKAI 12bits and Kontakt.
My gut is saying AKai is going to take the cake. Emu certainly did!!!! Vs Halion. Time will tell.....

[Rapslow]

thx a lot CJ!!!

yea... software samplers sound so bad...
i went to native instrument website and listened to demos (kontakt, battery) and they suck!
i know softwares will catch up eventually... but for now
i guess ill try to use more hardware
im not willing to spend a couple of thousand dollars jus for ADDA converters... u know wat i mean
so yea thanks very much man

[Charlie-O]

in my opinon and I currently have 2 s1000 an MPC 4000 , battery, kontakt, exs24, just to name a few of the samplers I use. Now off top I love using my 4000. But compared to a softsampler, its sup slow on the loading. As far as sound, well an MPC is always gone bang, battery sounds good when routed wit the outputs, kontakt really reminds me of the sound of the 4000, like what you put in is the biggest part. Start wit good samples and things work out. The trax i make entirely on my 4000 they always sound a bit dark. Itb in logic using exs and my other samplers its sounds more seperated and wider, but the bang takes work. I have sample taken from my drum machines, and they sound really good itb, better than the stock material. Wich does softwamplers no justice.

[musaee]

Originally Posted by Rapslow

but i heard a lott of people say these software samplers sound sucks

but on the other hand, jus blaze used battery on "show me what you got"
and i loveeee the sound.

do you know how i can get top quality sound using software samplers?

Thanks!!

yo...put the "kingdom come" album on. listen to "show me what you got" for about 1 minute...then switch to "lost ones" or "30 something"

THAT is the difference btween software/hardware

just blaze on software
dre dre on a MPC 3000.

stunning!

[Dopamine]

<< The MPC4K has the same guts as the S 5/6K... Just a bit of trivia >>

WRONG! The S 5/6K was released in '98. The MPC4K was released 4 years later and has the sampling engine from the Z8. (24-bit, etc.)

[Versatile255]

Originally Posted by musaee

yo...put the "kingdom come" album on. listen to "show me what you got" for about 1 minute...then switch to "lost ones" or "30 something"

THAT is the difference btween software/hardware

just blaze on software
dre dre on a MPC 3000.

stunning!

wrong just blaze also uses hardware too all he uses is sound modules and mpc 4000.

[musaee]

Originally Posted by Versatile255

wrong just blaze also uses hardware too all he uses is sound modules and mpc 4000.

1.you are wrong...blaze said he stopped using the 4000 and did not use it on show me what you got.
2. the MP purist in me would say the difference between a mpc 4000 and softsamplers is negligible. As it is the thinnest sounding MP ever made.
3. it could be the terrible mixing done at baseline (if thats where it was mixed...i heard just say they started the mix at baseline and he finished it on his laptop on a plane with headphones...guess that could explain it too)
4. if you go to late registration...and listen to "touch the sky" (done by blaze) and then listen to 1 of the kanye tracks...the thinness again rears its head comparatively

[Versatile255]

Originally Posted by musaee

1.you are wrong...blaze said he stopped using the 4000 and did not use it on show me what you got.
2. the MP purist in me would say the difference between a mpc 4000 and softsamplers is negligible. As it is the thinnest sounding MP ever made.
3. it could be the terrible mixing done at baseline (if thats where it was mixed...i heard just say they started the mix at baseline and he finished it on his laptop on a plane with headphones...guess that could explain it too)
4. if you go to late registration...and listen to "touch the sky" (done by blaze) and then listen to 1 of the kanye tracks...the thinness again rears its head comparatively

might be right ive think ive heard this before but he still uses the mp because he did on the tracks he did for ti.

[khameln]

Originally Posted by musaee

1.you are wrong...blaze said he stopped using the 4000 and did not use it on show me what you got.
2. the MP purist in me would say the difference between a mpc 4000 and softsamplers is negligible. As it is the thinnest sounding MP ever made.
3. it could be the terrible mixing done at baseline (if thats where it was mixed...i heard just say they started the mix at baseline and he finished it on his laptop on a plane with headphones...guess that could explain it too)
4. if you go to late registration...and listen to "touch the sky" (done by blaze) and then listen to 1 of the kanye tracks...the thinness again rears its head comparatively

Naw he still uses it.

And, kanye's tracks are done almost entirely on the asr and he's notorious for using thin and lowbudget drums, so I wouldn't use him as a sonic model. His tracks always sound worse than everybody, hardware or software (listen to Wouldn't Get Far next to the rest of Game's album).

[Tibbon]

Come on guys, the point of a sampler is to accurately capture a sound and reproduce it. What you're praising here seems to be a lack of headroom and poor conversion of the sound on older Akai models (mpc60, 3000, 950, etc...).

Battery isn't a "thin" sampler, nor is the S6000 or mpc4000. They are accurate and have relatively clean conversion. Keep in mind that these all have digital i/o as well, and you can hook them up to a DAC-1 if you'd like as well, or to a shit behiringer convertor.

People will never be happy with digital products that the companies put out. The companies are either blamed with them being 'inaccurate' as people were claiming that Protools HD and a 192 removed so much bass a while back (which was wrong and a stupid argeument), or they will call things 'thin' for not inducing massive amounts of distortion.

How about this? Have the cleanest sampler and DAW possible. If you want dirt, then have things that can induce that for you as well. But start clean, and go from there.

If you can't make a decent sounding beat on an MPC4000, then I'd say you can't make a decent sounding beat, and if on mixdown you can't make it sound decent... then you were either using crap samples or you're a shitty engineer. Don't blame the machine, perhaps look at the user.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

The S-5/6000 don't impart anything special to the sounds. The filters and effects are very utilitarian and basically just "get the job done". It all sounds good, but it's not like an S-950 that it imparts something special to the sound.

There is absolutely NOTHING special about the converters on the S-5000/6000, so don't try to just something through it for extra mojo.

I have an S5k and have had over the years: S950, S1000, S3000XL.
All these samplers sound great and all are very sonically similar. IMO are WAY more than 'get the job done' pieces.
The 'something special' you are hearing that has the S950 stand out is 12 bit sampling as opposed to 16 bit.

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by khameln

Naw he still uses it.

And, kanye's tracks are done almost entirely on the asr and he's notorious for using thin and lowbudget drums, so I wouldn't use him as a sonic model.

listen to "without you" feat. Snoop. Kanye's tracks are done in Pro Tools mostly.
but its true - "low drums mostly".

LOL

(listen to the whistle )
thats why I like his tracks. go with Kontakt.
I loved the S6000 before I started to write code.
it was so nice to hold this big ass screen in both your hands and layer away.
but how are you gonna supposed to play while you hold it?

[cynic one]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Come on guys, the point of a sampler is to accurately capture a sound and reproduce it. What you're praising here seems to be a lack of headroom and poor conversion of the sound on older Akai models (mpc60, 3000, 950, etc...).

Battery isn't a "thin" sampler, nor is the S6000 or mpc4000. They are accurate and have relatively clean conversion. Keep in mind that these all have digital i/o as well, and you can hook them up to a DAC-1 if you'd like as well, or to a shit behiringer convertor.

People will never be happy with digital products that the companies put out. The companies are either blamed with them being 'inaccurate' as people were claiming that Protools HD and a 192 removed so much bass a while back (which was wrong and a stupid argeument), or they will call things 'thin' for not inducing massive amounts of distortion.

How about this? Have the cleanest sampler and DAW possible. If you want dirt, then have things that can induce that for you as well. But start clean, and go from there.

If you can't make a decent sounding beat on an MPC4000, then I'd say you can't make a decent sounding beat, and if on mixdown you can't make it sound decent... then you were either using crap samples or you're a shitty engineer. Don't blame the machine, perhaps look at the user.

thumbsup

i think i'm just gonna save this and just repost every time i hear someone making that lame ass argument

i'm still saying though - there's a market out here for a "dirty box". something you could pipe audio into from your DAW and make it sound like a sp12, or a s950, or mpc3000...........

some company is gonna jump on that with "vintage" DACs and make a killing. i'd buy one :p

on that same topic - the UAD space echo's distortion is dope for this type of thing, when combined with a bitcrusher :p

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by cynic

thumbsup

i think i'm just gonna save this and just repost every time i hear someone making that lame ass argument

you know we're on the same page. I'm in talks with a company which specializes in "vintage sound". I'm gonna talk to Gol about intergrating "this" sound in FL8 - I'm gonna get the patents this week.

no need for vintage gear anymore. trust me. I was surprised after hearing the results - now I'm into signing the deal.
its gonna be out for Christmas Eve. I promise.

[cynic one]

Originally Posted by MarkusColeman

you know we're on the same page. I'm in talks with a company which specializes in "vintage sound". I'm gonna talk to Gol about intergrating "this" sound in FL8 - I'm gonna get the patents this week.

no need for vintage gear anymore. trust me. I was surprised after hearing the results - now I'm into signing the deal.
its gonna be out for Christmas Eve. I promise.

damn dude, you're actually getting Gol to implement something in FL??? i'm impressed......can't wait to check it out. shoot me a beta

[WhyBe]

Originally Posted by cynic

thumbsup

some company is gonna jump on that with "vintage" DACs and make a killing. i'd buy one :p

Emulator X has an SP12 insert effect to give it that vintage cruchy sound. Sounds good to me.

There are also plenty of plugins available for DAWs to give that old 8bit/12bit, low sample rate sound of the old hardware.