recording raw vocals in home studio to send to pro studio

[eleviah]

What up slutzville. I am getting some equipment to build a home studio for the sole purpose of recording rap vocals to send out to a pro studio to get mixed and mastered. What equipment will get the job done on a budget of $1000?

All that nonesense about -20b on a v5674 via p098 is all chinese to me. So please dont attack me with that tech stuff, ive read a LOT of threads here and fell more confused than i was before i came here.

It seems that i just boils down to opnion...

If anyone one has the time, please respond, your input would be very helpfull.

[matthew.sawicki]

How much gear do you have? How much gear do you want?

Just a shot in the dark on this...

I'd say get an Mbox 2, a Rode NT-1a (or something similar but more to your taste...), and a cheap set of monitors...

That should be well under a grand.

[Darm]

i think you should get a booth too...

[FULL-DUPLEX]

Get a sE Reflexion Filter and a used Shure SM-7b...

[eleviah]

Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki

How much gear do you have? How much gear do you want?

Just a shot in the dark on this...

I'd say get an Mbox 2, a Rode NT-1a (or something similar but more to your taste...), and a cheap set of monitors...

That should be well under a grand.

Honestly, i got a MXL 990 condensor on magami cables hooked up to a cheap Berhinger mixer (50 bucks) thats connected to my pc via cheap soundcard. So i'm looking to go firewire. If i were to get an mbox2 or somthing similar, should i get an extra external preamp or just have the studio engineer beef up the vocals?

[eleviah]

Originally Posted by Darm

i think you should get a booth too...

mos def. i got an idea to make it simple yet (hopefully) effective. When i get it up i will post a pic.....should be done by this weekend.

[eleviah]

Originally Posted by FULL-DUPLEX

Get a sE Reflexion Filter and a used Shure SM-7b...

word, that reflexion looks tempting...does it actually work though?

Shure-7b...man, a lot of people say its good, and others say its wack. Have you used this mic before?

One thing that really sucks is that at the local gear stores out here, you are NOT allowed to bring mics back. some kind of health issue i guess. I keep hearing people say to try out as many mics as u can so u can find the one that fits your voice, but how????

[abstract]

I've used the reflexion filter with a dbx compressor and i've gotten good results. Not saying it's the best way to track vocals but it is mos def a way!

[matthew.sawicki]

Alrighty...

What I think would work ideally would be an Mbox 2 (if you wanna go ProTools... which you probably do if you're going to be sending off to mixers with PT...), a nice Mic around $200-$300 (AT3035, NT1-a, C1, KSM27), and either a set of cheap monitors or good headphones.

That would put you around $1000, and set you up to send your sessions for professional mixing.

[eleviah]

Originally Posted by abstract

I've used the reflexion filter with a dbx compressor and i've gotten good results. Not saying it's the best way to track vocals but it is mos def a way!

dopeskies

[eleviah]

Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki

Alrighty...

What I think would work ideally would be an Mbox 2 (if you wanna go ProTools... which you probably do if you're going to be sending off to mixers with PT...), a nice Mic around $200-$300 (AT3035, NT1-a, C1, KSM27), and either a set of cheap monitors or good headphones.

That would put you around $1000, and set you up to send your sessions for professional mixing.

Dope man, thanks for you input. I looked at the ksm27 and its seems pretty cool. As for the mbox2, i think, based on all the opionos on this board, that its a no brainer if you wann go pro tools le. How about if you wanted to go cubase? Any suggestions on something that would be comparable to the mbox?

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by eleviah

Dope man, thanks for you input. I looked at the ksm27 and its seems pretty cool. As for the mbox2, i think, based on all the opionos on this board, that its a no brainer if you wann go pro tools le. How about if you wanted to go cubase? Any suggestions on something that would be comparable to the mbox?

Well... I have no opinion on that really. I'm a PT guy, and the only stuff I work on is PT. I would definitely figure out what your mixer works with, what he accepts, and what he personally wants you to send him before I'd buy anything.

Then just substitute in whatever program/interface you decide works for you.

[MrT]

does it honestly matter what the mixer uses? I'd think anyone could use waves so long as they start at the begining of the track... It's not like he's sending out a whole song. Just some vocal tracks.

[Stitch333]

remember---> garbage in, garbage out

that said, Full-Dup prob has the best route- mic 1st.
The rest is debatable in order of importance: (quasi)room treatment, A/D, micpre, dynamics, etc
Ive been hearing good things about the Avantone tube mic...399
I was hot on my Karma K55 modded out (maybe 500 tops) til I got me U87 back from the shop. One of my clients picked that K55 over a soundelux.

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by MrT

does it honestly matter what the mixer uses? I'd think anyone could use waves so long as they start at the begining of the track... It's not like he's sending out a whole song. Just some vocal tracks.

I totally know where you're coming from, and I totally agree. It doesn't matter. Buuuuut... sometimes when I work with people that work in different programs with different standards, things take a bit longer to get going than they do when we're all on the same page.

Sometimes (but definitely not always) it's easier said than done.

Originally Posted by Stitch333

remember---> garbage in, garbage out

that said, Full-Dup prob has the best route- mic 1st.
The rest is debatable in order of importance: (quasi)room treatment, A/D, micpre, dynamics, etc
Ive been hearing good things about the Avantone tube mic...399
I was hot on my Karma K55 modded out (maybe 500 tops) til I got me U87 back from the shop. One of my clients picked that K55 over a soundelux.

As much as I agree with garbage in = garbage out, there are a lot of things to be covered in this $1000 suggested budget that don't afford many options. And for the most part... none of them are going to be outstanding options, but they'll be options that work and get the show on the road. Upgrading as a lot easier to do once you have a stable foundation... so I don't think that dropping almost half the budget on a mic that is marginally better than ones half it's price is necessarily a path to follow when an entire system has to be bought as well. Cables, pop filter, stands, headphones, etc.. all eat up a budget too, and it's easy to overlook in early plans.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki

As much as I agree with garbage in = garbage out, there are a lot of things to be covered in this $1000 suggested budget that don't afford many options. And for the most part... none of them are going to be outstanding options, but they'll be options that work and get the show on the road. Upgrading as a lot easier to do once you have a stable foundation... so I don't think that dropping almost half the budget on a mic that is marginally better than ones half it's price is necessarily a path to follow when an entire system has to be bought as well. Cables, pop filter, stands, headphones, etc.. all eat up a budget too, and it's easy to overlook in early plans.

used apogee mini-me (preamp/ad) 700 - even cheap-ass sound cards have spdif at this point.
Karma K58 tube mic 299


-the mod, FWIW- NOS 12au7, gotham gac3
7pin tubemic cable, a bunch of wima and nichicon caps 100-150 (not including the work). If you really want to go over the top, replace the capsule with a peluso. All told, it'll be maybe 700 and the mic will perform like 2 x, 3 x that.

The key is getting the quality recorded material to the DAW. If its being mixed by someone else, everything else is peripheral. Your suggesting this dood get speakers and headphones? Naaaa, just take your old walkman headphones just to hear the beat while you record and plug your monitor outs from the DAW to a home-stereo. If you really want to hear how it came out, burn a cd and play it in a friends system or your car. It wont be a perfect reference but at least you'll know how the recordings are sitting.
Again I'll mention my experience that my client picked the modded Karma over a 1500 mic. Thats a bit more than a marginal difference. + I would imagine if dood already has a MXL LDC, he has all the accessory crap you'd need (popscreen, cables, micstand, etc).

Any way you go with that budget, eleviah, its gonna be tight and corners will be kut.

whatever...

[Killah_Trakz]

Rode NTK is like a mic i seen in everyone stu from major's to indie to basement labs.And do a search on our classifieds here youll find some good stuff!

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

Your suggesting this dood get speakers and headphones?

Well... that's actually not what I'm suggesting at all.

Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki

and either a set of cheap monitors or good headphones.

That or is definitely not and.

But...

Originally Posted by Stitch333

just take your old walkman headphones just to hear the beat while you record

I have to say that I think you're not really looking out for the OP, but more so just trying to hype how some microphone mod you love is what he should do.

Suggesting that instead of using quality headphones he blow extra money on some microphone that may or may not sound better than other cheaper alternatives is silly.

When the OP sends his session off for a mix, and the mixer sends it back because the BS headphones he was using bled like crazy into his "modded" mic, its really not gonna do a whole lot of good is it? Plus, who really doesn't want to at least try to mix their stuff a little? At least if he buys a decent set of headphones, what he's hearing will be marginally accurate.

Originally Posted by Stitch333

used apogee mini-me (preamp/ad) 700 - even cheap-ass sound cards have spdif at this point.

The key is getting the quality recorded material to the DAW. If its being mixed by someone else, everything else is peripheral.

Is there a DAW at this point? I don't think the OP mentioned one at all... and if I'm correct neither have you. But you have mentioned lots of overpriced AD's and mic's that would kill his budget to buy a quality DAW in each situation you've suggested.

Originally Posted by Stitch333

I would imagine if dood already has a MXL LDC, he has all the accessory crap you'd need (popscreen, cables, micstand, etc).

I totally forgot about that, just make sure the stuff you may already have is up to par for the job.

Originally Posted by Stitch333

Any way you go with that budget, eleviah, its gonna be tight and corners will be kut.

Tru dat. I think if the budget was about $500 higher... we'd both be a lot happier with the suggestions we'd be able to make!

[TheGetDown]

No need for Pro Tools, all you'll need is .Wav files to send off to the engineer, and any program will get you there. Also, I honestly dont think you'd be too happy with the pres on the Mbox.

I say buy a used Apogee mini-me USB (good stereo preamp AND A/D) for about $600,
Buy a used NTK for about $300, and spend $100 building a half-ass vocal booth. If you have a little extra to spend, get some sony MDR-7506 headphones

I think that setup would be the most quality for the buck, and would be future proof for upgrading.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki

Well... that's actually not what I'm suggesting at all.


That or is definitely not and.

But...



I have to say that I think you're not really looking out for the OP, but more so just trying to hype how some microphone mod you love is what he should do.

Suggesting that instead of using quality headphones he blow extra money on some microphone that may or may not sound better than other cheaper alternatives is silly.

When the OP sends his session off for a mix, and the mixer sends it back because the BS headphones he was using bled like crazy into his "modded" mic, its really not gonna do a whole lot of good is it? Plus, who really doesn't want to at least try to mix their stuff a little? At least if he buys a decent set of headphones, what he's hearing will be marginally accurate.



Is there a DAW at this point? I don't think the OP mentioned one at all... and if I'm correct neither have you. But you have mentioned lots of overpriced AD's and mic's that would kill his budget to buy a quality DAW in each situation you've suggested.



I totally forgot about that, just make sure the stuff you may already have is up to par for the job.



Tru dat. I think if the budget was about $500 higher... we'd both be a lot happier with the suggestions we'd be able to make!

If he has a soundcard on his PC, youd think he probably has some sort of software, right? So why bother throwing that wrench in the works. As far as mics, how the **** is suggesting two mics that cost the same as any other suggestion in this thread 'killing his budget'? Not only that, Ive used many of the Rode mics, and short of the original rode classic, I dont find them to be that great...SE, Karma, SP, Shure, avantone, shinybox ribbons, even cascade all make decent mics for the price...Rode has kinda turned into the Wallmart of microphones
As for the mini-me, it knocks out two probs with one solution, micpre and AD...that will deliver quality...
Now, as for mentioning the modification of cheap mics, I bring it up as an example of how to get quality for not so serious money that has been very successful for me (also its a good thing to learn about how the gear in your studio actually works). The only reason I can think of that you'd think its 'BS' is because you need to buy at Guitar center and open the package of a product you read about or saw at 'blah-se-blahs' studio. Can you say, c-a-p-a-c-i-t-o-r? I know its a big word but you might just figure out that it, as with every other component in the signal path, has an impact on the output quality of audio equipment...
Oh yeah...Mbox's SUCK-ASS

[FULL-DUPLEX]

Originally Posted by eleviah

word, that reflexion looks tempting...does it actually work though?

Shure-7b...man, a lot of people say its good, and others say its wack. Have you used this mic before?

The reflexion filter is on my purchase list! The Shure SM-7b is a classic, I have found out that it fits on most voices and another benefit is that your sound is drier due to fact that is not a condenser mic, which catches more of a room resp. bad room! Another nice mic is the Studio Projects C1 which a friend of mine has and the results were also very nice.

The Apogee Mini-Me is a great recommendation! With it you´ll have great convertors and a good preamp. A cheaper sollution would be a Lnyx One soundcard combined with a Rane MS-1b preamp. I don´t know how much better the Apogee convertors are, but the Lynx One soundcard is a nice, fast, stable soundcard and a lot of GS-members like the Rane MS-1b preamp. If your looking at the used market the Lynx One costs approx. 220,-- USD and the Rane MS-1b approx. 140,-- USD (at eBay the lowest price was 60 bucks).

If you want a good cheap compressor for tracking and saving clipping than you must look for the DBX 160x... Save this classic gear.

Regards,

F.D.

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by FULL-DUPLEX

The reflexion filter is on my purchase list! The Shure SM-7b is a classic, I have found out that it fits on most voices and another benefit is that your sound is drier due to fact that is not a condenser mic, which catches more of a room resp. bad room! Another nice mic is the Studio Projects C1 which a friend of mine has and the results were also very nice.

The Apogee Mini-Me is a great recommendation! With it you´ll have great convertors and a good preamp. A cheaper sollution would be a Lnyx One soundcard combined with a Rane MS-1b preamp. I don´t know how much better the Apogee convertors are, but the Lynx One soundcard is a nice, fast, stable soundcard and a lot of GS-members like the Rane MS-1b preamp. If your looking at the used market the Lynx One costs approx. 220,-- USD and the Rane MS-1b approx. 140,-- USD (at eBay the lowest price was 60 bucks).

If you want a good cheap compressor for tracking and saving clipping than you must look for the DBX 160x... Save this classic gear.

Regards,

F.D.

I think that if he's looking to be sending off to a mixer, possibly investing in a comp isn't a good route. I know that if I'm mixing for someone and they've printed really crappy compression, there's nothing I can do to get it remotely close to where I would have it without the comp.

The Lynx and the Rane sound like a good plan to me as well...

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

The only reason I can think of that you'd think its 'BS' is because you need to buy at Guitar center and open the package of a product you read about or saw at 'blah-se-blahs' studio. Can you say, c-a-p-a-c-i-t-o-r? I know its a big word but you might just figure out that it, as with every other component in the signal path, has an impact on the output quality of audio equipment...
Oh yeah...Mbox's SUCK-ASS

Look bud, I don't know what makes you think I'm some sort of lackie moron, but I'm not. Chill out with your accusations of my lack of knowledge, as you have no idea who I am or what I do, neither of which should matter anyways.

Yes. Mbox's do suck ass, but so does anything in that price range when compared to quality rigs. I was suggesting it (and was even very adamant about him finding out what his mixer might want/prefer instead) PT cause I work in PT. And no, I don't have an Mbox.

Your thoughts on the Rode may have merit though, which is why I suggested he look at other mic's in the price range and decide for himself. I personally like the sound of the NT1-a, which is why I suggested it, but I also suggested a few other cheap alternatives.

I really have nothing against the gear you've suggested, other than I think it's too pricey for what the posters budget was.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki

Look bud, I don't know what makes you think I'm some sort of lackie moron

....

[Eigenwert]

There´s also a reflexion filter by sm pro audio called "mic thing". It´s less expensive and it includes a mic stand. Works for me.

[eleviah]

so a rane ms 1b compared to a presonus tubepre.....how big is the difference? is it worth the extra 50 bucks?