Jay Dee's licks / Bassline Technique - NOT his mixdown / keyboard used or whatever

[khameln]

Originally Posted by Kool J Gheezy

I forgot : @khamel : I'm not talking about 4 bars. I'm talking about like 8 or 16. hahahaha. now really tho, I'm lookin for more variation than just 4 bars.

lates,

J

8 or 16 is barely more than 4 :D Especially compared to doing a 2-hour concert... I think you're defeating yourself before the battle starts!

You are capable of learning to play a funky 16 bar bassline on a track. Just do it.

[Barilla]

Originally Posted by wizzle

Keep the questions coming. This is fun. It brings back alot of memories.

Was Dilla using any SSL stuff (boards or outboard?) on any of his material? Was listening to Donuts again recently, actually. Great stuff.

[wizzle]

No......he didnt use any SSL stuff. A few posts ago, I stated exactly what he used. Kool, watch these YouTube videos of my man Black Milk. It'll show you exactly what Dilla was doing as far as basslines are concerned.

YouTube - Black Milk - Interview Part 1

YouTube - Black Milk - Interview Part 2

[affinitysound]

got a question.....how did dilla put his beats together on the mpc? did he use song mode and organize a bunch of sequences or did he just make one long sequence?

[wizzle]

Song mode.....

[affinitysound]

if i could've witness jay dee makin a beat .....it woulda been between "climax".....or "Don't Cry" off of donuts. The way he chopped those two was amazing. I remember when i was younger... i never was really into hip hop, in fact i didnt really like it at all. But i remember i was at my friends house, and he was playin runnin by the pharcyde, and for some reason i was obsessed with anything Dilla made after that point. Dilla turned me overnight into a hip hop fanatic. thats how powerful his music was. undeniably good music.

[Kool J Gheezy]

"got a question.....how did dilla put his beats together on the mpc? did he use song mode and organize a bunch of sequences or did he just make one long sequence?" (yea i know there's the quote feature...)

c'mon, gimme a break... but then again I'm sitting in the glasshouse myself I reckon. just the kinda guy I am tho...

@affinity : everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but:

save the eulogies for church dude. I started out listening to rap back in 94 (I'm 23 now) and from the first day it was on...no need to turn me around. as a matter of fact, I'm today less "obsessed" with it than I ever was, I've opened up to all kinds of good music in the course of time. there was even a period when I put hiphop down completely and wouldn't listen to anything but jazz because I wasn't feeling the raps anymore, too much BS and the production had changed! then the Stones Throw era commenced...

Jay Dee was a talented guy and he did some amazing things no doubt. but I'm growing really tired of reading about the more or less so recently proselytized hyping the friggin donuts album. I understand the hype, but I don't believe it. It's just a bunch of loops man. Tight loops, too. But you can't tell me that's some new groundbreaking approach to the music or style or "back to the roots kinda thing". Cats have been looping up soul music for like almost 20 years now.

What happened was you had a recuperating / struggling with his health J. Yancey doing what he could with the little he had in a hospital room. I bet he felt awful all the way and he might have been in pain. C'mon, smell the coffee... that's not when you're at your best.
His very untimely death - he was one of my heroes I'll never get to see on stage anymore in my lifetime - sort of created a great marketing opportunity for everything "dilla-related". which makes my stomach churn and at the same time drives a tear to my eye wondering why the industry works like that - everybody having slept on him for years, but now that he's dead, he's really cool. no pun intended.

I've also heard Jay Dee never missed a beat. Well, Madlib says 50% of his stuff he doesn't like and I reckon that fit Jay Dee as well. Everything can't be great, not even when you've attained legend status. Check out the track "Hambro" (i think that's the name) on the Unreleased Instrumental EP. Had I done that, cats would have told me it sucked. Likewise for the Donuts tracks. Had anybody else done it, some noname on myspace such as myself, you'd not given it a second listen, let alone spend $$$ on the album, merchandise and the like... good thing for Stones Throw and Ms. Yancey tho, someone's gotta pay those hospital bills. It's a shame the richest country in the world is also ranking highest when it comes to the unequal distribution of wealth, won't even afford its citizens public health care like we have in Europe. or rather, "still" have...wind of change's blowin hard over here. sorry about the digression.

Appreciate everybody's interest in the thread,

Sorry about the off topic commentary, crossed the line, but I'm aware of my sins and I regret,

Later,

J

[wizzle]

Kool.......you're speaking very out of turn here. You have NO idea what was REALLY going on the last years of his life, what the hospital bills were like, how much pain he was in, or to say that Donuts isn't great. That's your opinion on that album though. You would have had to be in Detroit, in California, picking up checks from people, seeing Dilla lose and gain weight everytime you saw him, taking whim where he needed to go, making sure Mrs. Yancey was cool, picking up checks from all over the city........it was hard. I'm very sensitive about this subject and HATE when people speak negative about Dilla at all. Even though he cursed me out on a few occasions. LOL!!!!! Please don't speak of what you don't know first hand.

[Methlab]

For the basslines, I played for a lot of guys in sessions and still do sometimes. At this point, I can just record my stuff at home with my jazz bass into my Sansamp and send off the track and get an online payment. Sometimes the producers take my exact line and use it, and sometimes they chop up the bass part into the MPC and play it on the pads. I still hear songs that have a chop of me doing a bass slide on it or a 1 note drop..it's cool.

I am really loving Wizzle's posts, good informative stuff.

[coolout]

"But you can't tell me that's some new groundbreaking approach to the music or style"

I guess everyone has an opinion. I personally disagree with you.

I think that Donuts' use of vocals/sound effects, intricate-micro chopping, purposely understated drums, creative use of tempo, total disregard for copyright, and the way the tracks flowed into each other was very daring and innovative. It's like an updated Entroducing... or something.

If your lucky enough to have a copy the 2005 beats, where Dilla was all about finding new ways to flip well known tunes (James Brown, Jackson 5, etc), you see that Donuts is a progression of those techniques.

You'll find this style's influence on a lot of projects in the future.

[Kool J Gheezy]

well I see it was a bad idea touching the Donut topic here. certainly one, if not THE one, Jay Dee release that's sparked the most controversy as to whether it was good / bad.

I'm not going into that further I've already crossed this thread's proper boundaries.

@whiz : I feel what you're saying man, no worries. you were close, ACK, that changes a lot. to me Jay Dee was not a buddy, just a far far far away musical icon somewhere over there in Nova Terra... and so he was to most of his "audience", let's not forget that. but if you read my post carefully you'll find that I brought up pretty much the same argumentation you did to some extent. With all that hardship how are you gonna stay on top of your game 24/7? He was a only a man afterall, right? Inhaling oxygen, exhaling carbondioxide...
I'm not putting forth any ad hominem criticism so please stay calm it's cool dude...

@ coolout

u r right, it's all different opinions... but still, lemme brake it down for ya : I've been with this hiphop thing for a while. I'm not no rookie in this ish. I know my jones. as a head.

I've listened to the Donut album up and down when it came out. Nice stuff. Really. I checked out the bootleg beat cd you mentioned as well, which is also nice. But I think you're missing the point :

"I think that Donuts' use of vocals/sound effects,

which ones??? it's all samples there's no effects. what are you talking about? the lightsworks stuff? him and madlib must have shared that LP because around the same time Madlib used some of it on his Beat Konducta releases which I've likewise taken with a grain of salt. of course people were hyping that too.

intricate-micro chopping,

you've done it before you'll know there's nothing intricate about that. if your ear is trained like his was, because he's been doing it for forever now. on the other hand : good point. reminds me of the "little brother" beat he did for mos def and talib kweli back in 2000. up to this day I haven't completely figured out how he put together the different parts of that Ayers song. now THAT was smooth.

purposely understated drums,

that's because if the sample doesn't come with banging snares you won't get banging snares...

creative use of tempo,

now that's a novelty!

total disregard for copyright,

how is that creative? the Stones Throw cats do it all the time so I reckon he just picked up the habit when he moved...see below

and the way the tracks flowed into each other was very daring and innovative. It's like an updated Entroducing... or something."

that Endtroducing comparison you found on the internet because I read a couple of articles that mentioned something like that. if not erm well forget about it. u see I'm not seriously trying to disprove you here, just bicker a little



Actually, it's not worth it wasting one more word on this. Boards all over the net are bubbling with steaming hot controversy over Jay Dee now that he's been declared God, at least to some he is.

Let's keep this pro and forget about it, stick with the technical aspect of this thread. I apologize to everyone having their feelings and emotions stirred up and to the moderator for straying thru the woods instead of staying on the safe path to grandma's house... I'm actually not a hater or anything and I don't wanna instigate either. I just like to keep my vision clear, I've done so from day one and I take things for what they're really worth. Don't believe the hype...

I'm still wondering how he played these funky ass basslines for the Vintage EP using mpc pads. it just seems so unnatural because the patterns vary a lot and everbody says he was that 5minute burner kinda cat.

There's an Erykah Badu comment on the making of "Didn't Cha Know" on the net where she says that blablabla 5 minutes track was almost done. Well, no surprise, anyone can take a masterfully crafted Tarika Blue song recorded on vintage equipment and loop it up. They caught a case over that as a consequence. so far for copyright infringement as mentioned above. BTW, one of my favorite tunes, I'm mentioning it here because in the interview she said they just looped a base line. You can imagine I was pretty disappointed when I found out the whole tracks is basically a loop.

Lates,

J

[affinitysound]

i think donuts just went ovr your head, no offense. Alot of people dont get donuts. Sure it was basically loops and stuff , but it was aproached in a whole new way. Listen to don't cry. Sure people have chopped before ....but not like that ever. That was so intricately chopped primo and hi tek would be druling over it. Not to mention the genius use of live timestretching in the middle of the tracks. Sure its a simple thing to do ......but no one woulda thought to do it. Thats what was genius about Dilla. He could take somethin thats already been touched on, and take it to a new level. Take kanye, just blaze, and 9th wonder for instance. The majority of their samples have already been used, and all they do it take the same shit loop it up and throw drums on it. Very basic and not to unique. But look at dilla, he goes in the opposite direction of everyone. Everyone else uses played out samples ......dilla finds rarities that have barely been heard. They throw a bunch of regular soundin drum breaks over it.....dilla barely even uses drums on donuts. Everyone else mildy chops their samples......dilla chops em to a million pieces and reconstructs them with complete skill( take "don't cry for instance). All im sayin is sure......u might just hear it for bein a bunch of soul loops chopped up a bit and thrown on a cd.....but if u could listen to it for what it really is, its throwin a unique touch on somethin that everyones doin. Its as if Dilla saw what everyone was doin in the rap game, and was like "ok let me show you how its really done"

[affinitysound]

but i never jump on somethin just cuz everyones talkin bout it. Im in the boston area and before i was tryin to put everyone on to dilla but no one ever caught on. I understand y though. Most people need magazine and celebrities to tell them whats cool and what you should like. They dont have the individuality to discover somethin on their own. Its too bad....cuz BOOM ...dilla dies and all of a sudden everyones on his nuts.....its kinda annoying....im like "where were yall when he was alive droppin classic shit????" I thought donuts was a very unique perspective on a style of hip hop that has been very huge in the past few years. not too many people can put a new spin on somethin touched on so greatly. But before i go i just gota say....."Won't Do" off of the shining is ****in crazy!!!! Nobody can say shit about that joint. Aint nobody makin beats that sick!!!! RIP DILLA!!!!

[Fredrik]

Hey Wizzle I like your beats,


I thought what was said about the presonus stuff was funny most people would get flamed for saying that they used this over 1176 or la-2a´s, lol.

[Kool J Gheezy]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Hey Wizzle I like your beats,


I thought what was said about the presonus stuff was funny most people would get flamed for saying that they used this over 1176 or la-2a´s, lol.

Please rephrase in standard English. Damn equipment geek jargon...

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by Kool J Gheezy

Please rephrase in standard English. Damn equipment geek jargon...

Dude I just quote what was mentioned earlier in this thread. What is it you dont get?

[AON]

Originally Posted by Kool J Gheezy

Please rephrase in standard English. Damn equipment geek jargon...

The name of the forum is gearslutz so what did you expect?

[khameln]

Originally Posted by wizzle

Kool.......you're speaking very out of turn here. You have NO idea what was REALLY going on the last years of his life, what the hospital bills were like, how much pain he was in, or to say that Donuts isn't great. That's your opinion on that album though. You would have had to be in Detroit, in California, picking up checks from people, seeing Dilla lose and gain weight everytime you saw him, taking whim where he needed to go, making sure Mrs. Yancey was cool, picking up checks from all over the city........it was hard. I'm very sensitive about this subject and HATE when people speak negative about Dilla at all. Even though he cursed me out on a few occasions. LOL!!!!! Please don't speak of what you don't know first hand.

I don't think he was disagreeing with this and I don't think he was trying to bash Dilla... I think he was just saying that criticism of Dilla's music has now become unbalaced toward the immortal "can do no wrong" side.

[linndrum9000]

Somebody mentioned the tempo changes in donuts. That was my favorite part, how it would just slow down and speed up and catch you off guard. Of course he was very sick and it wasn't his signature sound, but the way he made a cohesive creative album with limited equipment is so impressive.

On topic
When I first started trying to replicate that dilla bass, first thing I did was sample a bass note from my microkorg into my mpc. Filtered it to bring up the low end and used the 16 levels to play it chromatically. This has given me the most accurate dilla-ish bass.

P.s thanks for sharing this wizzle, a lot of peeps would keep this knowledge to themselves.
PP.s you said dilla gave you some drums! Damn you are the luckyest beat maker ever. One thing I allways wondered was who got his drum discs when he passed. Where are those priceless drum discs right now???

[FunkFromTheSun]

Thanks to whizzle for sharing his knowledge!

On late Dilla: the Donuts type of music, is great, showing more musically diverse ways to make beats while still keeping it hiphop. I see it as a great source of inspiration, and not as a formula for "bangers" to be copied, like some seem to view Just Blaze/Heatmakerz et c.

[Kool J Gheezy]

"Somebody mentioned the tempo changes in donuts. That was my favorite part, how it would just slow down and speed up and catch you off guard. Of course he was very sick and it wasn't his signature sound, but the way he made a cohesive creative album with limited equipment is so impressive."

the first hiphop beat I can remember that had time changes was either that Blackalicious track I forgot the name of or perhaps more likely so the "Tick, Tick" track on MF Doom's debut solo album back in 2000. if I remember correctly the Blackalicious joint just started out slow and sped up gradually. I think J-Live did a similar track, too.
The thing that was special about the MF Doom song was that the tempo kept speeding up and slowing down because the Beatles sample they used wasn't straight and they just kept it as it was...really fresh tho, got me all excited to try it myself back then. usually you're tempted to straighten things out, especially with all the good chopping software out these days, time shift plugins and the like.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by affinitysound

i think donuts just went ovr your head, no offense. Alot of people dont get donuts.

I'm probably in the minority...but his older stuff doesn't do it for me as much... stuff like Jaylib, Ruff Draft, Jay Love Japan, Donuts... that's the J Dilla I love... it's more experimental and fun.

[gearaddict]

Pick up a bass, get some motown songs, and learn!!!!

You will be proud of yourself for learning how to play, I watched a bio on the Funk Brothers last night and it sure made me want to come down and start playing!!!

Plus you will be ahead of most hip-hop folks because you can play instead of sample!!!

[jedilaw]

I'm about to sound all grandpa-ish up in here, but if you first started listening to Hip Hop in 1994, how are you in a position to know anything about what is and isn't high quality in the genre? You're coming in after Nation of Millions, after Low End Theory, after Three Feet High and Rising, after Raising Hell, Paul's Boutique, Paid in Full, By Any Means Necessary...did you go back and listen to the original ish, the foundational records, or do you think that Nas is some kind of founding voice of Hip Hop?

Reason I'm asking is if you want to evaluate something like Donuts, you kind of need to have listened to where Hip Hop was, and where it went as it progressed. Things that sound random to young ears may really be references to songs from a long time back.

[Jake Gilla]

This thread is year old.....

[jedilaw]

Oooooops...saw the date/time on the recent posts, thought it was a live discussion.

I really am playing the senile old fool today...

[smoke]

If he had searched for the Eric Persing Trilogy demop video he would have had a damn good example of someone banging bass on a keyboard.

[Jermaine]

what a thread....

do you want jay dee tabs, or what?!?

come on, ... learn your instrument, if its a keyboard, a guitar or the mpc. that the only way!

OR get the "j dilla- bassline midiboard" from m-audio or download the native instrument synth "JD 2007 - legendary j dilla sound".

and dont forget to put on the track the waves VSTi "j dilla - drunken beats quantization" it makes a sound, that people think you have played everything with the natural dilla groove
... maybe its not from waves.. i'm not sure..?!

[jedilaw]

Originally Posted by AON