Anyone here happy they've switched from hardware to software productions

Originally Posted by HoPMiX

i have never used peak. i drop audio files into protools jusy by gragging from the akasys browser into the audio pool in protools. then i exprt back out..
I dont have any beef with software drums but i layer drum sounds and in teh mp you re really doing it in real time. rather than browsing and drag in drop, i just scroll...

I do it this way with protools when Im layering as well. Peak is cool because it works with aksys in tandem.

I kinda use both. Your workflow sounds like mine. I used to do my layers inside the MP with older MPs but now with aksys, I'll layer in protools, Bounce the drum hit (usually a few different versions of a kick processed different) to disk, and put it in the MP.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by blayz2002

Punch - are you basically talking about good layering, good eq, good compression and maybe gates?.

Nope. I'm talking about the inherent "knock" that comes off the MP. There are lots of ways to shape sounds in Reason, and you gotta use them to get it to bang.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Have you ever had real time working on a MPC4k?

I've never made any beats with them personally...but I have tracked/mixed lots of stuff that came from them. When the 4k first came out, I was one of it's biggest cheerleaders. It definitely sounds awesome. I learned MP's on the old joints and was too lazy to learn the 4k's. I know that a lot of cats feel the same way. Snoop bought one and nobody used it - even with me in the background saying "Man, that thing is bangin'! 24 bits!!!"

For me, my ideas come together in a spur-of-the-moment fashion and jumping back and forth from unit to unit is disruptive to my flow. Software rules the roost at my spot.

[boodah]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Nope. I'm talking about the inherent "knock" that comes off the MP. There are lots of ways to shape sounds in Reason, and you gotta use them to get it to bang.

Co-Sign

[Killah_Trakz]

Originally Posted by FULL-DUPLEX

I think it makes more fun to work with hardware. To work with a MPC (the 60 I own) is like a pool for my ideas and helps me to realise it in another way than with plugins or computer based samplers / synths etc.

The MPC GUI resp. the display shows some letters that´s it and for me I can concentrate me better and can reach the "zone", being insulated...

It is like writing raps or poems on real paper, which I don´t do at my PC (MS Word).

This seems to be very very true, hardware does bring another side of the beatmaker/producer out but its the man behind the deck.

Far as fatness, the mpc which has punch unless your using a 60. They way i get the crisp from mines are first sample crisp drums at the start!
Then comp to taste, and play with the ashdr or whatever that craps called.

Adrian whats good with today 05/16/07! Im good after 5:30 p.

[korce]

Definitely seems like hardware vs. software is a hot topic these days (especially after the whole Just Blaze RB interviews...)

I started out working with software (first acid, then fl studio, then reason and nuendo and fl together via vst/rewire) and have slowly moved into the hardware world now...

Bought an MPC 2kxl and Yamaha s90 last fall and have been enjoying the "hands-on" experience - but in the end I'm not sure if my beats are really any better, or if the workflow is faster...I've actually thought about trying making stuff purely in Reason (w/ other synths via digital performer) again to see if thats more my "style".

I do notice a difference in sound though - especially the low end (i guess from the filters) on the mpc 2kxl. I know the filters on this unit are probably nothing special, but they have definitely added some punch and definition to my low end.

Of course, this difference in sound could be due to a HUGE upgrade in soundcard/audio interface from a M-audio MobilePre (i know!) to a Metric Halo MIO 2882. I'm certainly curious to see whether the superior clock on the MIO has a big influence on the improved sound quality.

What I've been doin lately is using the MPC for drums and sequencing, and using NN-XT in reason (w/ recycle to chop) as my main sampler - it has way more control and filter options than the sampler on a 2kxl. I'll use a combo of soft synths (from reason, etc.) and rompler sounds from the s90 to fill in where necessary.

I def. like the hands-on and simplicity of step edit, etc. in MPC sequencer, but theres is something to be said for the simplicity of that piano roll in reason and other DAW sequencers...

Anyone else do the same thing with using MPC as main sequencer/for drums and soft synths, other samples, etc from the comp? Curious to hear how others kick it...

[vaesion]

i did software for years and struggled to make my mixes sound big. I spent for ever eqing them to sound like hardware sounds naturally with good choice of inst.

I think using vst inst u better have some damn good analog eq and compression to make stand up to hardware

click this link to hear the difference between batterys 808 and fantoms 808

www.deep-production.com/sonny

Its obvious whats battery and whats fantom...... battery has no tone knock or depth. Its overly bright. Battery is great for effects and filler sounds..but Ill never use battery again for kik n snare.........the nuts of a hip hop track.......
I also have a acoustically treated room now so the differences are very clear.....

If u think battery sounds better then play the 2 clips next to ur fav 808 groups cd and see which one is closer to the goal mix wise.........

I also hate the computer for acoustical keyboard sounds.........for me the computer doesnt have real emotion and feelings........seems u have to pile on the tracks to get ur motor going in the computer.....That sucks because the best tracks have little going on. The computer is awesome for samples.. Nothings easier than using halion or the likes.

using both is best.............Being stuck on a mpc would be a nightmare after experiencing the computers ability.

When it comes to sequencing and editing..........im computer all day..........when it comes to drums and acoustical stuff im analog all day..............

I remember when vst came out...........it SOUL PUROSE was for those who wanted to make music but couldnt afford the real deal. Vst use to sound like shit..........it was supppppppppppper small in the beginning.......I personally believe and this is my humble opinion from my experience.....I think peoples greed for money have really made things confusing..........These vst guys are saying there plugs are like almost identical to hardware..........and only the rich people who have hardware can tell you..........and all on this site will, is that it doent sound like the hardware..........IT CANT......its an emulation.............****ing a a plastic doll will NEVER be like ****ing a real women............and yeah u can damn sure get a nut.......ESPECIALLY if your drunk/high but it will never be like the real thing......

I read a post the other day from a person that hates whats happen with music since cds..........he said computers and cds have taken the vibration away from music............All sound is cause by vibrations. records use to playback vibrations and the needle vibrated and produced music.....tape recorded magnetic vibrations.............computers delete the vibration and convert sound to a emulation of 0's and 1s..........that article had a big effect on me. If they came out with a program that read ur mind musically and made music with it that sounded like a 128 kbit mp3 that would be the new standard........because people choose laziness over sound quality.
Pretty soon people are gona be stuck in thier chairs at home with thier computer thats there whole life........they order food thru it shop thru it.....love thru it **** thru it create with, work with it.............and one day while they are listening to there super harsh music from there software that reads there mind and they can hardly lift thier arms because they are so weak from never moving to go anywhere, they are gona seeeeeeeeeeeee the lighttttttttttttttttttt!!


I see people struggling endlessly on this site trying to make mixes that sound like dave pensados work with there PC..............ive heard alot of mixes on this site and theres some pleaseing ones.........but none with a pc have sounded like a huge record. The vst dealers...........are hyping the shit out of these plugs and the people believe it all and never seem to reach there mix goals. For the engineers with hardware studios...........thier jobs couldnt be more preserved because every ones chasing this thing over here and being distracted and all have given up on hardware because the hype has become the truth....

at the end of the day..........your mix is going to a analog enginner if your records gona be on the same cd as Jay Z or Dre's.............I dont care.........how great l2 and timeworks compressor is with alittle colortone.


just my experience and thoughts.........Ive been producing 17 years.

Originally Posted by The Marrvel

This is an ironic topic, because I'm actually considering switching back to hardware.

I currently use Battery 2 and Trilogy as my primary software production tools within Cubase. In addition to these, I sometimes use Hypersonic, Atmosphere, Vanguard, and all types of free soft synths.

The workflow is great for me, but I find myself trying to use too many tools because they're so accessible. I believe that a more minimalistic hardware setup will give me not only a signature sound but also bring back the fun of being able to just flip a couple switches and play.

I still have yet to make the switch, but I really want to grab an MPC to sample/sequence on with a solid sound module.

[MattmaN]

How is hardware like the mpc/fantom/motif/triton more analog than a computer?

From a technical standpoint they are all completely digital.

Originally Posted by vaesion

i did software for years and struggled to make my mixes sound big. I spent for ever eqing them to sound like hardware sounds naturally with good choice of inst.

I think using vst inst u better have some damn good analog eq and compression to make stand up to hardware

click this link to hear the difference between batterys 808 and fantoms 808

www.deep-production.com/sonny

Its obvious whats battery and whats fantom...... battery has no tone knock or depth. Its overly bright. Battery is great for effects and filler sounds..but Ill never use battery again for kik n snare.........the nuts of a hip hop track.......
I also have a acoustically treated room now so the differences are very clear.....

If u think battery sounds better then play the 2 clips next to ur fav 808 groups cd and see which one is closer to the goal mix wise.........

I also hate the computer for acoustical keyboard sounds.........for me the computer doesnt have real emotion and feelings........seems u have to pile on the tracks to get ur motor going in the computer.....That sucks because the best tracks have little going on. The computer is awesome for samples.. Nothings easier than using halion or the likes.

using both is best.............Being stuck on a mpc would be a nightmare after experiencing the computers ability.

When it comes to sequencing and editing..........im computer all day..........when it comes to drums and acoustical stuff im analog all day..............

I remember when vst came out...........it SOUL PUROSE was for those who wanted to make music but couldnt afford the real deal. Vst use to sound like shit..........it was supppppppppppper small in the beginning.......I personally believe and this is my humble opinion from my experience.....I think peoples greed for money have really made things confusing..........These vst guys are saying there plugs are like almost identical to hardware..........and only the rich people who have hardware can tell you..........and all on this site will, is that it doent sound like the hardware..........IT CANT......its an emulation.............****ing a a plastic doll will NEVER be like ****ing a real women............and yeah u can damn sure get a nut.......ESPECIALLY if your drunk/high but it will never be like the real thing......

I read a post the other day from a person that hates whats happen with music since cds..........he said computers and cds have taken the vibration away from music............All sound is cause by vibrations. records use to playback vibrations and the needle vibrated and produced music.....tape recorded magnetic vibrations.............computers delete the vibration and convert sound to a emulation of 0's and 1s..........that article had a big effect on me. If they came out with a program that read ur mind musically and made music with it that sounded like a 128 kbit mp3 that would be the new standard........because people choose laziness over sound quality.
Pretty soon people are gona be stuck in thier chairs at home with thier computer thats there whole life........they order food thru it shop thru it.....love thru it **** thru it create with, work with it.............and one day while they are listening to there super harsh music from there software that reads there mind and they can hardly lift thier arms because they are so weak from never moving to go anywhere, they are gona seeeeeeeeeeeee the lighttttttttttttttttttt!!


I see people struggling endlessly on this site trying to make mixes that sound like dave pensados work with there PC..............ive heard alot of mixes on this site and theres some pleaseing ones.........but none with a pc have sounded like a huge record. The vst dealers...........are hyping the shit out of these plugs and the people believe it all and never seem to reach there mix goals. For the engineers with hardware studios...........thier jobs couldnt be more preserved because every ones chasing this thing over here and being distracted and all have given up on hardware because the hype has become the truth....

at the end of the day..........your mix is going to a analog enginner if your records gona be on the same cd as Jay Z or Dre's.............I dont care.........how great l2 and timeworks compressor is with alittle colortone.


just my experience and thoughts.........Ive been producing 17 years.

In my tests, the fantom was the brightest sampler I own while all the rest both software and hardware sounded more alike

[MattmaN]

Originally Posted by sethdk

huh?

quality of converters has nothing to do with the sound. My mpc3000 sounds alot better than my mpc4000. Character of those analog coverters is what it is. Thats why some folks still rock s950 and sp12's.

You have to go thru the analog circuitry to sample and u have to go thru the analog circuitry to hear it for playback. If you dont think the analog circuitry & converters doesnt affect the sound of an mpc and any hardware instruments then...

check this thread. they explain some things pretty well here in relation

Why is My Hardware Sampler Sounding Better Than My Software Sampler!? Same Samples!..

There's no analog circuitry in a mpc, or other "digital samplers".
They are no more analog then your onboard soundcard.
a/d d/a, not a/a a/a.

An analog signal is no longer analog once it hits the convertors.
It stays 100% digital until it leaves the outputs.

[Switchcraft]

I just pulled myy sp1200 out of the closet and made track. I forgot how drums just sit out front when you use that thing. You dont need to layer samples like you do in the box. one kik and one snare and it is ****ing huge.

[Wiggum, Ralph]

Originally Posted by vaesion

i did software for years and struggled to make my mixes sound big. I spent for ever eqing them to sound like hardware sounds naturally with good choice of inst.

I think using vst inst u better have some damn good analog eq and compression to make stand up to hardware

click this link to hear the difference between batterys 808 and fantoms 808

www.deep-production.com/sonny

Its obvious whats battery and whats fantom...... battery has no tone knock or depth. Its overly bright. Battery is great for effects and filler sounds..but Ill never use battery again for kik n snare.........the nuts of a hip hop track.......
I also have a acoustically treated room now so the differences are very clear.....

If u think battery sounds better then play the 2 clips next to ur fav 808 groups cd and see which one is closer to the goal mix wise.........

Hey vaesion thanks for the test.

The results are so different, I'm wondering how accurate was your test. Cause the snares sound like they have different volume envelopes. Were these the same 808 kit samples and you feed them into both samplers? Can you explain further how you came up with this test?

If anyone is have trouble with this link click here Index of /sonny

[sethdk]

Originally Posted by MattmaN

There's no analog circuitry in a mpc, or other "digital samplers".
An analog signal is no longer analog once it hits the convertors.
It stays 100% digital until it leaves the outputs.

The mpc's analog converters going in and comin out are very important to it's sound is what I am saying. The character of those converters are the sound. This is not a big brain technical discussion but...
since u quoted me and wnat to be technical u need to read what working professionals say on the subject below

Why is My Hardware Sampler Sounding Better Than My Software Sampler!? Same Samples!..

[MattmaN]

I don't doubt there are sound differances among convertors. I'm just saying mpc's/computers are both digital devices.
There's nothing special going on with hardware samplers, and thier intergration to thier interface that makes them sound better.
If akai made an audio interface for your computer with the same exact convertors as the mpc4000 it would indeed make your computer sound just like a 4000.

[vaesion]

IM a space cadet. I thought there were only 2 files in there. one is the battery two is fantom and two 01 is fantom with high end boosted

that battery kit is there newest 808 kit............there snare isnt the best thing to listen to in that test. I tried to tune things similar........listen to the rim and and highs.........the rim and snare have knock and good mids/lowmids to them. If your super intrested ill post a snare thats the same sample as the battery 1. this test made me go buy the supreme dance card for my keyboard so now I have alot of 808 sounds that match it perfectly. I couldnt be happier with this card. There are tooooooooons of snares and kiks. The sound is much more fulfilling when making music.......FOR ME! God knows thats not the truth for others

Originally Posted by Wiggum, Ralph

Hey vaesion thanks for the test.

the link is Index of /sonny




The results are so different, I'm wondering how accurate was your test. Cause the snares sound like they have different volume envelopes. Were these the same 808 kit samples and you feed them into both samplers? Can you explain further how you came up with this test?

If anyone is have trouble with this link click here Index of /sonny

Back when I tested all of my samplers with the same samples, my Fantom was brighter and more off sounding than any other. I offered to post the sounds, but guys didn't seem to want to hear them.

LOL They all just defended the fantom Some ere saying their mixes didn't sound overly bright

[vaesion]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Back when I tested all of my samplers with the same samples, my Fantom was brighter and more off sounding than any other. I offered to post the sounds, but guys didn't seem to want to hear them.

LOL They all just defended the fantom Some ere saying their mixes didn't sound overly bright

id love to hear them

[Wiggum, Ralph]

Originally Posted by vaesion

IM a space cadet. I thought there were only 2 files in there. one is the battery two is fantom and two 01 is fantom with high end boosted

that battery kit is there newest 808 kit............there snare isnt the best thing to listen to in that test. I tried to tune things similar........listen to the rim and and highs.........the rim and snare have knock and good mids/lowmids to them. If your super intrested ill post a snare thats the same sample as the battery 1. this test made me go buy the supreme dance card for my keyboard so now I have alot of 808 sounds that match it perfectly. I couldnt be happier with this card. There are tooooooooons of snares and kiks. The sound is much more fulfilling when making music.......FOR ME! God knows thats not the truth for others

vaesion, i dont want to pesture u, but i think it will be a great idea if u would do a more accurate test. Same identical sounds loaded in Battery & the Fantom, playing the same sequence.

I wish we all collectively created a sticky where there was a givin number of samples & sequences ran through different gear (hardware & software). I think it would help alot of people out.

BTW, imo the biggest difference between hardware & software is the workflow.

[MattmaN]

You you don't hear alot of people arguing about differances in audio interfaces like you did the old samplers.
(I.E) "My echo mia is better than your m-audio 24/96" , lol.
On the other hand there used to always be some sort of Akai vs. Emu debate going on when rack samplers still ruled the market.

Do E-MU audio interface's sound warm like thier old samplers had a rep for?

Just by the lack of arguments on this subject I wonder if they all are pretty much transparent sounding.

[sethdk]

You you don't hear alot of people arguing about differances in audio interfaces like you did the old samplers.

look in the other forums here witht he working professionals. the sound of hi end converters/soundcards- apogee, lynx, digi 192, etc. is argued all day everyday. When u get to high end it's pretty much preference. The low end stuff like motu, emu, echo, etc....

When we built our new spot last year we were stuck about using 192's as opposed to apogees for the HD room for about 2 weeks. 192's won. But others swear by the apogees

[vaesion]

Originally Posted by Wiggum, Ralph

vaesion, i dont want to pesture u, but i think it will be a great idea if u would do a more accurate test. Same identical sounds loaded in Battery & the Fantom, playing the same sequence.

I wish we all collectively created a sticky where there was a givin number of samples & sequences ran through different gear (hardware & software). I think it would help alot of people out.

BTW, imo the biggest difference between hardware & software is the workflow.

every things the same but the snare.....ill post some other stuff later.

I won't be near the ptools rig for a few days.

Could someone with a fantom xr, some soft samplers and maybe an MPC 4k import a 2trk mix of somethign into all of them and post some wavs?