Holla @ PROs - Drum Multing Help?

[DAH]

Yo, i `ve seen a lot posts here about drum (and especially KICK) multing..
As it seems to be a quite intricate technique, I decided to post here a lil raw beat and let those experienced (gear-rich pros ) mult the kick (and perhaps, the snare as well) and post your versions (with separate mult tracks) with a general explanation, i.e. no gear model quoting is necessary, but instead the concept and purpose explanation is needed (e.g. "the original lacks weight, so I made 1 mult wit some 60 Hz +4 db added and short attack..." etc.
I made 4 short files:
1 Kick
2 Hat
3 Snare
4 Mix
I guess, it`be a good basic tutorial thread for newbies...

[DAH]

c`mon, u guys post a zillion comments on sm7b and avallon 737... But when it gets down to the concept instead of the implementation, everybody just keeps his mouth shut...
Oh, i forgot it`s the GEARSLUTZ

[Methlab]

Believe it or not, a lot of people on here actually work on music and don't have time to tweak this type of stuff. But if you need mult tips or ideas, im sure we can give you some.

[DAH]

Meth, don`t you think it`d be of more sense to make a usable and usefule tutorial thread rather than watch topics like "BIIIGGG KicK!!!! "Huge Banga" and all the other ish everyday? Filled with posts varyin from "it depends on the track" over "pick up better samples" to "Develop your own style!" ???
I`m sure it takes about 15 minutes to tweak and print the mult tracks and another 2 minutes to post it.
Say 5 people x 17 minutes = 1,5 man-hour = food for thought and listen for days - repeating threads.

[Gear Tramp]

I'm here! What do you need?

Do it yourself and experiment with different EQ's, compressors, etc. Have fun with it, get crazy, get nasty, & peel the paint off the walls. Having other people perform this and post what they did offers nothing in the context of a mix, or your productions. You understand the concept, and that is all anyone needs to implement their own ideas.

Do you think that because you posted this thread that the answers that have always been given are suddenly going to change? Maybe you should consider that answers like "pick up better samples" and "develop your own style" are correct, and you're resisting them, because you think there is an easier way.

This isn't mix a record by numbers. This is gearslutz.

What product do you want to know about?

[Lowas]

Nice kick, is it the SP1200?
On second listen I would guess something like the Akai 950/900, MPC60 or similar, I don't have any of those units tho.

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by DAH

Meth, don`t you think it`d be of more sense to make a usable and usefule tutorial thread rather than watch topics like "BIIIGGG KicK!!!! "Huge Banga" and all the other ish everyday? Filled with posts varyin from "it depends on the track" over "pick up better samples" to "Develop your own style!" ???
I`m sure it takes about 15 minutes to tweak and print the mult tracks and another 2 minutes to post it.
Say 5 people x 17 minutes = 1,5 man-hour = food for thought and listen for days - repeating threads.

i tried putting up a tutorial and it got deleted cause people didnt agree with it (makes no sense huh?) so i dont bother anymore

[Lowas]

i tried putting up a tutorial and it got deleted cause people didnt agree with it

If people have the time audioexamples is the best and fun too.

[binarybob]

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[DAH]

So here`s my beat where I used kick 3 mults.
I just split original kick into 3 mults - compressed and EQed 2 of them, the weight mult I only EQed. No dry original kick to master-buss.

[DAH]

The weight kick

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by DAH

..."it depends on the track" over "pick up better samples"...

maybe not what you want to hear but it is where it's at really...

imo a decent eq'd and tuned kick, i'm talking about just ONE layer, can get you a lot further than 10 layers of whatever.

[lpuma]

Originally Posted by Sirocco

i tried putting up a tutorial and it got deleted cause people didnt agree with it (makes no sense huh?) so i dont bother anymore

wtf? Sirocco forget about dudes. I WANT a drums design tutorial from you! Dah I'll chek your work later I'm not at my crib (lab).

[DAH]

When I`m listening to the beat I can tell that it (and the kick as well) it`s not that hot at all, though when you compare the original kick with the result, I gues, that it is not too bad - getting a massive sound from a knocky light sample.
BTW the kick in my beat was cut by myself off some jazz-fusion record, not taken from a sample library.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by DAH

When I`m listening to the beat I can tell that it (and the kick as well) it`s not that hot at all, though when you compare the original kick with the result, I gues, that it is not too bad - getting a massive sound from a knocky light sample...

maybe you're trying to mould it into something it will never be because of it's characteristics.
why try and get a massive sound from a light kick when you can start with something massive from the get-go and just tweak?

[DAH]

Originally Posted by beat you down

maybe you're trying to mould it into something it will never be because of it's characteristics.
why try and get a massive sound from a light kick when you can start with something massive from the get-go and just tweak?

First, mults are mostly mentioned by mixers (remeber Ken Lewis`s, Dave Pensado`s posts) as an improving means for (weak) drums during the mix.
So, I find a sense in tryin` and learnin` this technique by taking an average clean light sample and tweaking it as it was during mix stage (and if the drums cannot be replaced).

[beat you down]

sure,
all i'm saying is, if it's not there, it's not there.

[idlabs]

Originally Posted by DAH

First, mults are mostly mentioned by mixers (remeber Ken Lewis`s, Dave Pensado`s posts) as an improving means for (weak) drums during the mix.
So, I find a sense in tryin` and learnin` this technique by taking an average clean light sample and tweaking it as it was during mix stage (and if the drums cannot be replaced).

Alot of guys, myself included, will just replace a kick or snare with a better sample if the one being mixed isn't cutting the mustard. That said, I think multing a sample 1, 2, or more times is a great way add a differnt color to an instrument/drum without changing the essence of the original sound. As far as that goes, I think how you process the mutled tracks is really up for grabs. Everyone does it a little different. Heavily compress and eq is probably the normal procedure.

[Barznbeats1]

Originally Posted by binarybob

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That was a racist comment.


lol

[lpuma]

I'm far from being a good sound designer, I'm mo of a beatmaker but I'm down for a try (I'm curently cleaning voices tracks, I hate it, and mixing demos for the mix engineer so that lil game is a fresh breath for me).

I just took the time to process the bass drum.

So I "multed" the drum 3 time:

1st: bpf at +/-250hz
2nd: pitch -12, lpf +/-120hz
3rd: pitch +12, lpf +/- 2.4 khz

a tinny amount of verb (shot one wit lp/hp)
heavy parallel comp wit slow attack.

(heavy) color processing on the mix bus + limiter (untouched).

tell what you think.

[James Meeker]

On the SSL for beefing up drums I will send the drums to the matrix--two separate stereo groups--one at 0db the other around -12db but with limiting or compression.

Basically parallel compression. No big secret there. Sounds great.

You can set the same thing up in a DAW--route drums to separate aux busses, leave one alone and smash the other one. Charles Dye does it in "Mix It Like a Record" as well--shows how to set it up a bit more indepth.

[Barznbeats1]

Originally Posted by lpuma

I'm far from being a good sound designer, I'm mo of a beatmaker but I'm down for a try (I'm curently cleaning voices tracks, I hate it, and mixing demos for the mix engineer so that lil game is a fresh breath for me).

I just took the time to process the bass drum.

So I "multed" the drum 3 time:

1st: bpf at +/-250hz
2nd: pitch -12, lpf +/-120hz
3rd: pitch +12, lpf +/- 2.4 khz

a tinny amount of verb (shot one wit lp/hp)
heavy parallel comp wit slow attack.

(heavy) color processing on the mix bus + limiter (untouched).

tell what you think.

Nice...! I stole it too!

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by idlabs

Alot of guys, myself included, will just replace a kick or snare with a better sample if the one being mixed isn't cutting the mustard.

Hush! Don't let word get out!

My beatmaker clients will start asking too many questions...

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by idlabs

Alot of guys, myself included, will just replace a kick or snare with a better sample if the one being mixed isn't cutting the mustard...

like how often is this necessary with so called big hip hop producers, i always wondered...

i mean some leaked demo stuff or beat cd's sound so much weaker than the finished product, especially drums.

also onhere being picky when selecting drums and tuning them seems a big thing (it is to me ) but when i see a tutorial on youtube or some lab footage they seem to just throw stuff together, no tuning etc going on. i recall the kanye west 'stronger' lab shoot with timbaland, i think they had 12 mixes done before they decided to finally replace the kick.

[buddha fingers]

layering drums isnt as complex as it sounds. if your kick has a good punch but not enough low end, layer it with a deeper kick. if the kick is makin the subs go crazy but there isnt enough punch then layer it with a punchy kick that has less low end. then eq the two depending on what you need out of them. maybe cut some lows on the punchy kick and then cut some highs on the bassy kick. its all about experiemnting.

[tonymission]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Hush! Don't let word get out!

My beatmaker clients will start asking too many questions...