mix technique - booming 808 kick - any tips?

[carbohydrate]

hey all,

so, i have this track and i need the 808 to really boom.. the long decay, super subby.. i'm sure we all have that sound etched in our imaginations. i just sampled an 808 especially for this, but i can't seem to make the thing come through the mix. plus, in order to have it loud, the attack is absolutely killing my ears.

so a straight up 808 sound isn't doing it, there must be some way to get it sitting high in the mix.. eq and or compression, layering it with another kick sample - i have tried these and nothign seems to work.

so i call upon my more experienced hip-hop mixing mentors to reveal how they get that 808 to boom and sit high the mix, in a way that will translate that feeling of "sub" onto any speakers big or small.. so many references, btu a few classics would be dre "nigga witta gun", outkast "skew it on that bar-b".. you know what i mean!!

yours humbly,

james

[beat you down]

just some ideas:

maybe you need to tune it, or replace the 808 sample you'v got with a better one.

take out some lows so you can pull it up, or use something like r-bass to get like an more audible layer on top.

smash it with the l1 plug to get some distortion.

build the track around the 808 would be the best thing imo, so it might not even be a mixing problem, maybe you just used the wrong or too many ingredients so the 808 has no room to shine.

post a snippet....

[6dyslexicelephnt]

DBX makes this thing called the subharmonic synthesizer that synthesizes a note an octave lower and it has a sub output so you could tailor the sub sound/feel. In the box you could try some octaving thing. Honestly I always wondered how rap songs get that nice farty sub sound where the car driving by sounds like it's going to explode. You should try that DBX box though... i read in TapeOp that some guy kept blowing out his monitors with it

[projuice]

The problem you say you have with the atack when you turn the 808kick louder can be solved by just highcutting the kick to about 1000HZ and just use that one for the lows! dip other frequencies to make the bass stand out more like 250hz and 500hz. After that add some sub freq like 50hz and tame it if needed with something like an L1. Then you have the the big bass how you want all you have to do now is layer another kick on it for the high and attack ! Lowcut that kick eq it and compres it until it sounds nice and snappy and then mix in in with the subkick untill it sounds right to you!

Hope this will help a little!

[Puma]

In my mind, the worst cocktail today in modern hiphop is:

808 + Limiter!

They are so heavily overloaded, just cause it needs to be so freaking "loud"!

Mims/Hot track is a perfect example.

I'd say, forget the damn master limiter - for now! Let a mix-genius rescue that one.

Then you should/could/would be able to make some good booomy stuff. To make it knock more, give it some eq in the highs.

[Alex Niedt]

I kinda agree with Puma. It seems like most people crush 808's w/ a limiter out of sheer mixing laziness.

[Stitch333]

I would say that limiters can get you great results with 808s if you use it right. Try this: mult the original 808 kick track and add a limiter and tuck the double. With an L1/L2 or such on the double, crank the threshold AND ceiling til you get a lil distortion. Then eq to taste, notch eq sweep to find the bump.
On the 2mix dynamics, make sure you have a HP filter or at least sidechain to allow the lows to pass.

Also, as always, the source material will greatly influence the quality of the end result.

[Sirocco]

cut some of the very low (im talking under 40 hz) to clear the mud up and give the transient the prominence it needs to stand out in a mix. also double the kicker, cut the double so its JUST the attack portion, overdrive it through your choice of hardware software (i prefer a softclipper), then highpass that to about 4k, then com-press it with the original, EQ both to taste. (you may want to roll off some highs on the overdriven copy or turn on your oversampling feature if you have one)

[CWsounds]

I sometimes use a TOUCH, of antares tube with the angel. But you have to be really careful with it, it can bring out some harch freq's.

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by CWsounds

I sometimes use a TOUCH, of antares tube with the angel. But you have to be really careful with it, it can bring out some harch freq's.

great tip...the thing with antares tube is just like how u need to treat waves L2..if you want a more extreme effect..layer a few instances and do slight changes, rather than pushing one. the ways these plugins are coded, they mathemtically emulate what a tube is supposed to do, and plugins, while not analog, seem to "crack" under pressure or extreme circumstances,hence, why this is a good thing to do. there are exceptions to the rule however (waves ssl, algrothmix, urs, flux, etc)

[Methlab]

I don't even use the attack on the 808, I let a vinyl sample do that for me. And yeah, Antares Tube is in every mix I do.

[bgrotto]

I think in cases like these it'd be super-helpful if you were to include a sample of the beat so we could listen for conflicting instruments.