GOOD "bread and butter" library for Reason ?

[orjanbeats]

I'm using Reason 3 for beats, and I would like to have a good sound library of instruments for it. I know that Reason 3 is probably everything you could ever want if you're good at sound designing and tweaking your own sounds, but right now I wanna focuse on getting better at composed beats, and rather have a go-to library of already tweaked and ready patches at my fingertips (kinda like with some hardware workstations; just load up some premade patch and make beats). Needless to say, I need QUALITY. I need a library that will turn Reason into a rompler with ready patches that could fit in industry quality beats. Anybody have any suggestions ? I make hip hop, and maybe some r&b from time to time.. It doesn't matter if its commercial or free or ebay stuff, as long as its quality.

[halfguard]

for reason, i think the best thing is the sonic reality refils.....

[orjanbeats]

Ok does anybody have any more opinions? I've heard that the Sonic Gold refills bundle is kinda thin and lifeless, and that the patches aren't really tweaked, but kinda just like the Reason stock patches; dry sounds, just more of them... Appreciate advices

[halfguard]

the problem you talk about is not because of the sonic reality refils, its because of reason. thin and lifeless is how i would describe reason. thats why i dont really use it much anymore. ive got some decent mellotron samples that i still use it for, but thats about it.

[orjanbeats]

Wasn't the sound engine thing problem fixed with version 3 ?

[halfguard]

they say that it was, but do your own test. compare some patches from the nnxt, get the best samples you can and cake them with effects. compare that to a good hardware romplayer (motif/fantom/triton) and you tell me the answer............next, load your best drums into redrum, then into an mpc, actually forget the mpc. load them into battery for a more = test. let me know what you think......

[Beat God]

Originally Posted by halfguard

they say that it was, but do your own test. compare some patches from the nnxt, get the best samples you can and cake them with effects. compare that to a good hardware romplayer (motif/fantom/triton) and you tell me the answer............next, load your best drums into redrum, then into an mpc, actually forget the mpc. load them into battery for a more = test. let me lnow what you think......

this man is right. i did a similar test 2 years ago and it forced me to stop using reason.
-BG

[orjanbeats]

Originally Posted by Beat God

this man is right. i did a similar test 2 years ago and it forced me to stop using reason.
-BG

Ok was this with version 3 of Reason ? or earlier versions ?

and the thing about nn-xt patches caked with effects by me vs triton/motif/fantom patches seem more like me vs korg/yamaha/roland programmers, than Reason's sound engine vs hardware's sound engine ..

And IF I should move on to a vst based setup instead, with cubase or something as the host, which rompler vst would you recommend ? I've heard a lot about Sampletank, but a lot of the guys I've spoken to that has lots of experience, says that Sampletank and the likes are mainly just a bunch of static sounding samples, without any expression in the instruments.

How is actually the Motif soundbank included with Cubase 4, compared to the real hardware Motif ?

And thanks for the comments, I know that probably 90 % of the people on this board will have better knowledge than me, I am just letting you know about the educated guesses I've heard from around, so you can confirm if its right or not... thanks


peace

[Antagonist]

I've been an avid reason user since day one. I bought it when most people hadn't even heard of it yet. I've since used 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 and I'm happy to say that the quality of 3.0 is very good if you work with it. Can't wait til 4.0 though....

Anyways Sonic Reality Gold Vol 1-20 is off the chain. Alot of the combinator patches are very good, several of them "right out of the box" I would take against my fantom or other synths I've used.

If you want a good example of this, check out the Triple Guitars Pack, and try the Pink Flamingo setup...It's a wonderful nylon acoustic guitar in the vein of the spanish guitar we've heard a million times. It can come up with some great product that I would rival against a "real guitar" anyday.

That's my two cents, I would definatly give the sonic reality stuff a try, plus the beauty of reason is that you can load in basically any samples you want and go to town.

If you want a good judge at what reason can do, check this out:

www.myspace.com/scoobroc

This is one of my associates from California. If you listen to the songs Candy Paint, and the first one on the player, (I forget what it's called) these were all done in Reason 3.0 using alot of "stock" samples and recording directly into a Digi 002 without pre-amps, converters, or anything.

I'm proud of these tracks that they made. They took what they had, and made some definate high quality product "in-the-box" using only reason.
They just went to the Reason Seminar last weekend, and won one of the best in beats categories.

So any Reason doubters take note, if you work with it, brilliant results can be had.

Regards
Antagonist
www.myspace.com/leftcoastrider

[daillman]

i feel like if you mix game up to par you can do it with reason or what ever program you have,like some one said on here,your best peice of gear is your ears.i did a lot of good stuff on reason and if you listen to a cd of my songs you wont say that was done on reason or thats was done with the fantom or motif....step up your mix game its not reason....

[over-man]

Originally Posted by daillman

step up your mix game its not reason....

This is sort of true, in that you can always increase your skills and ears to create a better product, regardless of what hardware/software you use. At the same time, I have hip-hop guys send me the Reason files they create, and I import everything onto separate tracks in Logic and re-mix. Even before I add better compression and eq, the beats sound better in Logic. And once I'm done adding eq, compression, reverb, etc. in Logic, the final product smokes the original Reason beat.

[orjanbeats]

Thanks for the long and detailed answer, Antagonist !

Originally Posted by Antagonist

Anyways Sonic Reality Gold Vol 1-20 is off the chain. Alot of the combinator patches are very good, several of them "right out of the box" I would take against my fantom or other synths I've used.

Seriously ? Could the premade patches in that compete with the premade patches in for example a Motif ? Anybody else wanna share their experiences with this refill bundle ?

[halfguard]

first, i wanna say, i dont hate reason. its a tool, that although not my favorite, i still use. i have issue with the sound engine, if not, id use it more because it can do a lot of cool things. that said, all of you that say reason sounds fine, and its our mixing that needs work....you all just made my point for me..it takes alot for reason to even sound close to a motif/fantom etc.....i dont want something that i have to spend so much time in mixing to make it sound good. yea everything needs attention, but your reason tracks will need much more attention. like i said, put the same samples in reason, then put them in battery or kontakt (not even hardware) and let me know what you think......and for reason, i still say that the sonic reality refils are the way to go.......

[khameln]

Sonic Reality refills are definitely NOT bread-and-butter modern production sounds.

I got them believing that they were... But they aren't. My advice is, get a Motif rack. For bread and butter stuff you need sounds that are generic enough to not all individually scream for attention, but yet are warm and full, and mix well together.

Honestly I spend a lot of time fighting the SR... Don't get me wrong, it's a great product, but just not for bread/butter stuff. It's perfect for when you want that one sound that *does* stick out in the mix... That super-clear, detailed, nuanced kind of thing. But for basic production sounds, the way they are recorded and tweaked sounds like they are actually meant to be replacements for acoustic instruments, instead of backing tracks in an R&B song.

I remember how I got to the point where I was doing all this stuff just to get the basic sounds right, and then one day I watched a certain pretty well-known multiplatinum engineer mix a pop track and he hardly did anything to a lot of the sounds... But the thing was, they came from hardware workstations, and they just sounded right for the style and ready with very little tweaking. Put them together and the song just comes up in the ballpark from the get-go.

I've spent a LOT of time working with these sounds, and they're in a lot of my tracks, so that's why I feel so strongly.

Hope that helps.

[halfguard]

i feel what your sayin khameln. however, i dont know if i agree with they can replace acoustic instruments. but your right, they have their place. i recomended the sr refils because wanted something for reason.

[khameln]

Yeah I mean again, the Sonic Reality refills are excellent quality and the company did a really great job with them... So I don't want to come across as veiwing them in a negative light, because they are very well put together and sound great. They stand out from nearly every other refill I've tried, and the company should be commended for putting together a set of refills that is so consistent.

It's just that, they aren't good for trying to do the bread-and-butter basic building blocks job of a Motif or Triton.

I like having them both in order to put the strengths of everything together.

[orjanbeats]

Okay thanks, well I guess I could try the Sr Gold refills before I eventually get a hardware workstation or module. The sounds being to "rich" is not a immediate problem for me, I could always thin them down later (or is it a problem) ? I just need something that I can pull up and make beats/ hip hop productions with instantly (or as instantly as possible). And if I use the dry Reason patches as they are, they just sound like a casio keyboard or something lol. Are there a lot of combinator patches in the Sr gold collection ?

[kojo]

sorry to tell ya, but already tweaked sounds for reason that are comparable to something off a workstation are a rare commodity. you HAVE to do it yourself. I use Reason 3.0 and the Sonic Refill Gold Edition along with a few other gem refills. the combinator patches for the sonic refills are CRAP. all they did was stick one instance of an NNXT with a reverb on a neutral setting for a ton of the patches. I have a motif ES rack that I use now and then...if you dont want to do much of ANY kind of tweaking or sound design, i suggest you go that route and use cubase with it. Otherwise, Reason is great. I really got into the program and use it more than the motif now since I hate tracking out/recording the motif patches (yeh, im lazy in that regard). That and the fact that I'm part of a production team and my partner uses Reason, I can send him sessions and everything will pop right up and he can do his thing to it and vice versa, very convenient, less traveling. Using the combinator and making custom patches for it is essential for me...ill have like 4 patches in it (NNXT, NN19, maelstorm, etc) layered and routed to the FX like rv7000...makes a nice big sound.

[Derrick Camby]

For the people talking about Reason's sound quality, do you have the mastering suite open? Everytime I start a new beat, I delete it....

[halfguard]

actually. if i use it i might even bypass the reason mixer and go right into pt. i dont use the mastering suite at all.

[defjamm]

Originally Posted by kojo

sorry to tell ya, but already tweaked sounds for reason that are comparable to something off a workstation are a rare commodity. you HAVE to do it yourself. I use Reason 3.0 and the Sonic Refill Gold Edition along with a few other gem refills. the combinator patches for the sonic refills are CRAP. all they did was stick one instance of an NNXT with a reverb on a neutral setting for a ton of the patches. I have a motif ES rack that I use now and then...if you dont want to do much of ANY kind of tweaking or sound design, i suggest you go that route and use cubase with it. Otherwise, Reason is great. I really got into the program and use it more than the motif now since I hate tracking out/recording the motif patches (yeh, im lazy in that regard). That and the fact that I'm part of a production team and my partner uses Reason, I can send him sessions and everything will pop right up and he can do his thing to it and vice versa, very convenient, less traveling. Using the combinator and making custom patches for it is essential for me...ill have like 4 patches in it (NNXT, NN19, maelstorm, etc) layered and routed to the FX like rv7000...makes a nice big sound.

i can second this and what khameln said. the samples are good of the gold edition, but the programming/sound design is a joke compared to hardware romplers. there are also thousands of patches, but instead of many thousand they should concentrate on 1000 really good ones (less time needed to skip through the sounds).
this is also the same with most software romplers. they are just playing back samples without much sounddesign/programming.

but it is a good choice if you have reason, just know what you get.

[Beat God]

Originally Posted by orjanbeats

Ok was this with version 3 of Reason ? or earlier versions ?

and the thing about nn-xt patches caked with effects by me vs triton/motif/fantom patches seem more like me vs korg/yamaha/roland programmers, than Reason's sound engine vs hardware's sound engine ..

And IF I should move on to a vst based setup instead, with cubase or something as the host, which rompler vst would you recommend ? I've heard a lot about Sampletank, but a lot of the guys I've spoken to that has lots of experience, says that Sampletank and the likes are mainly just a bunch of static sounding samples, without any expression in the instruments.

How is actually the Motif soundbank included with Cubase 4, compared to the real hardware Motif ?

And thanks for the comments, I know that probably 90 % of the people on this board will have better knowledge than me, I am just letting you know about the educated guesses I've heard from around, so you can confirm if its right or not... thanks


peace

I was a reason user from 1.0 through 3. I only used 3 for a few months and switched to guru cuz i was just using reason at that point for redrum.

For all of u peeps talking about mixing skills and reason. I never tried to mix in reason I am just talking about the way it sounds. The playback of samples and even the synths in there have this sound that is just not pleasing to me. Sure I made some great music in there, but that doesn't negate the fact that I can get a better sound out of other software. Isn't this gearslutz? Aren't we all trying to get the best sound possible? A simple test reveals that reason just doesn't have the best sound.

-BG

[Stitch333]

If you want your production to really stand out, start your own sample library.

[orjanbeats]

Ok I might consider switching to a vst environment then. Does anybody have any suggestions for a nice software rompler with GOOD already tweaked patches? As close to a motif/fantom/triton or whatever.. I've heard that Sampletank actually is crap .. Does anybody have any experiences with that HAlion One that follows the new Cubase 4, with the Motif sound set built in ?

peace

[MERC476]

I agree with alot of people on this thread about Reason not being as clean as a Motif/Fantom etc....Hell, I have a TR Rack that smokes the sounds in Reason. When I say that, I mean without having to tweak anything. I use Nuendo, I have an MPC 2000xl, and Reason. And when I get prducers block using Reason, i move on to Nuendo etc.....In my case, I like having the different options of what to create my beats with. Personally, Reason is much faster to start your creation but takes longer to make it sound right. Nuendo may take a little longer cause i use VST's and my TR RACK...by Monday MY MOTIF RACK!!!!!!!!!!!WHOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! So I would definately switch up from Reason but you best keep it installed and use it when you find your stuck with your VST environment. I have Sample Tank 2xl. the sounds aren't bad. Just hate how long it takes to switch from instrument to instrument. That's why I want to start buildin a nice collection or sound modules. I may buy the fantom next but don't tell my wife!

[khameln]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

If you want your production to really stand out, start your own sample library.

You still need a foundation though, which is what this thread is about.

[Doc Mixwell]

Check out the Omni-Sounds Refill. In terms of sound quality, go with the Reason Sound Libraries.

Propellerhead Software

peace
mixwell

[orjanbeats]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

In terms of sound quality, go with the Reason Sound Libraries.

what do you mean, do you mean those stock refills that follow the program ?

[Doc Mixwell]

No, the after market refills they sell on their web site.

[orjanbeats]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

No, the after market refills they sell on their web site.

Ok the Electromechanical and the Reason Drum Kits, etc ? or the other commercial ones that they advertise for at their site ?