Just went on SAE's open house tour...

[go0dfella]

i must say, from a person like myself's perspective (complete beginner and new to engineering/production) it was a bit intimidating and overwhelming...BUT, i did not let it detour me from still wanting to step up and enter this specific career field. my question is though....from many of your experiences...would you RECOMMEND i attend a school like SAE in miami...or is there another rout (cheapier, simpler, etc) that someone whos 20 years old, and wants to produce/engineer records but has no real knowledge or experience in the field yet? any input/feedback on what i need to or should be doing, to reach my ultimate goal (become a sucessful producer/egineer making at least 40 to 50 gs a year or more by the time in 35). is that far fetched fantasy or possible reality? help a brother out. thanks guys = ).

[ryder215]

if you are in florida i highly recommend checking out full sail, i got to sae new york and its a great crash course for the audio engineering field, they def do teach you a lot but its very overwhelming. the full time program is 9 months and it seems like everything is crammed in so tight that you wouldn't have any free time to yourself. we just got done learning the ssl g series console and a week ago we learned the Neve 88r, talk about intimidating, but if you are in the FL area I encourage you to check out full sail, i hear its a great school.

[DRC]

I hate to be one to sh*t on someones dreams, and I dont think thats excatly what Im doing here, but....

Do your self a favor and go to a four-year school that has Audio courses. Go get yourself a B.A. in something other than Audio Engineering, but take all the audio and music related courses you can. If you really fall in love with it after the intial Basic Audio Systems type courses that dont involve all the flashy gear, then take more courses as your electives. If you can get through Music Theory I and II and science of acoustics and electronics with a smile on your face then you know you didnt just hand over thousands of dollars for a plaque on the wall that says you showed up for some courses.

And most important: Go to a state school if possible and save yourself some money. You can always graduate a year or so late with a double major. One of them being Audio Engineering, the other being what ever you want but you'll have a leg to stand on out in the world when you wanna start doing YOUR projects, using YOUR gear that you can pay for with a job that pays real money.

I know guys that use to be tracking engineers that are just assisting on jingles and sh*t because thats all thats left. All the great band they use to record just come in to do drums now. They do the rest on their DAW of choice at home or rehersal spot. Rap/HipHop is probably even worse because the arrangments are more sample driven than other forms of recording.

Not saying it will happen to you, but you could intern for six or seven months running for coffee, cleaning toilets in addition to learning your way around the console, mic locker, etc. and still not have a job waiting for you. If you have your degree in say E.E. or even hotel management (which might help land you a job as a studio manager) you can still give a studio a shot right out of college. If it doesnt work out you gave it a shot and had a great time in college and have a fighting chance at a living wage in this f@cked up world!

Best of luck to you.

[RobR]

Ditto

[filterayok]

do you feel your a VERY likable guy? Do you KNOW for a FACT without question you have what it takes to be the BEST producer in the industry? Would you rather die trying to do this, then do anything else? Does your heart pump faster when you hear people talk about the music industry?

if you answered yes to all those questions, you MIGHT have a chance at breaking in the industry.... theres NO ROOM for "hey i might as well give it a shot." Theres simply to many people with a burning passion who will do WHATEVER it takes...

take the CHEAPEST/SHORTEST course you can find that can get you an internship in a major production house, and be the greatest, humblest intern to ever step foot thru that door... let everybody that works there know on a consistant basis, that THEY are the expert, and your a little pee-on who will do ANYTHING for them. And if ANYBODY says "hows it sound?" you ALWAYS answer "wow sounds amazing" no matter what!

[eqverb]

Originally Posted by DRC

I hate to be one to sh*t on someones dreams, and I dont think thats excatly what Im doing here, but....

Do your self a favor and go to a four-year school that has Audio courses. Go get yourself a B.A. in something other than Audio Engineering, but take all the audio and music related courses you can. If you really fall in love with it after the intial Basic Audio Systems type courses that dont involve all the flashy gear, then take more courses as your electives. If you can get through Music Theory I and II and science of acoustics and electronics with a smile on your face then you know you didnt just hand over thousands of dollars for a plaque on the wall that says you showed up for some courses.

And most important: Go to a state school if possible and save yourself some money. You can always graduate a year or so late with a double major. One of them being Audio Engineering, the other being what ever you want but you'll have a leg to stand on out in the world when you wanna start doing YOUR projects, using YOUR gear that you can pay for with a job that pays real money.

I know guys that use to be tracking engineers that are just assisting on jingles and sh*t because thats all thats left. All the great band they use to record just come in to do drums now. They do the rest on their DAW of choice at home or rehersal spot. Rap/HipHop is probably even worse because the arrangments are more sample driven than other forms of recording.

Not saying it will happen to you, but you could intern for six or seven months running for coffee, cleaning toilets in addition to learning your way around the console, mic locker, etc. and still not have a job waiting for you. If you have your degree in say E.E. or even hotel management (which might help land you a job as a studio manager) you can still give a studio a shot right out of college. If it doesnt work out you gave it a shot and had a great time in college and have a fighting chance at a living wage in this f@cked up world!

Best of luck to you.

This is the best advice you can ever get !!!!!!!

[Spookym15]

SO. I teach at an SAE occasionally. I am doing a lot of work in curriculum. First I must say you will get the same education at SAE that you will get at Full Sail, second there is a 20,000 price difference and a bit of a better standing in the recording community going to SAE. Save money, get the same education, learn what you can in you classes but the day you get your computer open it up install logic and pro tools and start learning the software.

I have students come up to me 12 weeks in the program that are like "when should I install pro tools?" I reply about 10 weeks ago. Go to class and get an internship, job placement does help but take the time you are not in the studio and do an internship.

Dont approach this half way, take all the time you can and learn everything you can. You will get a lot out of the program if you really go out and learn all that you can, and read all the books they give you, they dont balance out your desk or hold stuff down.

The Miami school is a good school. I have friends that went to full sail and said it was good, but they said it was just too expensive.

I like the 4 year approach, mine was 5 but I got two degrees. But if you dont want the BS of going to a 4 year school, ie english 101, history 101, biology 101 which are important classes but not to a lot of people... go to a nine month program school. At a 4 year school you wont see a studio until year 3 most likely.

[gibsonlp75]

I went to SAE part time and it wasnt NEARLY as intimidating as the full time course seemed... not to mention, you can have twice as much time in the studios if you book enough time!!

For me, SAE fit perfect because I got in, got out, learned what I needed and started my career(intern while your IN school, dont wait til your almost done or out - this will help you in class as well!) without having to take maths, sciences, english, etc... and if theres a science or math you need in engineering, sae taught you what you need to know.

For me, SAE was great; however, I do completely understand where these guys statements come from about having a BA... just not the path that was right for me.

[Mixmoses]

Originally Posted by DRC

I hate to be one to sh*t on someones dreams, and I dont think thats excatly what Im doing here, but....

Do your self a favor and go to a four-year school that has Audio courses. Go get yourself a B.A. in something other than Audio Engineering, but take all the audio and music related courses you can. If you really fall in love with it after the intial Basic Audio Systems type courses that dont involve all the flashy gear, then take more courses as your electives. If you can get through Music Theory I and II and science of acoustics and electronics with a smile on your face then you know you didnt just hand over thousands of dollars for a plaque on the wall that says you showed up for some courses.

And most important: Go to a state school if possible and save yourself some money. You can always graduate a year or so late with a double major. One of them being Audio Engineering, the other being what ever you want but you'll have a leg to stand on out in the world when you wanna start doing YOUR projects, using YOUR gear that you can pay for with a job that pays real money.

I know guys that use to be tracking engineers that are just assisting on jingles and sh*t because thats all thats left. All the great band they use to record just come in to do drums now. They do the rest on their DAW of choice at home or rehersal spot. Rap/HipHop is probably even worse because the arrangments are more sample driven than other forms of recording.

Not saying it will happen to you, but you could intern for six or seven months running for coffee, cleaning toilets in addition to learning your way around the console, mic locker, etc. and still not have a job waiting for you. If you have your degree in say E.E. or even hotel management (which might help land you a job as a studio manager) you can still give a studio a shot right out of college. If it doesnt work out you gave it a shot and had a great time in college and have a fighting chance at a living wage in this f@cked up world!

Best of luck to you.

I have to agree with alot of what DRC mentioned. I decided to take the full time 9 month SAE course, don't regret it at all. I had a blast, made some great friends, and learned alot. However, you will realize very, very quickly after graduation that you know next to nothing. Seriously, any recording school will only teach you the basics, and as intense as those 9 months were, the first project I worked on brought me to the quick realization that I had only begun to scratch the surface. You will run into plenty of people at school that are convinced that they don't need to do any grunt work at the local studio because they feel that they are ready to sit behind the console and stroke Neve's master fader tutt .

On the issue of job placement, I was one of the fortunate ones to have started working two weeks prior to graduation (be prepared for the reality that work is not just waiting for you to graduate). I would estimate that approximately 90 % of my class did not find work, and of the 10 % that did, only about 3% had work consistently or decided that they could deal with life in this industry. Let me just make one more thing clear. I did not get a job because of the school's job placement department. I am not saying that they don't help, but if you expect to rely solely on them to find you work, you better stand in line, and it's a long line buddy because you will see students that graduated when you came in for orientation that are still looking for that first break. I got work because I busted my ass. I was in school working on my labs first thing in the morning, and was there untill they closed. I would volunteer for anything and everything that I possibly could. I networked with everyone at school from the students to the school director, and all it takes is being in the right place at the right time and showing that you are dedicated and motivated. Because that seemingly stupid volunteer set up and breakdown spot at the local battle of the bands might be the foot in the door opportunity that will set you apart from everyone else at school.

That being said, if you are anything like me, this is something that I had to do. So much so that I sold my house in Virginia, and moved my wife and kids to South Florida so I could persue a dream. Did it pay off? Very nicely for about 2 years. I was working consistently, got to work with some great people, worked one on one with well known artists and industry people, got some album credits,and had a blast doing it. However, the projects I was working on ended, and now there is very little going on to support myself on as a freelance engineer save for some small projects here and there (there are dry spells in the this line of work) and of course my own personal projects. And Of course I can't financially afford to feed a family on an intern's lack of salary. (yes, I pondered going into a few local studios to try and get something more stable as opposed to working the freelance angle). So lucky for me, I have experience in another profession, and although I didn't really want to do this, I have (at least temporarily) re-entered the world of the 9 to 5.

Anyway, the point is, do what you have to do. I know all too well the feeling you have, and how you have to follow your heart. But in this business, make sure you bring your head along as well, you'll need it. Make sure you have a backup plan, and above all, do it because you love it, or don't do it at all (we already have too many people in it for the money)

Sorry for the long post.

Peace

Moses

[go0dfella]

a huge thank you yo EVERYONE who responded to this post with their input, alot of your advice has helped me tremendously. i have alot to consider and i will be making some serious life choices so now is the time to sit down and make sure i have a backup and KNOW what i want 100% out of life and this business as well. thanks again guys.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by go0dfella

any input/feedback on what i need to or should be doing, to reach my ultimate goal (become a sucessful producer/egineer making at least 40 to 50 gs a year or more by the time in 35). is that far fetched fantasy or possible reality?.

Firstly, don't set goals based on income or age...it's like acting, financial success could come soon, late or never...you should really ask yourself will you be happy working in this industry, accepting you might never make the break into "successful" producer/engineer status - by which I mean financially/commercially successful - I'd hope most people who've been doing it a few years have done things they consider successful on a critical level.

In short - if your aim is to make money, best choose another career. If your aim is to make good music, carry on!

FWIW, I'd hesitate to recommend any path of learning that will cost you more than you'll make in your first year in work (assuming you're lucky enough to get a job). I've heard of so many horror stories, where the graduating student has to take a job immediately just to pay the loans back, leaving no time to find studio work/unable to work for lo pay/free. Just something to consider. If you'd need to take loans out to do it, I'd say look for another alternative.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by go0dfella

i must say, from a person like myself's perspective (complete beginner and new to engineering/production) it was a bit intimidating and overwhelming...BUT, i did not let it detour me from still wanting to step up and enter this specific career field. my question is though....from many of your experiences...would you RECOMMEND i attend a school like SAE in miami...or is there another rout (cheapier, simpler, etc) that someone whos 20 years old, and wants to produce/engineer records but has no real knowledge or experience in the field yet? any input/feedback on what i need to or should be doing, to reach my ultimate goal (become a sucessful producer/egineer making at least 40 to 50 gs a year or more by the time in 35). is that far fetched fantasy or possible reality? help a brother out. thanks guys = ).

First of all, anything is possible. Set your goals, and achieve them. Don't let anyone tell you it's not possible.

I went to a recording school. It was the Recording Workshop in Chillicothe, OH. It was a 2 month program. Looking back, I realized I didn't need to go. I actually learned more on my own than I did at school. I don't regret going though.

However, a lot of people ask me if school is a good way to go. Knowing what i know now, I would say don't go to school. Don't go to a 4 year college. Don't go to an audio school either. The amount of money you would spend on school you could spend on a nice studio set up and start recording as much as possible. You will want to have your own equipment anyway so why put it off?

Big studios are shutting down and the present and future of music production is home studios. With all the books, magazines, websites, and a few good dvd's out there, you could be well on your way and saving a ton of money. You are going to need/want a studio when you are done with school anyway, so I say skip that part and learn by doing on your own time. A lot of the most successful engineers/producers did not go to school.

And even if you are a better learned by someone teaching you, then you could still skip school, buy some equipment, and intern at a home studio that gets a lot of business. Believe me, I have seen a lot of home studios that still need assistants/interns. The key is finding the succseful ones who have a good track record and good clients. Then when you aren't there, you will have 24/7 access to your equipment to try new things you have learned.

I will even make a list of good books/websites/magazies/dvd's that you can help you get started if you are interested.

[go0dfella]

my goal IS to make good music..BUT however...I do plan on starting a family sometime within the next 10 years or less and I need to know that Im gonna be able to put food on the table for them and be able to provide somewhat. I dont aimt o be RICH but I dont wanna be struggling to put food in my kids mouth either yano. Thats what im mainly concerned with.

[go0dfella]

Originally Posted by ryst

First of all, anything is possible. Set your goals, and achieve them. Don't let anyone tell you it's not possible.

I went to a recording school. It was the Recording Workshop in Chillicothe, OH. It was a 2 month program. Looking back, I realized I didn't need to go. I actually learned more on my own than I did at school. I don't regret going though.

However, a lot of people ask me if school is a good way to go. Knowing what i know now, I would say don't go to school. Don't go to a 4 year college. Don't go to an audio school either. The amount of money you would spend on school you could spend on a nice studio set up and start recording as much as possible. You will want to have your own equipment anyway so why put it off?

Big studios are shutting down and the present and future of music production is home studios. With all the books, magazines, websites, and a few good dvd's out there, you could be well on your way and saving a ton of money. You are going to need/want a studio when you are done with school anyway, so I say skip that part and learn by doing on your own time. A lot of the most successful engineers/producers did not go to school.

And even if you are a better learned by someone teaching you, then you could still skip school, buy some equipment, and intern at a home studio that gets a lot of business. Believe me, I have seen a lot of home studios that still need assistants/interns. The key is finding the succseful ones who have a good track record and good clients. Then when you aren't there, you will have 24/7 access to your equipment to try new things you have learned.

I will even make a list of good books/websites/magazies/dvd's that you can help you get started if you are interested.

i like everything you said, and im strongly considering this route for sure....i will however most likely continue the community college im in right now and get all the BS courses out of the way, just so i can feel a little more comfortable if it doesnt end up as planned down the road yano.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by go0dfella

my goal IS to make good music..BUT however...I do plan on starting a family sometime within the next 10 years or less and I need to know that Im gonna be able to put food on the table for them and be able to provide somewhat. I dont aimt o be RICH but I dont wanna be struggling to put food in my kids mouth either yano. Thats what im mainly concerned with.

In that case, get a 9-5 job and keep the music as a hobby.

There is nothing that will guarantee you your 50k income, no school which will teach you to be the perfect engineer or get you a guaranteed job.

You can help yourself by not getting yourself into too much debt, and by making the best of every minute you have in a studio be that at college or interning etc.

Personally I did a standard uni course in the UK (ie no fancy SSLs, not even a Pro-Tools Le rig, although this was a good 6 years ago). Now I know SSLs, Neves, etc extremely well, plus I'd put my Pro-Tools skills up against just about anyone in london in terms of speed and depth of knowledge. All of that was learnt on the job along with practice on my own LE rig.

I've managed to scrape a living over the last few years working as an assistant and engineer as well as supplementing my income with other related work like programming ringtones, marking A-Level Music-tech work etc. I'm now earning a wage that pays the bills purely from the studio work, along with being able to occasionally cover my actress wife when she's out of work. No way could I support a kid though - not that I want them yet, I'm only 27.

I've also got a 1st Class BSc (Hons) degree in Music ACOUSTICS and Recording - although I've never really needed to go for a "proper" job, I'd hope that would stand up in it's own right - in other words, it's something to fall back on.

Because of my own experiences, I wouldn't ever recommend anyone to take a course just because they had great equipment to learn on - and esp if they charged a huge fee for the course. What's more important is the quality of the teaching, and if you're going to be in a position to seach for a job when you finish - ie no crippling debts, especially important for you based on the above.

I think what I've got to say sums up to this (I'm not exactly the most concise of people..): if you're not prepared to sacrifice just about everything to do with having a life for at least the first few years of your potential career, don't bother. I've lost count of the arguments I've had with my partners over me working late/taking on extra work on a supposed day off, the number of parties or events I've missed because of work, etc etc.

Hope that helps. I don't want to put you off, but do decide what your priorities are, and above all please please don't take out any loans or anything like that just to go to SAE or Fullsail - you will regret it.

[Switchcraft]

If you are gonna go to school, get a BA~! Take the extra time and get it. More doors, more options... Who knows, you couold get into equipment design, studio design, acoustics too. Having a BA will make all other options easier and .... it is worth it.