How much should I take for mixing 6 rap songs?

[Joemamma]

1. How much should I take for mixing (and mastering) 6 rap songs?

I'm not a mastering engineer, but I've made some decent masters on the tc electronics 6000. Plus I think the songs are "only" for a demo.
I have not had any hits or anything like that, but I make quality mixes in many genres (hiphop, r&b, soul, funk, jazz).

2. Also, how long should it take me to mix 6 songs? I know this varies from song to song and project to project. But what is the normal amount of time you would need to mix a song?

I'm thinking something like a workday (8-10 hours) per song. That's somewhere between 48 and 60 hours in total for 6 songs. So I'm thinking about taking something in the range of $900-1100 for the 6 songs.
How does that sound?

[Dor]

Take as much as you can without either party feeling like they were ripped off.

D

[qubi]

I think that's WAY too low, even for someone with little experience (if that's the case) even for a demo. I'm not sure what kind of studio set up you have, and how "pro" it is. But at least compare yourself to other nearby project studio's.. Is anyone charging as little as $18 an hour ($1100 by 60hr)?? mind you, you are not just manning a mixer or tracking and giving them their takes on CD, you are MIXING, and PRE-MASTERING. I'd take a look at what other similar studio's in your area are charging per hour, even for basic recording (and you are doing a lot more than that), and gauge accordingly.

FWIW i work on a lot of pop/world music stuff, and for material that i've produced and familiar with, it takes about a day and a half to mix and pre-master. I like to have that second half day to listen with fresh ears and tweak things. and the mastering happens in the end after all the mixes are done. my material is usually 40-70 tracks so depending on your track count your time may vary.

Of course, you don't want to scare your client off, specially if you're just starting out, but you have to value your own work and time fairly, cause if you don't, no one else will..

Best of luck.

[matthew.sawicki]

I'm not implying that my situation is anything like yours, but for myself I charge $120 for mixes that I didn't track. I figure I spend an hour or so fixing everything that whoever tracked it didn't do the way that I wanted, and a couple hours for the mix.

Blah... I'm just blabbin though.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Joemamma

1. How much should I take for mixing (and mastering) 6 rap songs?

I'm not a mastering engineer, but I've made some decent masters on the tc electronics 6000. Plus I think the songs are "only" for a demo.
I have not had any hits or anything like that, but I make quality mixes in many genres (hiphop, r&b, soul, funk, jazz).

2. Also, how long should it take me to mix 6 songs? I know this varies from song to song and project to project. But what is the normal amount of time you would need to mix a song?

I'm thinking something like a workday (8-10 hours) per song. That's somewhere between 48 and 60 hours in total for 6 songs. So I'm thinking about taking something in the range of $900-1100 for the 6 songs.
How does that sound?

I couldn't imagine anyone who knew what they were doing charging less than $300/ song.

[boodah]

I charge $50/hr. Make sure you have a planner or something to log dates, start and end times you worked per song. Also include what you did. ie. 2hrs. cleaning the track from glitches, bleeds etc..., settings used, plugs etc...

[ShaneFontane]

yeah man, i have to agree with everyone on here... thats too cheap... i think the cheapest i ever seen anything decent done was $250 per song and that was a deal. i would def shoot for $1500 OR tell them you will mix a four song EP for $1k even. Unless you LOVE this material I would not come close to budging on your price because this will be the price they expect forever as well as the price they tell others. AND if you do it for $250 a song, I would let them know that "Hey, I'll cut you a preferred client deal of $250/song because I really dig your music and I wanna help get this demo spanked up for those great A&R people you are lining up."

Don't forget, people don't only by the product - they buy your personal brand and if your personal brand is perceived to be of value, then this adds perceived value to the service you are selling

[ShaneFontane]

Originally Posted by boodah

I charge $50/hr. Make sure you have a planner or something to log dates, start and end times you worked per song. Also include what you did. ie. 2hrs. cleaning the track from glitches, bleeds etc..., settings used, plugs etc...

yeah - this is great advice. a lot of people forget to to do such on creative projects. clients like to know what they actually paid for during these hours.

[djui5]

If they're for demo's, real demo's that won't see the light of day and your positive about that, then I could mix all 6 in 2 days, which could cost anywhere from $1,500 to $3,500, depending on the studio I mixed it in.
As for yourself, I think anything less than $300 a song will only make you feel underpaid, personally. I posted my "rates" for comparison. I don't have major label rap/hip/hop credits either, well not really anyway...

[Joemamma]

Originally Posted by Azriel_7

And what did you charge for those?
Maybe they came to you because someone said you would do a decent job cheap.
You may already be somewhat boxed into a bad scenario by word of mouth.

Thanks for all the feedback!
I think I will charge more!

The thing is, I've never been payed to mix anything.
I'm a producer first and foremost, so all the stuff I have been doing so far has "been for me". I've basically been getting talented musicians to play for me in the studio for free. In return I've been recording and mixing music for them.

[illynoise]

It's apparent here that most of you guys must be working with people who HAVE money. I mix as a part of what I do. So if someone asked me how much for a mix, I would say, how ever long it takes.

If you guys are making 3-500 a mix, your in a spot where the rest of us wish they could be. Good for you. Try to tell the kids I work with 100 a mix, and they look at you like they look at all of the other engineers around here that Can't mix and try to charge a flat fee per song. That's nuts.

If you can't mix a rap song in a couple of hours, you have no business doing it. Unless your working with Hank Shockley or something.

[ShaneFontane]

Originally Posted by illynoise

It's apparent here that most of you guys must be working with people who HAVE money.

well, i think the idea here is... if you are an engineer... if you have a small business... if you want to make money doign this... then you need to treat it like a business and be a salesman and find business... don't spend time finding people with no money... find time finding people with money... don't let them come to you... you may get less gigs at first but this is how you build a business... anyone can stay busy if they give away all their services, but it takes time for someone to earn a steady check by doing it the right way...

honestly, people tend to sell them selves short... never do more work then what someone can pay for... they want 6 songs - well - **** that... you can only afford 2 songs... whatever it is... you need to SELL SOMEONE... people dont give money away... they need to be sold...

i have more experience in marketing/design and i am building my net label and publishing company as we speak but rule number one is no freebies... f that... i have learned this from my previous life as a designer when i wondered how people made money... ya know how? by finding clients you want to sell to... while people were making a few hundred maybe for a logo - i was making 5k... why? cause i will sell you...

thats the key man... doesn't matter if you live in the drt or the beach... find people with money and get it

[idlabs]

Originally Posted by illynoise

It's apparent here that most of you guys must be working with people who HAVE money. I mix as a part of what I do. So if someone asked me how much for a mix, I would say, how ever long it takes.

If you guys are making 3-500 a mix, your in a spot where the rest of us wish they could be. Good for you. Try to tell the kids I work with 100 a mix, and they look at you like they look at all of the other engineers around here that Can't mix and try to charge a flat fee per song. That's nuts.

If you can't mix a rap song in a couple of hours, you have no business doing it. Unless your working with Hank Shockley or something.

Yeah, I gotta say, the most I ever get from an avg. client is between $75 and $150 per song. I'm sure this has alot to do w/ my lack of salesmanship and the lack of any real music scene where I live (pittsburgh). By which I mean, there isn't alot of venues or other outlets for people to actually make money from the music they do, which in turn gives them less to spend on making it. I always try to feel the situation out first before I give a price: Do they have money? Do they genuinely want the music to sound it's best or do they just want it mixed because that's what people tell them they should do (I see this alot). If they don't understand the process (usually the case w/ my clients) they don't understand how long it can take to do it right. I usually make a distinction as to whether it is a song for a mixtape, a demo, or full-on album, and explain what I'll do differently in each scenario (at least as far as time spent per song).

[matthew.sawicki]

I think I agree that you SHOULD be getting 300-500 a track, but I know for myself I'd prefer to get the gig at 150 or so, and build a reputation off of that.

I don't think that my mixes aren't on par when compared to a handful of songs that are already on the radio, so I feel that saying you CAN'T get a good mix for less 350 or whatever was very fair to those of us who are hungry for work...

[nandoanalog]

Charge 500 thousand dollars for 6 traks. Your reputation will grow up really fast.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by ShaneFontane

well, i think the idea here is... if you are an engineer... if you have a small business... if you want to make money doign this... then you need to treat it like a business and be a salesman and find business... don't spend time finding people with no money... find time finding people with money... don't let them come to you... you may get less gigs at first but this is how you build a business... anyone can stay busy if they give away all their services, but it takes time for someone to earn a steady check by doing it the right way...

honestly, people tend to sell them selves short... never do more work then what someone can pay for... they want 6 songs - well - **** that... you can only afford 2 songs... whatever it is... you need to SELL SOMEONE... people dont give money away... they need to be sold...

i have more experience in marketing/design and i am building my net label and publishing company as we speak but rule number one is no freebies... f that... i have learned this from my previous life as a designer when i wondered how people made money... ya know how? by finding clients you want to sell to... while people were making a few hundred maybe for a logo - i was making 5k... why? cause i will sell you...

thats the key man... doesn't matter if you live in the drt or the beach... find people with money and get it

Shane,
Any tips on finding good paying clients. I live in ATL and I am too having a hard time finding people that will pay.

[ShaneFontane]

Originally Posted by ryst

Shane,
Any tips on finding good paying clients. I live in ATL and I am too having a hard time finding people that will pay.

I believe the best way to find clients is to find local, regional, national or international talent who are currently working consistently or semi-consistently.

Remember a few things... 1) Clients with money are making money; don't seek those with no track history 2) The Internet has broken all geographical barriers; ftp unlocks global opportunities 3) Your competition is not the kid down the street no matter how great he is; your competition is the engineer you envy - where ever he works.

From my personal experience, I have found that you need to learn to say NO more at the beginning of pursuing a career.

In the very beginning, you work with whoever you can to get your skills up, not to build a resume or discography. Once you have built your skills up THEN you begin to say no and raise the $$$ to what competition is charging. This is when you begin to strategically select the work you want to showcase on your discography.

Without sounding like a motivational preacher, you should read or listen to POOR DAD, RICH DAD by Robert Kiyosaki. It's a bit of a detour from specific industry advice, but the book explains financial independence in interesting ways.

Good Luck!

[ryst]

Originally Posted by ShaneFontane

I believe the best way to find clients is to find local, regional, national or international talent who are currently working consistently or semi-consistently.

Remember a few things... 1) Clients with money are making money; don't seek those with no track history 2) The Internet has broken all geographical barriers; ftp unlocks global opportunities 3) Your competition is not the kid down the street no matter how great he is; your competition is the engineer you envy - where ever he works.

From my personal experience, I have found that you need to learn to say NO more at the beginning of pursuing a career.

In the very beginning, you work with whoever you can to get your skills up, not to build a resume or discography. Once you have built your skills up THEN you begin to say no and raise the $$$ to what competition is charging. This is when you begin to strategically select the work you want to showcase on your discography.

Without sounding like a motivational preacher, you should read or listen to POOR DAD, RICH DAD by Robert Kiyosaki. It's a bit of a detour from specific industry advice, but the book explains financial independence in interesting ways.

Good Luck!

Shane,

Thanks. I have read that book. It's good, although i don't agree with everything Robert says.

I am already at the point in my career where I can charge what the competition is charging. It's just that I seem to be on the wrong side of the tracks, so to speak. I have friends who think i am much better than they are, yet they are getting the clients. That's what really bugs me.

As far as global opportunites go, that's what I am looking for more nowadays. Any place else besides myspace to find global clients?

[d.dot]

It depends on the project. For street/back-pack hip-hop stuff, I charge $150/song. Typically there are about 12 tracks in a session and I can mix each song fairly quickly. I have a modest setup at the crib that I work out of when I'm not pushing buttons for the man. My terms are:1] No, you CAN'T sit over my shoulder while I work and no, you can't even come over to the crib. 2] you CAN'T expect a fast turn around. 3] You CAN have up to 2 recalls per song if needed.

Clients send me the session data in the mail, then I email mp3s of the mix for approval. Once they are happy with the mix, I mail them 2 cds of all the mixes including instrumentals, TV and clean versions if requested.

At this price it isn't about getting rich, its about building relationships. Of course if they can pay a little more or the project is more involved then I'll charge more. For me this is a side hustle. You need to determine realisticaly how long each song is going to take to mix and charge accordingly. It might not take 10 hours to mix 1 joint.

[ShaneFontane]

Originally Posted by ryst

Shane,

Thanks. I have read that book. It's good, although i don't agree with everything Robert says.

I am already at the point in my career where I can charge what the competition is charging. It's just that I seem to be on the wrong side of the tracks, so to speak. I have friends who think i am much better than they are, yet they are getting the clients. That's what really bugs me.

As far as global opportunites go, that's what I am looking for more nowadays. Any place else besides myspace to find global clients?

If you wanna go global, maybe all it takes is for you to get familiar with upcoming artists in other countries. Myspace is def a good stomping ground for that. Also, you can go to itunes and change your country location to see whats selling in other countries. You cant buy anything but you can find names and tunes to research.

You can put together a list of clients you want. Then you can drill your way down from there as where they exist. Who they work with. Who represents them. What labels release them. Who publishes them. Etc. This can be considered your "ideal customer" aka your target market. It may help you begin focusing your personal marketing towards those who are in need of your personal skills.

I have also mentioned personal brand earlier. This is HUGE. The clothes you are seen it. The expression you make. The biz cards you have. The site you create. ETC should have a consistent message with a cohesive look and feel. This is a HUGE mistake by most. Even those in biz for a while. BRAND. BRAND. BRAND. This doesn't mean having to spend loads of cash. Make sure you set up a biz entity and stat writing all this crap off! Your clothes for photo shoots. Your new camera to take product and artist shots. Your cool cell phone. Whatever.

You may have read this book, Nichecraft : Using Your Specialness to Focus Your Business, Corner Your Market and Make Customers Seek You Out by.

If not, this is a real good book on getting your marketing skills up.