MBox + Mini-Me...need some help!

[Hed]

What's up guys!
First, I'm sorry for such a "long explaining-post!", but I need some suggestions, here's the deal...
Basically my music is almost "sample-based", I don't record so many live instruments and I use Pro Tools 7.1 through the MBox1:

(usually) Technics1200 - Vestax05 - Shure M44-7 --> Akai S2000 --> Art TPS II Tube Preamp --> Yamaha Mixer MG8/2Fx --> MBox1.

Well I notice, even though using the cleaner preamp preset, I loose on sample clarity and on its body, it seems to become "hollow" compared to the original source and I feel this could be due to MBox converters; that's why I'd upgrade to Apogee Mini-Me, the one with no USB connection (750 bucks...) and connect it directly to the MBox1 via spdif.
Could it be a reasonable solution to my problem??
Or maybe using the yamaha mixer I loose on clarity (but it doesn't seem to me...I also use quality cables too).
Did someone use this combo so that you bypass MBox converters and just use the Apogee ones?!? Any latency prob (I've none with the MBox so I don't think I'd have...).
Would you suggest such upgrade?
So many Q's I know...I'm just pretty hesitant bcus of its price (it's no nuts!), I'm a student and I can't throw money away (like everybody)!

Then, did someone had the chance to record some raw WAV or AIFF sample both through MBox and Mini-Me so that I could catch the difference??
I'm asking this because where I live I can't find a shop in which I could prove its quality.
Thanks in advance!

Hed

[feyshay]

If you need some nice clean preamps, the mini-me is the way to go. Get rid of the ART. You should see an improvement in conversion over the MBox. You will not have additional latency. For Line In, you will disengage the preamp (by turning the knobs all the way counterclockwise). The preamps have plenty of gain. I consider the mini-me to be a very good value, especially with the reduction of price. The limiting and compression is basic but nice at times.
You would clock the MBox to the mini-me. The Mini-me would be converting, and you would not have any degradation of signal in your digital connection between the mini-me and the MBox.
Can't give you waves. I don't have MBox.

[Stitch333]

I agree with shay...apogee make great converters. the mbox is piss poor quality, tho. Do a search on this site for 'apogee' and see what people are saying. I use a pair of old AD500s daily and they kick the crap outta any digi AD short of the HD.
Also, general rule of thumb for recording, make your signal chain as short as possible (unless you have a shitload of worldclass recording gear): 1200 -> phonostage -> apogee would probably yield the best recorded results, then send the samples to the S2k to track with. Then apply FX when mixing. I would sell the art piece as soon as possible and Im sure the yamaha mixer isnt helping either (tho Ive never heard one of those). Good luck!

[khameln]

Yeah, besides the converters I would question having the ART and the Yamaha in the chain before the A/D.

[billgennaro]

i have a mini-me/mbox set-up and i'm very happy with it. one cool trick for monitoring thru your mbox with no latency is to take the headphone out of the mini-me into the line in of the mbox. then use the mix knob on the mbox to adjust monitoring signals. this is, of course, assuming you are using spdif for the actual signal recording.

bill

[treymonfauntre]

Originally Posted by khameln

Yeah, besides the converters I would question having the ART and the Yamaha in the chain before the A/D.

seconded, whats the point?

[jslevin]

Since you're a Mac guy, time to pull out standard recommendation #102 ...

Nothing wrong with the MiniMe as far as I know. But what you really want is a Metric Halo ULN-2.

Not as an interface, that's just a nice bonus. As an ADDA and two-channel preamp.

But you run S/PDIF in both directions between the Mbox and the ULN. You get: vastly better preamps, vastly better AD conversion, and vastly better DA conversion as well -- you can even use its front-panel controls for monitor level as well its headphone amp.

There's nothing better you can do to upgrade an Mbox rig for $900 or so. In fact, there's nothing even close.

JSL

[Hed]

Originally Posted by treymonfauntre

seconded, whats the point?

Thanks a lot!!
...well in my mind I'd use the ART (I had it 4 cheap) just in some case for making maybe kick or drum parts some more dirty...SO do you guys suggest me having first the A/D in every case?? Ever?
But then, if I want to use some other outboard stuff (like the ART or whatelse)?? How could I do this?
Hope you get my point...Hed

[Hed]

Originally Posted by billgennaro

i have a mini-me/mbox set-up and i'm very happy with it. one cool trick for monitoring thru your mbox with no latency is to take the headphone out of the mini-me into the line in of the mbox. then use the mix knob on the mbox to adjust monitoring signals. this is, of course, assuming you are using spdif for the actual signal recording.

bill

Yep, OK!
But even tho I won't connect the headphone out of the mini-me into the line in of the mbox I'll still have monitoring signal from the MBox, right?? I mean connecting the the Mini-Me through SPDIF, switching the clock source in PT (spdif), will I be able to monitor everything "normally" as I'm actually doin'with the MBox??

[Hed]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

Also, general rule of thumb for recording, make your signal chain as short as possible (unless you have a shitload of worldclass recording gear): 1200 -> phonostage -> apogee would probably yield the best recorded results, then send the samples to the S2k to track with. Then apply FX when mixing. I would sell the art piece as soon as possible and Im sure the yamaha mixer isnt helping either (tho Ive never heard one of those). Good luck!

"Send the samples to the S2K to track with"?
But I'd first use S2K because I like the "colour" it gives to the samples...you still wouldn't do this?? I mean you prefer first record samples in PT or whatever else you use, send'em to S2K and then back to PT (because I track-edit in PT)??

[Hed]

Originally Posted by jslevin

Since you're a Mac guy, time to pull out standard recommendation #102 ...

Nothing wrong with the MiniMe as far as I know. But what you really want is a Metric Halo ULN-2.

Not as an interface, that's just a nice bonus. As an ADDA and two-channel preamp.

But you run S/PDIF in both directions between the Mbox and the ULN. You get: vastly better preamps, vastly better AD conversion, and vastly better DA conversion as well -- you can even use its front-panel controls for monitor level as well its headphone amp.

There's nothing better you can do to upgrade an Mbox rig for $900 or so. In fact, there's nothing even close.

JSL

Yeah, I've seen this...way too much expansive for my pocket, but anyway with an MBox (bcus I'm stuck to PT) you'd run it through spdif??

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Hed

"Send the samples to the S2K to track with"?
But I'd first use S2K because I like the "colour" it gives to the samples...you still wouldn't do this?? I mean you prefer first record samples in PT or whatever else you use, send'em to S2K and then back to PT (because I track-edit in PT)??

what you are hearing are the onboard Akai AD/DAs. I have an akai S5k I use for just that purpose when I track to PTs. A quality pair of micpres and the apogee and you'll use the akai for what its for, sampling (or maybe timestretching if you have the FX board).

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Hed

Yeah, I've seen this...way too much expansive for my pocket, but anyway with an MBox (bcus I'm stuck to PT) you'd run it through spdif??

1. Yes
2. "Way too expansive" ... you're talking about a MiniMe, this does a lot more for just a little extra cash. You get this instead of the MiniMe, not in addition.

JSL

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by Hed

Yep, OK!
But even tho I won't connect the headphone out of the mini-me into the line in of the mbox I'll still have monitoring signal from the MBox, right?? I mean connecting the the Mini-Me through SPDIF, switching the clock source in PT (spdif), will I be able to monitor everything "normally" as I'm actually doin'with the MBox??

you'll still have monitoring but you'll get latency (which can drive a man crazy). the mix function on the mbox only gives you no latency if you are inputing signal thru the mbox. by going spdif you are bypassing the mbox's inputs, therefore no way to monitor without latency. be careful about this with whatever you buy. i bought the mini-me mostly because of the headphone output accessability. by using the headphone out i am able to simulate analog inputs on the mbox. what actually gets recorded is thru the spdif.

bill

[Hed]

Originally Posted by billgennaro

you'll still have monitoring but you'll get latency (which can drive a man crazy). the mix function on the mbox only gives you no latency if you are inputing signal thru the mbox. by going spdif you are bypassing the mbox's inputs, therefore no way to monitor without latency. be careful about this with whatever you buy. i bought the mini-me mostly because of the headphone output accessability. by using the headphone out i am able to simulate analog inputs on the mbox. what actually gets recorded is thru the spdif.

bill

Right! Great info!
Btw are you satisfied with this combo?? Would you suggest it?

thanks again!

Hed

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by Hed

Right! Great info!
Btw are you satisfied with this combo?? Would you suggest it?

thanks again!

Hed

i love the combo but i'm not making top 40 records either. for me, it was a huge upgrade to the mbox, especially for the money. i would suggest it highly as it sounds exactly like what you are looking for.

bill

[Hed]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

what you are hearing are the onboard Akai AD/DAs. I have an akai S5k I use for just that purpose when I track to PTs. A quality pair of micpres and the apogee and you'll use the akai for what its for, sampling (or maybe timestretching if you have the FX board).

Ok, I got you and I'm down with you.
But if Akai AD/DA should sound "so cheap", I can't understand why there are plenty producers creating music simply with Akai MPC series, SP1200, Boss SP303, etc. etc.
I mean in that case you wanna "play" your drum with pads and so you need these drum machines...I doubt SP1200 converters give your clarity and I doubt they were meant as "pro-level", on the contrary ya'll gon use it because of its grimy-raw colour, you know what i mean?!
So...I dunno, I feel it's taste...

[Hed]

Originally Posted by billgennaro

i love the combo but i'm not making top 40 records either. for me, it was a huge upgrade to the mbox, especially for the money. i would suggest it highly as it sounds exactly like what you are looking for.

bill

You don't have to, for making soul mu-sick...thanks Bill!

PS: have you italian roots or what?? Gennaro??

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by Hed

You don't have to, for making soul mu-sick...thanks Bill!

PS: have you italian roots or what?? Gennaro??

Italiano baby!

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

apogee make great converters.

I use a pair of old AD500s daily and they kick the crap outta any digi AD short of the HD.

would a mini me beat the sh*t out of a digi 002 or 003 too?
i'm still trying to figure out what the smartest choice would be if i want to upgrade.
i'm on a 001 currently. i was waiting for the 003, but as it seems that's a 002,5 realy.

[Hed]

Originally Posted by billgennaro

Italiano baby!

WORD.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Hed

Ok, I got you and I'm down with you.
But if Akai AD/DA should sound "so cheap", I can't understand why there are plenty producers creating music simply with Akai MPC series, SP1200, Boss SP303, etc. etc.
I mean in that case you wanna "play" your drum with pads and so you need these drum machines...I doubt SP1200 converters give your clarity and I doubt they were meant as "pro-level", on the contrary ya'll gon use it because of its grimy-raw colour, you know what i mean?!
So...I dunno, I feel it's taste...

Never said the akai converters sound cheap, if fact I think they sound great. The MPC DAC has a serious track record of hit records, but if youve ever dumped a beat for a serious record you know that the MPC DACs are the first of many colors and treatments the beat will have. Im more talkin bout the texture that each sampler has on the I/O and about the record chain for digitizing samples: if you are gonna track from the sampler anyways, why use the sampler as an AD/DA on the record chain? Personally, the more direct the better when sampling.
Flavor is cool, like with the SP that 12bit sound is real chunky (and at the time it was released it was absolutely "pro-level"), but would I use it for AD conversion? Naaa...
Would I sample some drum hits to it and track it through apogee converters? Hells yeah...

Originally Posted by beat you down

would a mini me beat the sh*t out of a digi 002 or 003 too?
i'm still trying to figure out what the smartest choice would be if i want to upgrade.
i'm on a 001 currently. i was waiting for the 003, but as it seems that's a 002,5 realy.

Dont know about the mini-me 1st hand (Ive used rosetta, PSX, AD8k and the AD500 are in my traveling rig) but if a pair of 8 year old apogees kicks the digi AD in the jewels, Im positive the mini-me will be a step up. I still use an 001 for pre-production...I just bypass the AD/DA with outboard and clock from an aardsync. Ive read that they did a lot of renovation to the clock and converters on the 003 so Im interested to read 1st hand user feedback (+ now the 003 has bnc WC so even if the clock was still garbage you could sync from an external source) but I still think digi R&D are f**kin crackheads for makin everyone wait for minimal improvements to the 002. Y'all know you can get a used rosetta AD for like 700?

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

Dont know about the mini-me 1st hand (Ive used rosetta, PSX, AD8k and the AD500 are in my traveling rig) but if a pair of 8 year old apogees kicks the digi AD in the jewels, Im positive the mini-me will be a step up. I still use an 001 for pre-production...I just bypass the AD/DA with outboard and clock from an aardsync. Ive read that they did a lot of renovation to the clock and converters on the 003 so Im interested to read 1st hand user feedback (+ now the 003 has bnc WC so even if the clock was still garbage you could sync from an external source) but I still think digi R&D are f**kin crackheads for makin everyone wait for minimal improvements to the 002. Y'all know you can get a used rosetta AD for like 700?

thanks,
i'll also wait for some 003 reviews before i decide, curious about if there's any significant improvements regarding the converters.
i found some rosetta 200's on ebay for like 1500 but then i'd still have to buy at least a pro-fire (and switch to ptools mpowered) plus a decent pre.