Just Got A SE Reflexion Filter And...

[feyshay]

I'm going to go with the Reflexion filter for now, although recording acoustic guitar is not easy with it.
Down the road, I'll be attending further to my room. Best scenario (if not needing to be transportable) would be what Ethan pointed to in another post. Real Traps (microtraps) on stands (2-3 of them, 2x4 in size). That would work quite well for acoustic guitar, cabs, and perhaps vocals.
I'd be curious if you could hang those on the wall and take them off the wall to put them on the stands. They would then be used for mixing and to dampen recordings.

[feyshay]

Oh yeah. I already have the Reflexion filter and it works nicely for vocals.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by chris carter

Curious to know how well it balances on the mic stand. Looks as though it seriously throws off the center of gravity and would require some serious sandbagging.

Yeah, that'd be one of the two issues with the RF.... Not only does it change the center of gravity, but it's pretty heavy too. You really should use a boom stand with a triangular base, otherwise you'll need sandbags or something comparable to hold down the mic stand.

The other thing is that it's hard to read lyrics because of the RF's size.

Like I mentioned earlier, this thing is awesome. I bought it for the wow factor at first, but after getting used to it and fiddling with mic placement a bit I've come to really appreciate what it does. It has far exceeded my expectations. I'm finishing a song with it right now, so maybe I'll post something in the next day or two if anyone is interested.

[defjamm]

^^sure.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Yeah, that'd be one of the two issues with the RF.... Not only does it change the center of gravity, but it's pretty heavy too. You really should use a boom stand with a triangular base, otherwise you'll need sandbags or something comparable to hold down the mic stand.

The other thing is that it's hard to read lyrics because of the RF's size.

Like I mentioned earlier, this thing is awesome. I bought it for the wow factor at first, but after getting used to it and fiddling with mic placement a bit I've come to really appreciate what it does. It has far exceeded my expectations. I'm finishing a song with it right now, so maybe I'll post something in the next day or two if anyone is interested.

Actually SE sells a pretty good mic stand. I have their "ghost" stand. I don't think the weight will be a problem for me.

[beyond]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

OH NOW you've tried the RF?

Sure you have. THat's why you chose to NOT mention it in a thread where someone was loving his, and went on to diss the company instead

How can ANYONE challenge the credibility of a company that allows you to try their products in your own environment for free?



I wonder what acoustics company YOU work for.

Of all the audio topics on this forum, it was a discussion about the RF that got your attention and made you decide to post, BUT

YOU neglected to say you used the products until you were asked.

Boy if only humans had noses that grew longer when they told a lie.

Sigh, I won't even condescend to give an answer. But I can mention that I work in a music store in sweden and I get to try lots of new stuff. I have also written many articles in a swedish music magazine, reviews and columns. I think I know what I'm talking about.

[feyshay]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

The other thing is that it's hard to read lyrics because of the RF's size.

Definitely need a good stand.
Where are you placing your lyric sheet BTW?

[woomanmoomin]

If the Realtraps one is that one that's shaped more like a book, you know... the shape worries me. Does it really dampen the reflections so much that the angular shape of it doesn't mess stuff up? I would be less worried gambling on something that kinda wasn't so damn angular, like the sE RF.

As for even the suggestion that either of them is gonna solve all your vocal-recording problems etc., well that's just a big fat laugh. They would cost a helluva lot more if they did, and there wouldn't be any shortage of takers. Look around you if that's what you actually believe. To me this thing has 'hang a blanket behind the vocalist' virtually written all over it, but there's nothing wrong with that.

It's aimed at the home and project studio market. HENCE THE LOW PRICE.

[Ibvee]

There's allready a thread about the realtraps thing and the SE RF.
I haven't got any experience with any of them however I do know that:
- the SE thing isn't just something, they did true research before they made it
- the testing results show that it's pretty flat,
- It's pretty portable (can't say that of the realtraps thing)

There is allready another thread where someone of SE is defending their product, and explaining some things about the design and stuff, so if you want to know the difference between those 2, check it out.

Besides that I allways find it to be lame to compare your product to the product of another manufacturer on your website. Especially if it's not even sure if it was an honest test, it looks like your affraid that the product won't speak for itself.

[boodah]

Originally Posted by Ibvee

There's allready a thread about the realtraps thing and the SE RF.
I haven't got any experience with any of them however I do know that:
- the SE thing isn't just something, they did true research before they made it
- the testing results show that it's pretty flat,
- It's pretty portable (can't say that of the realtraps thing)

There is allready another thread where someone of SE is defending their product, and explaining some things about the design and stuff, so if you want to know the difference between those 2, check it out.

Besides that I allways find it to be lame to compare your product to the product of another manufacturer on your website. Especially if it's not even sure if it was an honest test, it looks like your affraid that the product won't speak for itself.

I read that thread, including the follow up thread where the SE Dealer asked pertinent questions. I have to agree with you on the comparison test. IMO the real traps "tests" appear to be dubious Anyway. I'm ordering my reflexion in a few minutes. Here's the thread I was referring to: Real Traps Vocal Booth questions

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by feyshay

Definitely need a good stand.
Where are you placing your lyric sheet BTW?

I don't sing or rap....just the producer/engineer. Most of my guys have been holding the lyrics up or to the side. Then I adjust the mic position accordingly. Been thinking about using a clip like the one on pop filters and hanging lyric sheets with that.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by woomanmoomin

As for even the suggestion that either of them is gonna solve all your vocal-recording problems etc., well that's just a big fat laugh. They would cost a helluva lot more if they did, and there wouldn't be any shortage of takers. Look around you if that's what you actually believe. To me this thing has 'hang a blanket behind the vocalist' virtually written all over it, but there's nothing wrong with that.

It's aimed at the home and project studio market. HENCE THE LOW PRICE.

From what I'm seeing, there is no shortage of takers whatsoever. I've always used eq (among other things) to solve my "vocal-recording problems"...that's what the original intention of eq was to start with. The RF makes it a helluva lot easier to get the sound that I'm looking for, though. One of my favorite tried-and-true techniques for recording vox is to hang blankets behind the performer...but that's a big pain in the ass for mobile recording. Blankets behind the vocalist don't provide any isolation, either whereas the RF does. Especially with hiphop, ideal recording spaces can be tough to come by, and many times I find myself recording with the artist standing right behind me. The RF makes it so I don't have to wear headphones to monitor if I don't want to - which is 99% of the time. Also, the RF fits nicely into its box and is quicker and easier to lug around and set up.

FWIW - over the past 15 years or so, there have been many recording related products that were "aimed at the home and project studio market" that have found their way into and become staples in big studios.

[jlotto]

Originally Posted by beyond

Sigh, I won't even condescend to give an answer. But I can mention that I work in a music store in sweden and I get to try lots of new stuff. I have also written many articles in a swedish music magazine, reviews and columns. I think I know what I'm talking about.

magazine reviews etc. u r wrong on this issue. SE Filter is very good.

nothing wrong with saying SE is good and realtraps will be good when it gets released so people can hear it.

Dizzle, Why don't you use a music stand?

Get the heavy duty one that school bands use and not the ones that fold up and fit in trumpet case but only hold 3 sheets of music before they fall.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Dizzle, Why don't you use a music stand?

Get the heavy duty one that school bands use and not the ones that fold up and fit in trumpet case but only hold 3 sheets of music before they fall.

Lol - I still have my old folding one from back in the band class days....

I thought about that, but I think that the size of the RF will make a music stand even more uncomfortable to read from.

[feyshay]

The pop filter is coming over the top of the Reflexion Filter. Looking too far down would be a problem and affect the vocalist. Normally, you would put the lyrics on the other side of the microphone, but that is where the Reflexion Filter is.
I haven't found a good solution.

[doubledecker]

I put lyrics half meter behind and right above it.
No problems yet and it helps with people who tend to sing flat also

[Heezzi]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Yeah, that'd be one of the two issues with the RF.... Not only does it change the center of gravity, but it's pretty heavy too. You really should use a boom stand with a triangular base, otherwise you'll need sandbags or something comparable to hold down the mic stand.

The other thing is that it's hard to read lyrics because of the RF's size.

Like I mentioned earlier, this thing is awesome. I bought it for the wow factor at first, but after getting used to it and fiddling with mic placement a bit I've come to really appreciate what it does. It has far exceeded my expectations. I'm finishing a song with it right now, so maybe I'll post something in the next day or two if anyone is interested.

Try it on a cymbal stand, it works perfect. I paid $42 dollars for mine..

[Methlab]

So if i get one of these SE filters and have an extra boom stand with the tripod bottom I can just put it on that pretty easily and put it up next to the mic stand?

[RedWallStudio]

I have an ancient boom stand on a heavy weighted bass, I just took the boom part off (it was stripped anyhow) and clamped the sE to it. Its got a clamp that will open up to clamp on just about anything up to 1.5 inches in diameter. As long as the base is heavy enough, it will work well with any old mic stand.... just need a HEAVY base.

[FULL-DUPLEX]

I am really interested in testing this filter!

The heads of SE have thrown a hot product on the market... Why can´t bigger companies like Neumann, Shure, Sennheiser do this...?

For instruments will come a smaller, cheaper version!

[darkwater]

Smaller?

I bought the Real Traps PVB. To me, it made more since to have something of substantial size to more isolate the mic.

I haven't tested the RF. It looks cool, I just need more isolation than that. Plus, the PVB is big enough to use for isolating amps or other instruments during a live recording. For me, it was the better choice, I think.

[Jamz0r]

From Beyond

Yeah, well it's just that Real traps as a company has a lot more credibility than SE
Electronics. They're a bit like Behringer with lots of cheap stuff whereas Real traps know what they're talking aobut. Just listen to the demos for your selves! I'd rather spend 300 bucks on the REAL thang.
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Right on. Watch the demo. The RealTraps model is night and day better than the SE version. It might not look as spiffy, but you don't see it while listening.
Demo Video: http://www.realtraps.com/video_pvb.wmv

I like the extra "nasal quality" they throw in there...lol

[neon]

Listen! I really think is just DIRTY in your website to use the "other" product (SE reflexion filter).

Not only they compare it...but yes they add comments like "notice that slight nasal quality"!!

Come on! if your product is so good why you have to compare it and influence the public with opinions againts your competition!!!!


I do not imagine API , A Design etc having a video talking bad about their competition!!

Also that video is not showing anything!!! you dont see the clapping!!
That audio could be manipulated!!

and also definately the contet and the way that video is made really manipulate the audience!!...hear the awesome comment about the Real Trap filter just before their test!!

What happens is that they always look for an opportunity to make money and also may be that SE Reflexion filter may affect the sales of Real Traps products..and if not that is just pure evil ..dirty marketing!

Very scary the way a company can manipulate, influence and can be managed!

I did not hear any of these products..... but really upset me how Real Traps behave !!

[World Of Wiz]

it also looks like they lowered the mic on the SE test.

[darkwater]

Ethan says that the photos shown were not taken during the actual recordings. The position was true during the test.

I think both products are good.

[zak7]

I am not saying which one is better : the SE o the Realtraps ..... have no idea....
But that video of Realtrap is not very nice....may be better....lets us decide.

[FULL-DUPLEX]

Beef in the filter scene...

[Ibvee]

thought about giving such a reaction for some time, don't know why I didn't, but I'm with you.

Besides that, if the test was right, it's kind of dumb: sE electronics tested the coloration of the RF, there was allmost none. That means, that if the test was right the PVB must be the one which colors the sound, and the guy just has a nasal voice (maybe in combination with the mic)...

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Ibvee

the guy just has a nasal voice (maybe in combination with the mic)...

You can hear Doug's natural voice as recorded through the same microphone in the Comb Filter demo video on the RealTraps site. He may not be much of a voice-over talent, but his voice is not nasal.

Also, to be clear, the response I measured for the comparison graphs of sound blocking and coloration are accurate, and I stand behind them.

I'm not sure product comparisons are unfair, but I appreciate that it may seem that way. Many products are too similar to hear much difference. But other things really do vary a lot. For example, we've all seen microphone shoot-outs and loudspeaker comparisons, and those are popular for a good reason - it lets people hear different sounding products without having to actually buy one of everything just to try them all.

--Ethan