2 Questions - Drum Bus & Limiters

[blayz2002]

Ok

1st question is -
For those using samples & drum machines (808's 909's) combined from different sources to make up drums tracks. Who's using a comp or even limiter on the drum bus (whether hardware or software)? Even after you've applied individual compression on kick snare etc? Are you going for extra squash/punch like maybe 1-3 dbs, or just flavour?

Also is ther anything else you insert there like maybe a distortion plug or unit, or eq accross the drum bus? If so what units do you use to get what?

2nd question -
Limiters. Other than using them at the end of the mastering chain, where else can a Limiter help the sound or be used creatively, I've currently got teh Voxengo Elephant (which is very transparent), PSP Vintage warmer (which basically does what it says on the tin) & UAD LA2A (which I can't seem to find a good use for)

[khameln]

As for the first question, I don't normailly put a compressor on the drum bus for hip-hop/r&b, becuase if I've already compressed some of the individual drums, and I'm going to compress the 2-bus a little at the end of the mix, *and* the track is going to be limiited, that's already 3 levels of compression already. I want my drums to *bang*, and that means they need to have transients, so usually compressing them more than is necessary ends up having the opposite effect of what I want and it takes away the dynamics which drive the song.

I can't speak for the elephant, because I've never used it. I like the LA2A because it tends to add a kind of roundness to the bottom of things, which makes it great for kick and bass. I don't like the midrangy, mushy sonic flavor that Vintage Warmer leaves, so I've started using colortone instead, except for occasionally using it to fatten a kick and distort it just slightly. But again just a little, because although I like the compression, I don't like the overall sound of that plagin at all and it tends to make things closed rather than open.

[tommygee]

Just try tons of combinations out, bro - leave the rules behind. Use your ears and select the combinations that SOUNDS good. Maybe YOU are gonna come up with some fresh new trick, that'll impress us all ;-)

Good luck with the tweaking.

[elpillo]

Also remember that compression is not something that you MUST use just because you have them. Sometimes is better to create automation in the tracks instead of adding a compressor through out. Like they say, experiment with and without.
Another thing to remember is that, if you're gonna get your proyect mastered, the ME is gonna use some compression also. When I'm mastering I could use even 3 compressors. This means that some tracks that were compressed individually, are getting compressed in the master buss, then in the master fader and then in the mastering... That could be a lot of compression, don't you think guys?

BTW, check this out.

Hip-hop, Rap & R&B Mastering Special

[blayz2002]

Cool,

I know rock guys tend to compress the drum bus, but that's mostly live drums, so they probably need the sqaush. What about you guys with Fatso's and Distresser's, any of you finding you get extra knock strapping them accoss the drum bus?

Also anyone else with creative stuff you can use Limiters for?

So far I've never used anything on the drum bus, but I do strap something on the mix bus, which is helping getting a fatter mix, and as some of my tracks are comming out a little too clean for my liking in some cases Vintage Warmer is just what the track needs, after applying a clean comp on the mix buss.

[Raggedy]

These days, my favorite thing for the drum bus is Massey's Tape Head plug-in. I use it almost every time. I'll often throw a compressor on there as well, just barely moving the needle. It's more about glue/cohesion than adding "knock". Something with a little edge to it. For the knock, or to calm it down when the need arises, I treat the drums individually. Then, on the mix bus, something cleaner.

[khameln]

Originally Posted by blayz2002

So far I've never used anything on the drum bus, but I do strap something on the mix bus, which is helping getting a fatter mix, and as some of my tracks are comming out a little too clean for my liking in some cases Vintage Warmer is just what the track needs, after applying a clean comp on the mix buss.

If your tracks are coming out too clean I'd look at how you are processing individual tracks, rather than the whole mixbus... I just don't like the flavor that results from putting VW across an entire mix. Try using something like ColorTone on inidividual tracks, and reassess how warmly you are eq'ing. If you need extra grit, try something along the lines of Sonitex, Guitar Rig, or whatever.

[Methlab]

I also say a tape plug can be much better then just slapping a compressor on samples. Rock mixing and rap mixing are 2 different animals. Personally, I don't compress much at all when I mix rap compared to rock.