Anyone want to school me?

[LCD]

I'm really tryna get my mix game together... I'm self taught, really started buckling down on mixing about 6 months ago.... Here's a snip of the latest mix I did... if anyone cares to comment and help a young dude out tryna make it, i'd appreciate it! The main problems I've noticed with this mix are:

1. I need to layer that 808 with a punchier kick
2. Spectrum Analyzer seems to show that the mix (like all my mixes) lack high end... but they sound good to me.

Plz help!!!



***EDIT: I just did a new mix and attached it below... changes made:

1. EQ'd and turned up piano
2. Compressed 808
3. Added a punchier kick with the 808
4. Tweaked vocals some
5. Tried to fatten lead synth....

The main problem I see already is with the 808... after i gave it a lil compression, the higher notes lost their luster, I think I'ma gonna have to separate them and mix them separately. Tell me what y'all think about this mix.

Before and after is there....

------------------------------------------------------

***EDIT #2: MIX 3

Made some changes:

-Compressed vocals a bit more, raised levels slightly
-Added compressed busses of both the 808 and lead
-Turned 808 down some
-Turn up horns in the hook
-EQ'd fill-ins from hook a bit more
-Tweaked kick some

I A/B'd with Jeezy's "I Got Money"... i don't know why I never thought to A/B right there in the session.... but I think it helped me get my bass sounding a lil more tame. Comments & suggestions welcomed...
What u think now?

[A Fak]

I only listened to it on my PC speakers but it sounded pretty good. Yeah you need to tight up the low end up a bit (maybe compress the kick or layer it). The high end is pretty good its missing some sheen but that would be added during mastering (12-16k Shelf).

The only other part that stuck out was your back up vocals (not the ad-libs) in the verses were fighting each other. Maybe take 3-5k down with some low end roll off would help.

Hope that helps man. Keep up the good work.

[auxpot]

Originally Posted by LCD

2. Spectrum Analyzer seems to show that the mix (like all my mixes) lack high end... but they sound good to me.

Plz help!!!

that´s the problem with analyzers..they make you think about things that are already good...
if it sounds good to you, than leave it...

[bknot1]

Im also listening on PC speaker...its sounds good to me from what I can hear.. real nice work...a catchy track i can hear this playin on the radio in the near future...

[LCD]

Originally Posted by A Fak

I only listened to it on my PC speakers but it sounded pretty good. Yeah you need to tight up the low end up a bit (maybe compress the kick or layer it). The high end is pretty good its missing some sheen but that would be added during mastering (12-16k Shelf).

The only other part that stuck out was your back up vocals (not the ad-libs) in the verses were fighting each other. Maybe take 3-5k down with some low end roll off would help.

Hope that helps man. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the tips! I'ma mess with that tonite... but when u say backups, for this particular song I have the leads, then another set of leads about 8 db below, then the back ups or stressors, then my adlibs... i guess ur talking about the stressors, right?


Oh, and auxpot... i'm glad u feel my pain!

[LCD]

Originally Posted by bknot1

Im also listening on PC speaker...its sounds good to me from what I can hear.. real nice work...a catchy track i can hear this playin on the radio in the near future...

Thanks man... that's the plan... bout to do a clean version by the end of the week.

[verb1]

You get love just for shouting out the Bay, but the track is hot. For real. I'd knock it in the car right now. 1 to the Gunshine state.

I listened on good headphones. Here's my observations.

The low end definitely needs tightening. Compress that 808 (ain't much dynamic range in an 808 to lose, so compress away) and add a punchy kick underneath. Just a li'l something to make it thump. Also, try boosting the kick/s in the 1K-1.5K range to add some pop on small speakers.

Some of the instruments other than the main lead synth, like the piano and horns, are getting buried in the mix. They may be simply mixed too low, but I think they're proably fighting for EQ space. Things might need to be panned out more. Try soloing different things together and see what's burying what and do some EQ cutting.

The main lead synth is catchy as hell, so you need to accentuate it more. Remember, find the soul of the track and bring it out. Fatten that bitch up! Reverb, chorus, short delays...try any and all that. You can also try adding a delay bus at 20-25ms to it, pan the bus to one side and the instrument to the other side to spread the sound out. Mess with it and see what sounds good.

The track overall needs to be tightened up and needs some gliss and sheen to it. Are you home mastering it, or are you gonna take it to a pro?

But yeah pimp, the track's hot. And I don't just compliment dudes for the hell of it.

[ozzborn]

sounds good

im on my laptop

this is prefrence
vocals on the verse is a little to loud to me but thats my prefrence, i like verses that are even with music.

the hook is too low.
this is suppose to pop

[Agzilla]

Sounds nice as it is over here.... big and round..in a good way!


Zz.

[LCD]

Originally Posted by J Twin

You get love just for shouting out the Bay, but the track is hot. For real. I'd knock it in the car right now. 1 to the Gunshine state.

I listened on good headphones. Here's my observations.

The low end definitely needs tightening. Compress that 808 (ain't much dynamic range in an 808 to lose, so compress away) and add a punchy kick underneath. Just a li'l something to make it thump. Also, try boosting the kick/s in the 1K-1.5K range to add some pop on small speakers.

Some of the instruments other than the main lead synth, like the piano and horns, are getting buried in the mix. They may be simply mixed too low, but I think they're proably fighting for EQ space. Things might need to be panned out more. Try soloing different things together and see what's burying what and do some EQ cutting.

The main lead synth is catchy as hell, so you need to accentuate it more. Remember, find the soul of the track and bring it out. Fatten that bitch up! Reverb, chorus, short delays...try any and all that. You can also try adding a delay bus at 20-25ms to it, pan the bus to one side and the instrument to the other side to spread the sound out. Mess with it and see what sounds good.

The track overall needs to be tightened up and needs some gliss and sheen to it. Are you home mastering it, or are you gonna take it to a pro?

But yeah pimp, the track's hot. And I don't just compliment dudes for the hell of it.

Thanx for the props man... i work hard at what I do... not too many folks out here producing, spittin and engineering... i do it all (album gonna be called "Self Sufficient")

I went out to the Bay for the first time a few months ago and got shown plenty love so y'all aight wit me!! I'm glad u peeped how hypnotic that lead synth is... I have a slight quarter note delay on it now that made it fatter, but i'ma mess with it some more... All I'm using are factory Pro Tools plugins and they don't have a chorus effect!!

Once I finish this project I'll be gettin it professionally mastered but all the mixing I'm doing at the crib.

Thanx again
-D-

[verb1]

Originally Posted by LCD

All I'm using are factory Pro Tools plugins and they don't have a chorus effect!!

Whaaat? PT doesn't come with a chorus?? Have you thought about getting FXpansion's VST to RTAS wrapper? There's some good, free VST's, including a nice chorus, out there you could use...

Matter of fact, what you on? Mac or PC? PT 6 or 7? I might be able to find you some freeware plugs.

[LCD]

Originally Posted by J Twin

Whaaat? PT doesn't come with a chorus?? Have you thought about getting FXpansion's VST to RTAS wrapper? There's some good, free VST's, including a nice chorus, out there you could use...

Matter of fact, what you on? Mac or PC? PT 6 or 7? I might be able to find you some freeware plugs.

Intel Mac running PT 7.1.1

Plugs are outta control since a lotta shit isn't Universal Binary...

[verb1]

Shit, I'm on a PC.

[lord_bunny]

The low end seems too hyped. The tones are awsome, and the programming is well done... good composition. The problem with the sub over-load is that it tends to make everything else seem too small. It's a fine balance, trying to make those beats sound huge without hitting a tipping point.

The vocals could sound a little less busy by pushing some of them further back into the picture. I could hear some of those other ornamental elements being pushed back as well with some verb. Overall I'm not hearing a mixing picture, everything is quite dry... the lead should remain dry but a short verb on some of the other elements would give it some more space to jump out.

I would also compress the vocal a lot more. With hip hop vocal compression as with poker, there's really no limit to how agressive you can get. This track wants to jump out of my speakers but it isn't.... yet. Very close, very good.

[LCD]

Originally Posted by lord_bunny

The low end seems too hyped. The tones are awsome, and the programming is well done... good composition. The problem with the sub over-load is that it tends to make everything else seem too small. It's a fine balance, trying to make those beats sound huge without hitting a tipping point.

The vocals could sound a little less busy by pushing some of them further back into the picture. I could hear some of those other ornamental elements being pushed back as well with some verb. Overall I'm not hearing a mixing picture, everything is quite dry... the lead should remain dry but a short verb on some of the other elements would give it some more space to jump out.

I would also compress the vocal a lot more. With hip hop vocal compression as with poker, there's really no limit to how agressive you can get. This track wants to jump out of my speakers but it isn't.... yet. Very close, very good.

Thanks for the tips and props!!....

Dumb question #1: How to do make the low-end less hyped. Turn down the 808? I'ma put it like this.... being from the south, my worst fear is having my bass not BANG enough... that will make or break this song.... I think i need to buy a sub to go with these HS80Ms....

[lord_bunny]

"Dumb question #1: How to do make the low-end less hyped. Turn down the 808? I'ma put it like this.... being from the south, my worst fear is having my bass not BANG enough... that will make or break this song.... I think i need to buy a sub to go with these HS80Ms...."

Let me qualify my advise by saying that although I'm a fan of hip-hop I don't do any production work in this area although i'm familiar with making beats etc.
First, mixing without a sub is a good idea most of the time. I go to the sub just to check that nothings getting out of control. So yes, turn down your 808 and other low elements. I'd also look into learning how to use a multi-band compressor or doing some parallel compression on the entire rythem section. To use an overused term, the compression will help "glue" the rythem together. The mastering engineer can play a bit with the low end to make sure it's got enough impact, but if you picture your song visually, the 808 is just way too out front like giant ballon blocking some of the other elements. Trim it back and let the whole track get louder. If your looking for more punch than add, as has been elsewhere suggested, a punchier & quicker kick sound.

Cheers and please post any changes you do!

[(DC)]

If you want the kick to sound real big, I usually find that mixing everything else down in level is more effective then just pushing up the kick to the wall.

Then, just use a L2 or other compressor on the 2 bus for a temporary boost in volume, until you do mastering.

Sounds great tho.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by lord_bunny

The low end seems too hyped. The tones are awsome, and the programming is well done... good composition. The problem with the sub over-load is that it tends to make everything else seem too small. It's a fine balance, trying to make those beats sound huge without hitting a tipping point.

thats kind of what I was thinking. My thoughts (im not a great mixer but just something I would have tried) is cutting out some of the high mids and the highs on that 808 and cutting some lows on the non bass instruments that gives the other instruments more space to breathe and essentially bang out more. also a little reverb something warm on the synths just to give it a lil more punch on the low end. Just food for thought

[LCD]

Good looks to all for the insight... keep it coming! I'll be making some changes this afternoon

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by LCD

1. I need to layer that 808 with a punchier kick
2. Spectrum Analyzer seems to show that the mix (like all my mixes) lack high end...

1. the 808 is boomy, but the presence is not there at all. the lows take all the "energy", but don´t deliver the "punch". you can either try to cut off the lows a little and see if a some eqing can boost some of the "presence". or add an 909 and mix it with the 808.

2. yeah, with that panning lead synth and the bass, the lows/low mids are pretty "covered". do the same as with the 808. cut the lows slighty, maybe open the cut off filter just a bit more. you can also turn down the original sound a bit, duplicate the sound, shift it an octave up, use a high pass filter and mix till the sound is more present in the mids.

hope this helps

[LCD]

Originally Posted by MarkusColeman

1. the 808 is boomy, but the presence is not there at all. the lows take all the "energy", but don´t deliver the "punch". you can either try to cut off the lows a little and see if a some eqing can boost some of the "presence". or add an 909 and mix it with the 808.

2. yeah, with that panning lead synth and the bass, the lows/low mids are pretty "covered". do the same as with the 808. cut the lows slighty, maybe open the cut off filter just a bit more. you can also turn down the original sound a bit, duplicate the sound, shift it an octave up, use a high pass filter and mix till the sound is more present in the mids.

hope this helps

Wow, good ideas! I got a lot on my plate once i get off!

[LCD]

Just added a new mix

[verb1]

Originally Posted by LCD

I think I'ma gonna have to separate them and mix them separately. Tell me what y'all think about this mix.

Listened to the new mix. Sounds better, but the 808 is still dominating the mix, burying the strings, the lower piano keys, and worse - the lead synth.

Good:
The 808 has more pop
the vocals sit better on top of the beat
piano is more audible
mix sounds more glued together
strings more audible

Bad:
808 is still way too up front and I'd like a little more pop
synth sound still buried
strings a little low

Have you tried super compressing the 808 (10:1) via a bus and blending it with the uncompressed 808? Try that, lower the 808 down some, and boost the kick underneath up slightly with an EQ boost in the 1-1.5 KHz range.

Try spreading the piano out more, with the high keys panned left more and the lower keys panned right. Piano might benefit with a 8-10 KHz boost and some reverb.

The strings need some more high end (try cutting the lows on them and boosting the overall level first) and maybe some reverb. I'd mix them hotter, too.

The lead synth is fighting something. Since it's the lead instrument and, along with the 808, the focal point of the track, it needs to stand out. Try mixing it with a super compressed version (maybe with reverb added to the compressed version). And turn it up.

Finally, are you A-B'ing the track against a CD track? You got Young Joc's CD? Take an uncompressed WAV off a CD and load it into PT as a track. A-B that track (dry and with the fader at 0) with yours and compare the low ends.

The track is hot. Spend whatever time you need to get it right and don't get frustrated. You're gonna get it right and learn a lot in the process.

[lord_bunny]

my focus with my suggestions has been on the rhythem and the vocals. a very subtle difference... I guess I want the lead vocal to come up a bit... sounds like you filtered a backing vocal a bit more than the previous which I think is an improvement. i wouldn't be afriad to get a little more drastic with the verb on thoise chanting b.g. vox's, with adding a real punchy kick sample and bringing up the vocal more and again, compressing the hell out of it.

my honest opinion y'all

[LCD]

I really appreciate the feedback fellas... I'm back on it tomorrow... progress

[LCD]

Another update....

[verb1]

Muuuch better. The attack of the kick is coming through, the 808's knocking, and it's finally under control. It's always a good idea to A-B against a well mixed CD track.

Ok, now that you got that bass beast caged, here's some more shit. The lead synth actually is too loud now. It needs to be up front, but it sounds like it's on top of the clap, covering it.

And speaking of the clap, it needs a little bit of EQ'ing. Try adding some 7-10 KHz (scan the range for what sounds good) for brightness and maybe a tiny bit of punch in the 200-400 Hz range. I think the clap would sound nice with a tiny bit of a plate reverb on it too, but that's just my preference.

The piano is again buried. I can barely hear the high notes.

Your vocals need to be a tiny bit hotter and brighter.

You're getting there!

[LCD]

Those piano hi notes are a biiiiiiiiiiiiiitch.... and i thought the lead was a lil too loud myself... i'll be makin more tweaks tomorrow...

Dumb Question #2: How do I make my vocals brighter?

Thanks again!

-LCD-

[verb1]

Originally Posted by LCD

Those piano hi notes are a biiiiiiiiiiiiiitch.... and i thought the lead was a lil too loud myself... i'll be makin more tweaks tomorrow...

Dumb Question #2: How do I make my vocals brighter?

Thanks again!

-LCD-

Pros with decades of experience take entire days to mix a track, so yeah, it's a bitch.

For the piano, try to pan. I think it's fighting with the vocals and synth, so moving it to the side might bring it out. If you can, split the piano track into hi and lo notes, which might make it easier, or you can set up automation to pan the hi notes to the right and lo notes left. Also, you can try cutting the piano in the 300-900 Hz range (muddiness) and/or boosting in the 1-5 KHz and 5-8 KHz ranges (brightness and presence).

You can brighten your vocals by trying several things:
1) Cutting the muddying frequencies - anywhere in the 200-800 Hz range. Too much cut could weaken your voice, however, so be careful.
2) Boosting in the 5-8 KHz range and also in the 8-12 KHz range. Too much boost, though, can add sibilance and hiss, so look out for that.

For the lead synth, turn it down a little and try adding some warmth to it. I think ColorTone makes a freeware plug for PT7 OSX. The free version is so-so, but it might help. Or, add an EQ to the track and scan 300-600 Hz and see what, if anything, sounds good. A slight boost (I'd say 3 db max) in that range might add some warmth and depth.

One last suggestion ('cause these are all just suggestions). Try adding a compressor to the master, compressing the entire track just a little bit. No more than 2:1 (but more like 1.5:1 if your compressor can do that) and taking 3-4 db. It might gel the track some. (Might not, but...)

[LCD]

Originally Posted by J Twin

Pros with decades of experience take entire days to mix a track, so yeah, it's a bitch.

For the piano, try to pan. I think it's fighting with the vocals and synth, so moving it to the side might bring it out. If you can, split the piano track into hi and lo notes, which might make it easier, or you can set up automation to pan the hi notes to the right and lo notes left. Also, you can try cutting the piano in the 300-900 Hz range (muddiness) and/or boosting in the 1-5 KHz and 5-8 KHz ranges (brightness and presence).

You can brighten your vocals by trying several things:
1) Cutting the muddying frequencies - anywhere in the 200-800 Hz range. Too much cut could weaken your voice, however, so be careful.
2) Boosting in the 5-8 KHz range and also in the 8-12 KHz range. Too much boost, though, can add sibilance and hiss, so look out for that.

For the lead synth, turn it down a little and try adding some warmth to it. I think ColorTone makes a freeware plug for PT7 OSX. The free version is so-so, but it might help. Or, add an EQ to the track and scan 300-600 Hz and see what, if anything, sounds good. A slight boost (I'd say 3 db max) in that range might add some warmth and depth.

One last suggestion ('cause these are all just suggestions). Try adding a compressor to the master, compressing the entire track just a little bit. No more than 2:1 (but more like 1.5:1 if your compressor can do that) and taking 3-4 db. It might gel the track some. (Might not, but...)

Thanks again... I'll have to re-track the piano with the hi and low notes split...

I appreciate the assistance!

-LCD-