Avalon 737 vs. other pres

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Not a preamp shootout, but a mix shootout with the 737 vs. whatever you bring to the table.

The whole point I'm making is that the 737 is a very good pre. Not the best by any stretch, but if you're a real good engineer you can make these things sing. That is a fact.

No doubt and without a question... (personally, I'd replace 'sing' with 'sound good')
As I had said before, a SM57 and a 4track cassette can be made to sound good with someone who knows how to rock it. Again tho, I just dont like the 737.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Beat the mixes. ANYONE.

making and mixing records isn't a pie eating contest. I think the mixes sound good. Personally, Im werking on a track with Disco D and MC Messinian that (disclaimer: TO ME) would crush anything Ive heard but I cant post due to contractual obligations. I already posted an accapella, anyway

[con?one]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I think too much credit is being given to the equipment used and not the artist's who performed these songs. You could probably get the same result with a Mackie preamp. Give me Snoop, a SM57 and a Mackie and it's still going to sound like Snoop.

The 737 is not a horrible piece of gear... it is a lackluster preamp combined with a really good EQ, and mediocre compressor. Better results may have been achieved with better gear. Like a more colorful preamp, a faster compressor, more modern converters, etc. But at the end of the day, Snoop will sound like Snoop through whatever you put in front of him..

zaackly

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by khameln

Is it just me or is the kick waaaay out front of the vocals on 'Ballin'? The mid/high of the kick seems to be far more present than the vocals themselves...

It's just you. That's the way BC does his stuff.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

As I had said before, a SM57 and a 4track cassette can be made to sound good with someone who knows how to rock it.

Bad analogy. That's pretty much not true anyway. Sure there have been a couple of things done like that, but they certainly didn't sound good.

Originally Posted by Stitch333

making and mixing records isn't a pie eating contest. I think the mixes sound good. Personally, Im werking on a track with Disco D and MC Messinian that (disclaimer: TO ME) would crush anything Ive heard but I cant post due to contractual obligations. I already posted an accapella, anyway

The only purpose of this thread is to call bullshit on the 737 haters. There are just way too many awesome sounding records done with these things for me to sit back and listen to local dudes talk this nonsense. It's a lot like how you schooled me on the wordclock thing.

Good luck with trying to "crush" those last two I posted. Don't hurt yourself.

[chester]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Bad analogy. That's pretty much not true anyway. Sure there have been a couple of things done like that, but they certainly didn't sound good.



The only purpose of this thread is to call bullshit on the 737 haters. There are just way too many awesome sounding records done with these things for me to sit back and listen to local dudes talk this nonsense. It's a lot like how you schooled me on the wordclock thing.

Good luck with trying to "crush" those last two I posted. Don't hurt yourself.

hey t.dizzle, i like your attitude cause you stand behind what you said! you get my respect for your 600-800 recordings with snoop!!!!! i would be happy done that in my life, really. is respect your ears and work, and i do like your mixes. keep doing your thang, i also dig avalon stuff beside neve and thelikes.

peace

[JohnnyHo]

I have to say, I have recorded A LOT! of vocals, gtrs, etc with the 737 for yrs including Usher's "Confessions" and it works. It was used partly because every studio has at least one, and because they are pretty consistent between units. I usually would disable the compressor and use a different one (or sometimes used both). For me, they work but they seemed to lack character. I'm working on Usher's new record with a different chain and his vocals sound amazing now... wait and you can compare the difference. Now I turn the 737 on every once in a while but mostly for ideas and as a DI. It doesn't have that sound that I am looking for. just my honest opinion. If it was available back then the "Origin" would have been better for me as an all in one.

[EspionageWHW]

Mixes sound excellent but...

Arent there supposed to be vocals on the first 3 links posted? I was hoping to hear the effect of the 737 on the vox

They seem to be just instrumentals.

Vamo Mi Gentes sounds great though.

[World Of Wiz]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Snoop Dogg is one of the hardest vocalists to mix there is. I've recorded between 600-800 songs with him, and nobody knows his voice better than me. His voice almost always sounds like shit, because people don't know how to mix him. He'll tell you that himself.

It's the weed. I wasn't feeling his vox on the no limit album so you may have a point.

Wiz

[nkenya]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

I feel compelled to make this post, as there is a whole lotta hatin' around these parts towards the venerable 737. I happen to think that it is a great piece of gear, and judging by the amount of hit recordings that have been done with these there are many other professionals who feel the same way. There are a lot of beginners here on gearslutz looking for sound advice (pun intended), and misinformation can get in the way of their progress in the art/science of recording.

I'm not saying that these things are the "best" piece of equipment ever or the "be all end all" for mic pres, but in the right hands they are extremely tough to beat.

Here are some links to a few recordings that I've done with the 737 on vox. If you think that you have better recordings done with different pres, then post 'em. Basically, it's a "put your money where your mouth is" type thing.

http://home.comcast.net/~mixxit.tb/BallinMix.mp3

All vox recorded with a C800 -> 737 -> Adat XT20. Mixed on a d8b using the onboard eq and dynamics. The fx/verb are M5K and PCM90. This song is on Snoop's "Paid The Cost..." album. This is unmastered.

http://home.comcast.net/~mixxit.tb/HoldinOnMix.mp3

This is recorded with a C800 -> 737 -> MX2424. Quick 1 hour mix on the d8b using onboard eq and dynamics. The fx/verb are M5K and PCM90. Obviously, this is Nate Dogg and I believe that this particular song was for a movie soundtrack. This is unmastered.

http://home.comcast.net/~mixxit.tb/EveryWhereIGo.mp3

All vox recorded with a C12VR -> 737 -> MX2424. Mixed on the d8b using the onboard dynamics and eq. This is one of my favorite mixes that I ever did, and the beat was created by my favorite producer ever - Swizz. This is the last song on Tha Eastsidaz 2nd album.

http://home.comcast.net/~mixxit.tb/VamoMiGentes.mp3

All vox recorded with a Blue Kiwi -> 737 -> PTHD Accel. Mixed 100% ITB. This song was produced (I made the beat and produced the vocals), recorded, mixed, and mastered by yours truly. Listen to the third verse for some pretty cool fx on the lv. It's all in Spanish, but don't sleep on it cuz it's definitely bangin'. The artist (who will go unnamed) screwed his deal off (and my part of it as well) because of a serious drug problem. Too bad, because he's an amazing vocalist and there is ZERO auto-tune on this. All of the vox tracks are just the one guy.

I have a different song for everyday of the week that I could use for this thread. These are just what I have uploaded right now. Enough to prove my point, though.

Come on 737 haters - show me what you got!

t.dizzle, I have always been impressed by the Dramatics' vocals on "Ballin'"! How did you record them? Was it all together with separate mics or did you track them separately? Any other insight, facts & commentary would be appreciated.

As for the 737, I've never used one, but I do see them all over the place! When I get the opportunity to upgrade, I'll be giving it some serious consideration.[/i]

[TitaniumG]

T. Dizzle this is the problem with most people on the Slutz they talk a good one but can't back it. I am talking from Tony B to the rest of the I don't like this and that MF around here while someone real PRO is making hits from the same so call gear they don't like. T. Dizzle keep making them hits PRO.

[dtrax]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Not a preamp shootout, but a mix shootout with the 737 vs. whatever you bring to the table.

The whole point I'm making is that the 737 is a very good pre. Not the best by any stretch, but if you're a real good engineer you can make these things sing. That is a fact.

Beat the mixes. ANYONE.

Quite a self serving thread, IMNSFHO.

I would not, nor can I imagine anyone else, dignify your proposed 'battle'.

You, son, are an a$$hole.

[Azriel_7]

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Tony you forgot to mention along with the artist the skill level of the engineer. That means a whole lot. That's basically the point I'm making.

I'll pick a 1073 over the 737 every single time, but the 737 can yield stellar results in the hands of a really good engineer. So will any other piece of gear.

There you have the real point.
I think his point of the being better pres but nothing being is wrong with the 737 is very valid.
The 737 has suffured a lot in the last 2 years because it has become somewhat like a piece of Hip Hop jewelry.
Seems this caused people to start talking down on it as if it was just a pretty silver box with pretty flashing lights.

I guess that put us in the current state of people hating it since it's a hip box and rappers without a clue saying I gotta have that Avalon.

The box is as good or bad as it ever was a still just as useful a box.
Whether it your preferred box is your personal call, but it's not because it's a piece of junk.

Internet opinions are cool and can be helpful, but hands on is the reality to be concerned with.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by TitaniumG

T. Dizzle this is the problem with most people on the Slutz they talk a good one but can't back it. I am talking from Tony B to the rest of the I don't like this and that MF around here while someone real PRO is making hits from the same so call gear they don't like. T. Dizzle keep making them hits PRO.

Don't project on me or drag me into this nonsense... I never said it was a horrible piece. What is there to "back up"?

Maybe you should give the artist's and engineer's a little more credit than a mediocre product.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Don't project on me or drag me into this nonsense... I never said it was a horrible piece. What is there to "back up"?

Maybe you should give the artist's and engineer's a little more credit than a mediocre product.

Tony, WTF is goin on in this part of GS? Youre the Moderator, steer this s**t back from the brink....and Im talkin bout ALL the threads recently...WTF?!?!?

[TonyBelmont]

Done.