Mixing Sub-Bass
Old 3rd January 2007
  #1
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Thread Starter
Mixing Sub-Bass

-sighes while holding head massaging temples-

im trying to get the tone to sound "pure"
but i cant get rid of this twangy rumble around 75-90hz
now if i try to cut it around there, i end up losing the (umph) low part of the sub... (which i want to keep..)

just when i think ive gotten rid of it and i try to make any type of gain in the db of the sub-bass it comes back...

an example i would give of perfectly mixed sub-bass is slum village - players
a pure sounding sub with none of that twangyness. just a flat tone at any volume.
but i just cant seem to get the tone sounding pure & clean like that...

anyone been here before?
any tips?

please help.
Old 3rd January 2007
  #2
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

1) try another bass or bass patch. square wave ssound nicer. and layer it. maybe get something more uhhphy like u where saying and mix accordingly.

2) just cut the anoyingg freq and then add a sub harmonic exiter. like waves' RBASS.
Old 4th January 2007
  #3
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I think what you want is a sine wave.
Old 4th January 2007
  #4
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post what you have now and where you want to go (example song).
Old 4th January 2007
  #5
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Reptil's Avatar
that is where most of the umpf is of drums often.
maybe look at the source to clean that up before mixing it to the 2 buss
or use a parametric eq that can cut around there and leave the very low end intact
software eq sometimes messes up the low end, because of artefacts, I noticed in my production, using a software eq that is not so good, makes things worse.

hope that helps a bit.
Old 4th January 2007
  #6
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Thread Starter
Old 4th January 2007
  #7
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Lee702's Avatar
 

What synth are you using?
Old 4th January 2007
  #8
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difficult to tell realy, comparing a soloed subbassline to a mixed and mastered song.
the sv track also rumbles through my woofer, remember the sv song hits different notes, that could be it.
Old 4th January 2007
  #9
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
difficult to tell realy, comparing a soloed subbassline to a mixed and mastered song.
the sv track also rumbles through my woofer, remember the sv song hits different notes, that could be it.
yeah but the sub on the sv track is like... contained.. its not an out of control sub, its sounds like a refined, pure sub tone which i can tseem to achieve.

granted i am a novice at mixing..

but its hard to explain thru text and stuff u know.. lol
guess im on my own here.
Old 4th January 2007
  #10
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verb1's Avatar
 

Sub bass is tricky, and most people have problems getting it to sound great. I'm no expert at this, but here's my general process. The first thing you need is a good sample that won't break apart at different notes. Sub bass is usually a sine wave. Filtering the sound down helps a lot. EQ the sound - the 80-90 Hz range you mentioned is usually the kick drum range, not sub bass, so try boosting down in the 40-60 Hz range instead. Cut unnecessary frequencies. Try cutting off everything higher than 70 and see how it sounds, although that may diminish the sound too much. The last thing I do is compress the bass. A sub bass has very little in the way of dynamic range or "life," yet it takes up a huge amount of space in a mix, so I compress the dogshit out of it to get it nice and even.

Once you have a decent sound, compare it on the same speakers with a good low end record, like Jill Scott's first album.
Old 28th March 2008
  #11
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Twin View Post
Sub bass is tricky, and most people have problems getting it to sound great. I'm no expert at this, but here's my general process. The first thing you need is a good sample that won't break apart at different notes. Sub bass is usually a sine wave. Filtering the sound down helps a lot. EQ the sound - the 80-90 Hz range you mentioned is usually the kick drum range, not sub bass, so try boosting down in the 40-60 Hz range instead. Cut unnecessary frequencies. Try cutting off everything higher than 70 and see how it sounds, although that may diminish the sound too much. The last thing I do is compress the bass. A sub bass has very little in the way of dynamic range or "life," yet it takes up a huge amount of space in a mix, so I compress the dogshit out of it to get it nice and even.

Once you have a decent sound, compare it on the same speakers with a good low end record, like Jill Scott's first album.

I tried this and the result is EXTREME HOT

much thanks
Old 30th March 2008
  #12
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Twin View Post
Sub bass is tricky, and most people have problems getting it to sound great. I'm no expert at this, but here's my general process. The first thing you need is a good sample that won't break apart at different notes. Sub bass is usually a sine wave. Filtering the sound down helps a lot. EQ the sound - the 80-90 Hz range you mentioned is usually the kick drum range, not sub bass, so try boosting down in the 40-60 Hz range instead. Cut unnecessary frequencies. Try cutting off everything higher than 70 and see how it sounds, although that may diminish the sound too much. The last thing I do is compress the bass. A sub bass has very little in the way of dynamic range or "life," yet it takes up a huge amount of space in a mix, so I compress the dogshit out of it to get it nice and even.

Once you have a decent sound, compare it on the same speakers with a good low end record, like Jill Scott's first album.
I remember reading something from Dave P. where he suggested filtering everything below 40hz and above 80hz for the sub.
Old 30th March 2008
  #13
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rickrock305's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
I remember reading something from Dave P. where he suggested filtering everything below 40hz and above 80hz for the sub.



i do this alot with subbass, although not so extreme. maybe filter to 20-30Hz and 100-200Hz depending on other elements of the track. then i like to put on a little harmonic distortion via Maxxbass or Sansamp to make it audible on smaller speakers.
Old 30th March 2008
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
i do this alot with subbass, although not so extreme. maybe filter to 20-30Hz and 100-200Hz depending on other elements of the track. then i like to put on a little harmonic distortion via Maxxbass or Sansamp to make it audible on smaller speakers.
i second this method.
Old 31st March 2008
  #15
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
i do this alot with subbass, although not so extreme. maybe filter to 20-30Hz and 100-200Hz depending on other elements of the track. then i like to put on a little harmonic distortion via Maxxbass or Sansamp to make it audible on smaller speakers.
In a few cases when dealing with samples that already sound good, maxxbass will work even better than actual additive eqing for boosting the perception of low frequencies. Maxxbass and dynamic eqing have been a main part of my mixing regimen for a while now.
Old 31st March 2008
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
...dynamic eqing...
you mean like automated eqing? sweeps etc?
Old 31st March 2008
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morebutter View Post
I think what you want is a sine wave.
+1thumbsup

****
I remember Scott Storch once said about subbasses. You always gotta think about in which part the instruments, in this case the subbass, sounds best. I`m sure you mentioned that you can get a pure thick and fat subbass in some frequency ranges and in others it`s nearly impossible. So if the bass jumps around this means that there will be a lotta work for you

****
As with everything. The more it did sound great (kick/bass) already before the mix the easier and better you can achieve a fat sub.

****
Dave Pensado said that you should hear the kick way down to 40Hz to get a fat hip hop sound. Normally, thats great but in your case I would put it maybe a bit higher. Like 60Hz or still up.

****
Use harmonic distortion like MaxxBass to trick the radio. This way you add higher frequencies which makes the bass more hearable on audio systems which don`t have a sub or can play freqs which are that deep.

****
Last but not least. This one can be very important. Play around with the threshold. Think about compression and what it does. Think about of making the sound of the sub bass staying longer there. Before the next bass not hits. thumbsup
Old 2nd April 2008
  #18
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssl_ambition View Post
****
Last but not least. This one can be very important. Play around with the threshold. Think about compression and what it does. Think about of making the sound of the sub bass staying longer there. Before the next bass not hits. thumbsup
Did you mean to say play around with the release setting? In context to what you are saying, the release setting can be used to add sustain to the bass.
Old 2nd April 2008
  #19
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
you mean like automated eqing? sweeps etc?
Not quite. What I meant was eqs that only kick in when the signal of a certain frequency passes the set threshold. For example, I can set a boost of 3db at 80hz, and set the threshold to -10db. Any part of the audio signal at 80hz which is louder than -10db will get a boost of 3db.
Old 2nd April 2008
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
Not quite. What I meant was eqs that only kick in when the signal of a certain frequency passes the set threshold. For example, I can set a boost of 3db at 80hz, and set the threshold to -10db. Any part of the audio signal at 80hz which is louder than -10db will get a boost of 3db.
ok, thanks.
maybe i'm missing something but could you give an example of when this method might be helpful?
thanks.
Old 3rd April 2008
  #21
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
Did you mean to say play around with the release setting? In context to what you are saying, the release setting can be used to add sustain to the bass.
Yep.... the sub will be more present with adding sustain (cause he was looking for these sine basses). So add until it fits to get a richer "sub bed"

Example (808 stuff dirty south stuff....):

1. Put the compressor on a ratio somewhere between 4 and 5. So it works nicely.
2. Play around with the threshold like -38db.
3. You will notice that the signal gets quieter but also fades out slower now.
4. Play around with the release. Make it fade slowly just until the next bass note hits.
5. Use the make up knob to add volume again.

Your bass is going to be just more present now!
Old 3rd April 2008
  #22
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
ok, thanks.
maybe i'm missing something but could you give an example of when this method might be helpful?
thanks.
You can use dynamic EQ for a lot of different jobs. As a de-esser for vocals i.e.

Dynamic EQ eliminates the shortcomings of static EQ by providing a marriage between dynamics processing and EQ.
In this case everytime the kick hits the bass gets lowered by a certain amount at a certain freq.
Old 3rd April 2008
  #23
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my problem is that when it comes to sofsynths and software compressors, it's hard to find the ones that sound good when dealing with sub range. most of the time I get clicks of the attack when compressing the subbass hard. any solution to that?
Old 3rd April 2008
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssl_ambition View Post
You can use dynamic EQ for a lot of different jobs. As a de-esser for vocals i.e.

Dynamic EQ eliminates the shortcomings of static EQ by providing a marriage between dynamics processing and EQ.
In this case everytime the kick hits the bass gets lowered by a certain amount at a certain freq.
ok thanks... i just ''measure'' the kick then subtract this freq from the bass and other tracks that might conflict. but i try to tackle most of this when i'm aranging.
Old 4th April 2008
  #25
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Reptil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlast View Post
my problem is that when it comes to sofsynths and software compressors, it's hard to find the ones that sound good when dealing with sub range. most of the time I get clicks of the attack when compressing the subbass hard. any solution to that?
use more RMS (overall level) compression than peak limiting
lower both the threshold and ratio
Old 4th April 2008
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
use more RMS (overall level) compression than peak limiting
lower both the threshold and ratio
Thanx, it worked well. It's pretty hard to even out the levels of different notes played and all to sound present in the mix
Old 25th February 2011
  #27
Gear interested
 

sculpture

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssl_ambition View Post
+1thumbsup

****
I remember Scott Storch once said about subbasses. You always gotta think about in which part the instruments, in this case the subbass, sounds best. I`m sure you mentioned that you can get a pure thick and fat subbass in some frequency ranges and in others it`s nearly impossible. So if the bass jumps around this means that there will be a lotta work for you

****
As with everything. The more it did sound great (kick/bass) already before the mix the easier and better you can achieve a fat sub.

****
Dave Pensado said that you should hear the kick way down to 40Hz to get a fat hip hop sound. Normally, thats great but in your case I would put it maybe a bit higher. Like 60Hz or still up.

****
Use harmonic distortion like MaxxBass to trick the radio. This way you add higher frequencies which makes the bass more hearable on audio systems which don`t have a sub or can play freqs which are that deep.

****
Last but not least. This one can be very important. Play around with the threshold. Think about compression and what it does. Think about of making the sound of the sub bass staying longer there. Before the next bass not hits. thumbsup
this seems like as good a spot as any to say this.... i too have difficulty achieving a satisfactory sub bass sound. one thing i have definitely figured out is that it helps to first make your patch, and then record notes and put the best sounding sample in a sampler. for some reason, probably either masking or phasing, the attack portion of sub bass sound inconsistent. problem solved. also, it helps with the intonation of the sub bass, which can also be chaotic. i've also discovered that it is good to experiment with different tools than just vco, analog synths, subtractive synthesis........ try using a modeling synth, such as sculpture.
Old 25th February 2011
  #28
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SoundEng1's Avatar
 

great info here guys thumbsup
Old 25th February 2011
  #29
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You can hear all of a sub bass even after you roll off an 18db/octave High Pass at 70hz/80hz. Sub bass below that will affect your kik/bass relationship in a negative way given it's your average non-808 hip hop kik which i roll off at 40hz/60hz.

As far as making a hole with the sub bass without killing the power of the bass try setting up the eq in low mid range with a q of about 2, minus a few db, and sweep from 200hz-900hz until it feels right.
Old 25th February 2011
  #30
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neeko's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
i do this alot with subbass, although not so extreme. maybe filter to 20-30Hz and 100-200Hz depending on other elements of the track. then i like to put on a little harmonic distortion via Maxxbass or Sansamp to make it audible on smaller speakers.
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