SSL DUENDE & WAVES SSL DEATHMATCH ROUND #1

[warhead]

The guys next door have been running Duende on a G5 / PT HD system with no issues at 1024 samples. The only time they ever had issues was at the beginning if they tried to switch buffer sizes mid-session the Duende was not lined up anymore as it set itself to match the latency when the session first booted up.

Seems many PT HD problems are related to MAC users with the wacky on board firewire card issue...but I'm not a MAC guy it just seems to come up in a fair amount of Duende / HD threads.

War

[gfx]

It all depends which AMD 7131 PCI bridge controller they have.....

Certain versions = trouble others not..

gfx

FXpansion Audio UK Ltd

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by gfx

It all depends which AMD 7131 PCI bridge controller they have.....

Certain versions = trouble others not..

Interesting info. Perhaps you could elaborate on known good/bad versions of these controllers?

[vudoo]

i will be running it on a G4 Dual 1Ghz, with ProTools HD2....anyone ??

[Ace'Lo]

Yea and I'm running and HD2 Accel on a Mac G5 1.8 single processor...anyone?

[gfx]

This problem also effected UAD on certain models..

They very helpfully a while ago produced a list of mac models and pci types.

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/March/index5.html

There it is , now from my own experiance I have a dual G5 2.5 which has 2 seperate PCI busses.

The slot in which uad suggest you place their card is the slot people with 2nd firewire cards place their firewire cards.

This effectively puts Duende or Powercores for that matter onto there own PCI bus seperate from the rest of the ravages of the pci bus.

Using this setup I can stream audio across the firewire bus use Duende and have internal audio streaming from sample libraries without any problems or glitches.

Until I put it onto its own bus , I would get issues with drops outs/crackling with duende. When the system started to get loaded up.

The problem gets worse with a FW audio card thrown into the mix because all the standard apple FW buses are shared bandwidth. If you are using FW audio interfaces as well I wouldnt reccomend trying to stream audio of a disk on the bus along side it.

Afaik this issue doesnt affect the current crop of intel based macs , just the G5's

Hope this helps.

gfx

FXpansion Audio UK Ltd.

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by gfx

They very helpfully a while ago produced a list of mac models and pci types.

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/March/index5.html

There it is , now from my own experiance I have a dual G5 2.5 which has 2 seperate PCI busses.

The slot in which uad suggest you place their card is the slot people with 2nd firewire cards place their firewire cards.

This effectively puts Duende or Powercores for that matter onto there own PCI bus seperate from the rest of the ravages of the pci bus.

Using this setup I can stream audio across the firewire bus use Duende and have internal audio streaming from sample libraries without any problems or glitches.

Until I put it onto its own bus , I would get issues with drops outs/crackling with duende. When the system started to get loaded up.

The problem gets worse with a FW audio card thrown into the mix because all the standard apple FW buses are shared bandwidth. If you are using FW audio interfaces as well I wouldnt reccomend trying to stream audio of a disk on the bus along side it.

Afaik this issue doesnt affect the current crop of intel based macs , just the G5's

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the post, but (unfortunately) the link is a bit out of date.

I've got a DP 2.7 PPC LC (which if you have the DP 2.5 as opposed to DC 2.5) was the replacement for your computer!

So, would you assume this computer has 2 pci busses?

Also, you mention slot order determining which pci bus... Could you break that down for us?

Thanks in advance.

[Ambroise]

Hi, I briefly tried the Duende with PT HD 7.1 and found it quite unusable. The delay introduced by the wrapped plug is about 20ms something i think (around 4000 samples). So you have to use the long delay compensation setting and can't insert another plug in on that track otherwise it will exceed the value of the compensation (i.e. 4095).
I'm not talking about the sound of the Duende, just the very big latency that makes it quite unsuable in a mix on PT HD.

Hope that might help

[Ace'Lo]

Originally Posted by Ambroise

Hi, I briefly tried the Duende with PT HD 7.1 and found it quite unusable. The delay introduced by the wrapped plug is about 20ms something i think (around 4000 samples). So you have to use the long delay compensation setting and can't insert another plug in on that track otherwise it will exceed the value of the compensation (i.e. 4095).
I'm not talking about the sound of the Duende, just the very big latency that makes it quite unsuable in a mix on PT HD.

Hope that might help

Man you are really pushing me to the Waves SSL plugs with that post

[Azriel_7]

Originally Posted by Ace'Lo

Man you are really pushing me to the Waves SSL plugs with that post

Why not download the Waves SSl demo and see how it performs and sounds.
I am currently trying the demo and it's making me want the Liquid Mix.
Not because the SSL4000 sounds or performs in a bad way or anything.
It's mainly because I still don't like the way the HUI and MCU map to the SSL plug and adjusting plugs with a mouse it something I just can't deal with.
Since the Liquid is a controller it offers better intergration for how it maps to the plugs.

[Ace'Lo]

Originally Posted by Azriel_7

Why not download the Waves SSl demo and see how it performs and sounds.
I am currently trying the demo and it's making me want the Liquid Mix.
Not because the SSL4000 sounds or performs in a bad way or anything.
It's mainly because I still don't like the way the HUI and MCU map to the SSL plug and adjusting plugs with a mouse it something I just can't deal with.
Since the Liquid is a controller it offers better intergration for how it maps to the plugs.

But what plugs come with the Liquid Mix?

[Azriel_7]

Originally Posted by Ace'Lo

But what plugs come with the Liquid Mix?

List Of Emulation

[DWINC]

[quote= So, the SSL Duende was already at a disadvantage, [/QUOTE]

Well, I like you honesty and being prepared to see for yourself that Duende kicks major ass hahaha.
I will get mine this month, VERY curious. I worked with the real deal one time in a big ass studio, and I hope the Sound On Sound is right about the similarities

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by Ambroise

Hi, I briefly tried the Duende with PT HD 7.1 and found it quite unusable. The delay introduced by the wrapped plug is about 20ms something i think (around 4000 samples). So you have to use the long delay compensation setting and can't insert another plug in on that track otherwise it will exceed the value of the compensation (i.e. 4095).
I'm not talking about the sound of the Duende, just the very big latency that makes it quite unsuable in a mix on PT HD.

Hope that might help

Well, from what I understand is that you can avoid the latency by shutting the Duende off when you are recording, and when you are mixing you put it on. You won´t have it then. It is mentioned in the SOS of August this year by Paul White. He suggested that SSL should overthink the possibility for a bypass with an update for the Duende, which sounds excellent to me.
But....no experience over here...I will get my SSL Duende later this month. Only thing I know is that Apple still have problems with the firewire stuf (surprise surprise) and that is one of the reason I got rid of all my MLAN stuff. I still have a LACIE fw harddisk, but I will only turn that on when I am done with my projects for making my backups.

[raal]

Originally Posted by DWINC

I still have a LACIE fw harddisk, but I will only turn that on when I am done with my projects for making my backups.

i have a coupla LACIEs. use them for recording to and backing up. not one problem (crossing fingers).

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by raal

i have a coupla LACIEs. use them for recording to and backing up. not one problem (crossing fingers).

You are LUCKY hahahaha. When I used the MLAN stuff by Yamaha, it made crash MLAN every time. But...well...we know the story of MLAN right...

But the MAC still has serious problems with the Firewire as you audio geeks already know. Apple was expected to release new drivers December, but I haven´t seen them. I hope they will deal with it soon. Every time when you see a FW device in the SOS you see the guys pointing out the latency at the MAC´s

[skygod]

Originally Posted by stevens119

I'm not advocating using someone else presets for use in mixes....but....The Chis Lord Alge presets for the Waves SSL4000 are a cool starting point for getting instruments to sound right. You don't have to use the exact presets...you should tweak them by all means....It's just cool to put the CLA preset on your bass and listen to how he would do it...you may do it a little different...but a little help never hurt anybody.

Chris' work and techniques entails a lot more than anything SSL other than it is his primary comfortable platform to work on. It could have been a MIDAS XL4 or a Neve 8088 but he chose the SSL format and stuck with it over the years. See this for example: http://www.vintageking.com/site/files/lord_alge.htm

Don't get glued and fixated on the SSL stuff alone. Its a combination of a lot of stuff, and that's where years of engineering/mixing experience, quirks, likes/dislikes, and what works and what doesn't plays out ...

~skygod~

[andrewj]

At all an SSL console is no bad choice to stuck with! I also would love to!

[Ace'Lo]

So does anyone actually have the Duende working perfectly with Protools HD? If so, what did you have to do to get it to work? Or was it a smooth process?

[Azriel_7]

Ace'Lo, I still think you should download the SSL-4000 demo.
I have gotten more comfortable with the Controller mapping so my only real complain has basically been diluted to a very insignificant level.
The E-Channel really works well and since it's RTAS (or TDM) no Wrapper of FW involved.
If you at least try it out that would mean you would have a reference to use if you get to try out a Duende.
I'm pretty much sold on the SSL-4000.

Also Warhead did post that the guys next door to him were running a problem free Duende on a G5 HD system, so it is doable.

[TonyBelmont]

New plugin for Duende announced today:

http://solidstatelogic.com/news/drumstrip_news.html

[Ace'Lo]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

New plugin for Duende announced today:

http://solidstatelogic.com/news/drumstrip_news.html

U told me some new shit was coming!!

[ten]

Fuggin nice, cant wait to try that out...any news on pricing?

ten

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by ten

Fuggin nice, cant wait to try that out...any news on pricing?

ten

Yeah was thinking the same thing. Just read all about it on the SSL website, I hope they can keep the price lower than 150 bucks. Too bad we will have to wait till March, I will get my Duende probably next week. Can't wait

[aghora]

Originally Posted by stevens119

I'm not advocating using someone else presets for use in mixes....but....The Chis Lord Alge presets for the Waves SSL4000 are a cool starting point for getting instruments to sound right. You don't have to use the exact presets...you should tweak them by all means....It's just cool to put the CLA preset on your bass and listen to how he would do it...you may do it a little different...but a little help never hurt anybody.

Yeah its a good reference point. Some are very cool and Some of the presets are so so though.

[aghora]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I don't think that it has the Waves "beat" at all... it's a totally different sound and both of them have their uses. When you want the extra drive & knock (harshness if pushed) you go for the Waves. When you want the smoothness, etc... go for the Duende. But, the Duende buss compressor is just better. Everyone should have both.

I agree its a very different sound. Probably both are good for different scenarios. For heavy music the waves SSL seems to work very very well.