drums in a small room

[matt thomas]

hi tchad, great to have you here

My question(s) pertain to your philosophy of recording drums in a small room. I too have been heading this way, albeit with quite a dry sound, so I am interested in your take on a few issues.

I have been told that you like to use "the smallest possible room" (quote some people that have worked with you, yes I am from new zealand), is this true? is there no limit (besides the size of the kit i suppose!)?

do you use just standard rectangular rooms, standing waves and all? or do you like to dampen, or diffuse, the sound in the room? what about bass trapping?

I am finding my preference for ribbons for overheads is not mixing well with my small room tangent, as they pick up too much room sound. Do you use a typical pair of cardoid condensers for OHs? and are they positioned unusually close to the cymbals to minimise room sound or?

thanks alot
I am looking forward to hearing the new crowded house!
narco

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by narco

hi tchad, great to have you here

My question(s) pertain to your philosophy of recording drums in a small room. I too have been heading this way, albeit with quite a dry sound, so I am interested in your take on a few issues.

I have been told that you like to use "the smallest possible room" (quote some people that have worked with you, yes I am from new zealand), is this true? is there no limit (besides the size of the kit i suppose!)?

do you use just standard rectangular rooms, standing waves and all? or do you like to dampen, or diffuse, the sound in the room? what about bass trapping?

I am finding my preference for ribbons for overheads is not mixing well with my small room tangent, as they pick up too much room sound. Do you use a typical pair of cardoid condensers for OHs? and are they positioned unusually close to the cymbals to minimise room sound or?

thanks alot
I am looking forward to hearing the new crowded house!
narco

Yes I like small, dead rooms. If it's small and live you may have to put some absorbers in there. Never had a problem with bass trapping.
I use a Neuman KU100 binaural head for the OHs.
In the dead rooms I've used there is no room sound to speak of but I do close mic everything.
The Sound Factory studio B vocal booth I used for years was just big enough for a medium size kit but the player needed to be quite agile to get out.
Does that help??

[gem]

hi tchad,
which fx do you use on the kit when tracked in small room
but want some bigger drum-room sound in mix?
which fx boxes have worked for you in the past?

ever tried reamping in bigger place later?

another question:
how much lowend do you mostly filter out(or if any) of the overheads?

thank you

cem

[redddog]

Wow. That is one wierd looking mic.

[matt thomas]

yes thanks, it seems quite a dead room is the key, which is what I've been doing anyway, damn I'll have to think of another question now

thanks
narco

[Local 47]

Hi (T)chad,

How do you start setting up drums (and I'm not talking about mics or preamps and stuff)? I mean, how early in the recording phase do you start bringing your own drums and cymbals?
Let me give you a typical example: generally when I record a drummer, he/she starts by bringing in the loudest snare, biggest kick and heaviest (loudest) cymbals: more is more and louder is louder. Next comes the drums setup; hihat right above the snare, cymbals horizontal to the ground (to be able to hit them harder ), ride two inches above the toms. You get the picture: smeared out cymbals all over the place.
That's why I'm wondering how soon you would react to this kind of issues.
PS: is that why I see Pete Thomas on records you do so often?
Thanks a lot, D

[pedrohead]

Originally Posted by gem

hi tchad,
which fx do you use on the kit when tracked in small room
but want some bigger drum-room sound in mix?
which fx boxes have worked for you in the past?

ever tried reamping in bigger place later?

another question:
how much lowend do you mostly filter out(or if any) of the overheads?

thank you

cem

yeah, i'd really like some insight into this, as i'm in the same situation.

(Tchad Blake gives renewed hope to millions recording in their garages- Jules )

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by Local 47

Hi (T)chad,

How do you start setting up drums (and I'm not talking about mics or preamps and stuff)? I mean, how early in the recording phase do you start bringing your own drums and cymbals?
Let me give you a typical example: generally when I record a drummer, he/she starts by bringing in the loudest snare, biggest kick and heaviest (loudest) cymbals: more is more and louder is louder. Next comes the drums setup; hihat right above the snare, cymbals horizontal to the ground (to be able to hit them harder ), ride two inches above the toms. You get the picture: smeared out cymbals all over the place.
That's why I'm wondering how soon you would react to this kind of issues.
PS: is that why I see Pete Thomas on records you do so often?
Thanks a lot, D

Live kits don't work for me without a lot of alterations unless you record them in a fair size room as if live.
Live is great but it's another world.
Studio recording is a fantasy where if you want the band to sound live you have to fool the listener and that can be done in strange ways. Like big sounds from a small kit.
I've always had lousy luck with big loud kits hit hard so if I see one come in I'll listen to it but my gear is already coming out.
If the player is unwilling to change you have to be honest with them and give your reasons why it just won't sound good no matter what you do unless you can make some adjustments.
Thicker heads, quieter cymbals and hats, or a different kit entirely.
As far as placement, any drummer thats any good should be able to move drums around slightly to accomodate the sound, like hats for instance.
I remember days like you describe, don't miss 'em. So much easier with a great drummer who knows how to hit.

[Mike Caffrey]

What makes cymbals quieter, thickness, size or both?

Do you ever manipulate them physically, like taping them or anything?

[supafuzz]

Hi Tchad.
I recently started using my original sans-amp for bass and it sounds amazing.

I was wondering if you had any particular dip switch settings you like to use for kick drums and any other off the wall uses and recommendations. I was lucky enough to receive 3 as a gift some years ago...
thanks

harley
zeroville recording

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

What makes cymbals quieter, thickness, size or both?

Do you ever manipulate them physically, like taping them or anything?

There's alot to cymbals. Diameter, weight and size of bell all contibute to loudness. Generally light to medium weight are lower in level and have more tone with less stick. They're also quicker to react than big heavy cymbals but also quicker to decay. I have some hats that are sheet cut (as opposed to cast metal) that are weird but sound great to me. Very low level.
Yes, gaffer tape has been on many a kit I've recorded, cymbals included. Too many ways of taping and treating cymbals to mention. EXPERIMENT!!!!

[Mike Caffrey]

I do! I was wondering if I was the only one with the tape on the cymbals.

I work pretty much weekly with a drummer who has some custom cymbals that started as Zildjian thinnes cymbals, but then he had them cut or lathed even thinner. They bend with finger pressure. Unfortuately for me, even though the cymbals reside a my place, they in hiis off limits collection. I was curious what other people do. I'm going to look in to sheet cut.

[Loudmac]

Tchad ,

Sounds like we drive down the same road when it comes to cymbals.
I love those cheap stamped cymbals...wuhan...etc...
they are quiet and with a short decay they dont eat up all the compression...the seceret is out and I may lose my Paiste deal
Thanks for all your advice this last month!
cheers,
Brian MacLeod

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by Loudmac

Tchad ,

Sounds like we drive down the same road when it comes to cymbals.
I love those cheap stamped cymbals...wuhan...etc...
they are quiet and with a short decay they dont eat up all the compression...the seceret is out and I may lose my Paiste deal
Thanks for all your advice this last month!
cheers,
Brian MacLeod

Hey Brian, cool stuff.

[AnAverageJoe]

Hey Tchad, Thanks for being here... I would like to hear your thoughts on Recording Drums in a room thats 6x6, Should I go A bit bigger? What Size do you recommend at the least?

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by AnAverageJoe

Hey Tchad, Thank for being here... I would like to hear your thoughts on Recording Drums in a room thats 6x6, Should I go A bit bigger? What Size do you recommend at the least?

Is it a relatively dead room? Deader the better. I know someone doing their drums in a vocal booth that's 5'x6' and they sound great. Shouldn't be a problem.

[yumdrum]

Originally Posted by tchad blake

Is it a relatively dead room? Deader the better. I know someone doing their drums in a vocal booth that's 5'x6' and they sound great. Shouldn't be a problem.

Tchad, this is good to hear as I just purchased a Wenger booth not much bigger than this for that very reason.
What are the best tom mics for close micing in this situation? I currently have the 421's and e604's. Will these be good in the small area as well?
Thanks much. Dave

[yumdrum]

Originally Posted by tchad blake

Is it a relatively dead room? Deader the better. I know someone doing their drums in a vocal booth that's 5'x6' and they sound great. Shouldn't be a problem.

Tchad, thanks for your insight. I just purchased a Wenger booth for this very reason.
Any mics you prefer over others on the toms for close micing in this small of an area?

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by yumdrum

Tchad, this is good to hear as I just purchased a Wenger booth not much bigger than this for that very reason.
What are the best tom mics for close micing in this situation? I currently have the 421's and e604's. Will these be good in the small area as well?
Thanks much. Dave

I never use anything but 421s on toms. Should be fine.