Drum Magic

[cush]

Hey Tchad -

You probably won't remember this, but you engineered some tracks of my power pop band, The Wigs, for Howard Benson at the Sound Factory that ended up in a film called "My Chauffeur." Some of the other tracks were engineered by someone else on the same API board and I remember that your dums really popped and had a silky quality to them. I know this was 20 years ago, but do you remember if you had any tricks you were using to get that punch and clarity? I thnk that's really one of your trademarks.


Jim Cushinery

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by cush

Hey Tchad -

You probably won't remember this, but you engineered some tracks of my power pop band, The Wigs, for Howard Benson at the Sound Factory that ended up in a film called "My Chauffeur." Some of the other tracks were engineered by someone else on the same API board and I remember that your dums really popped and had a silky quality to them. I know this was 20 years ago, but do you remember if you had any tricks you were using to get that punch and clarity? I thnk that's really one of your trademarks.


Jim Cushinery

Hi Jim, it's a little cloudy but rings a bell.
I've always used additive compression which I think is what you're hearing. Additive meaning I split the original signal off, compress it....lots, and add it back in. A little goes a long way. OH's, SN, mono kit mic.......etc.
Sometimes phase is a problem. Usually not but if it is...swing with it.

[Prickstein]

Hey Tchad, on your "additive" compression track, is it set with a fast attack or slow?

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by Prickstein

Hey Tchad, on your "additive" compression track, is it set with a fast attack or slow?

Whatever sounds right for that track. More often, medium to slow attack, fast release.

[especht]

Thanks for doing this, Tchad. Do you often use buss compression on the drums and bass? If so, do you go for a longer pump (maybe 300-500 ms release) or something that recovers fully before the next hit?

Also, do you typically use sidechain compression on the bass (keyed off the kick)?

And finally, is using two kits often a part of your arsenal? Is it usually the same part played twice or something completely different on each kit?

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by especht

Thanks for doing this, Tchad. Do you often use buss compression on the drums and bass? If so, do you go for a longer pump (maybe 300-500 ms release) or something that recovers fully before the next hit?

Also, do you typically use sidechain compression on the bass (keyed off the kick)?

And finally, is using two kits often a part of your arsenal? Is it usually the same part played twice or something completely different on each kit?

In the old days I rarely had a seperate bus for drums. Recently I've started doing it though as my tastes change and I learn more.
Attack/release times vary depending on the track. Twidle those knobs until it sounds good.
Unusual to have two kits.

[Jako Bee]

Originally Posted by tchad blake

Hi Jim, it's a little cloudy but rings a bell.
I've always used additive compression which I think is what you're hearing. Additive meaning I split the original signal off, compress it....lots, and add it back in. A little goes a long way. OH's, SN, mono kit mic.......etc.
Sometimes phase is a problem. Usually not but if it is...swing with it.

Hey T. Split the original signal off? - What do you mean by this?

[cush]

Originally Posted by tchad blake

Hi Jim, it's a little cloudy but rings a bell.

We had been working with Bill Jackson. This was back in '86. Bill had to leave town and I think the manager at the Sound Factory (Phil?) brought you in for us. Bill's drums had a great mid thwack, but yours had a silky quality that I've heard on all your other records. Ears and fingers, I guess. I suppose the API consoles didn't hurt, either.

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by Jako Bee

Hey T. Split the original signal off? - What do you mean by this?

Mult your original OH's, compress the mult, add in lightly to your orig. OH's

[Jako Bee]

Originally Posted by tchad blake

Mult your original OH's, compress the mult, add in lightly to your orig. OH's

Thx alot sir. But MULT? What is that about? Sry for these dumb questions.

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by Jako Bee

Thx alot sir. But MULT? What is that about? Sry for these dumb questions.

I just mean if you have the OH's on 2 channels, create another two channels with the same audio. Identical stereo pairs (four channels). Compress one pair leaving the original alone, add to taste.

[Jako Bee]

Ahh yes f'course - thx alot mate ;-)

[Lardroom]

Thanks for coming here and letting us pick your brain, Tchad. Your name belongs on the short list of great latter-day producers, along side Fridmann and Lanois. Got a few questions for you that I don't think have been touched on in other threads, and if they have, a thousand pardons...

As far as mic'ing the kit goes, you mentioned that the binaural head is always your overhead. Where do you place it? Does it vary with room, setup, drummer, etc.,? Aside from the head, do you have a default mic setup that you always use, or does it again vary from situation to situation? I was curious about other stereo mic'ing techniques that you're a fan of. Jecklin disk? Blumlein? Lastly, can you pile up tracks recorded binaurally on a song without running into massive phasing issues?

Warmest regards and thanks again,

-Tom

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by The Red Door

Thanks for coming here and letting us pick your brain, Tchad. Your name belongs on the short list of great latter-day producers, along side Fridmann and Lanois. Got a few questions for you that I don't think have been touched on in other threads, and if they have, a thousand pardons...

As far as mic'ing the kit goes, you mentioned that the binaural head is always your overhead. Where do you place it? Does it vary with room, setup, drummer, etc.,? Aside from the head, do you have a default mic setup that you always use, or does it again vary from situation to situation? I was curious about other stereo mic'ing techniques that you're a fan of. Jecklin disk? Blumlein? Lastly, can you pile up tracks recorded binaurally on a song without running into massive phasing issues?

Warmest regards and thanks again,

-Tom

The binaural head goes just above the rack toms facing the player.
I'm not sure where it is but I listed my standard set up elsewhere. Too late to type it all again, and yes, recording music always varies.
I haven't experimented with many other stereo techniques but have checked them out on record and wasn't impressed enough to pursue them.
Binaural does every thing I want it to.
There's no problem phase wise with multiple bino's if its all different stuff.
Adding a lot to a bino track, especially from non bino sources destroys the bino field. You can't hear my OH's as bino, but it just has a cool sound I enjoy.

[Lardroom]

Tchad,

Found the thread where you listed your setup. Thanks again!

-Tom

[gurubuzz]

Hi Tchad,

So great that you are here sharing your experience.

How do I avoid the cymbals turning into horrible white noise?

I mean, sometimes when I want the cymbals to cut through the mix , I think, when I turn up the overheads , its like the the peaks are poking over the whole mix and after mastering the cymbals sound trashy.

Also if you bus the drums do you insert a comp on the bus?

Cheeers Buzz..

[Jako Bee]

Originally Posted by The Red Door

Tchad,

Found the thread where you listed your setup. Thanks again!

-Tom

where? - looking for it myself :-)

[demel]

Originally Posted by tchad blake

I just mean if you have the OH's on 2 channels, create another two channels with the same audio. Identical stereo pairs (four channels). Compress one pair leaving the original alone, add to taste.

Hi Tchad,

What are you listening for as you adjust the attack and release on the squished channels?

Thanks!

[gurubuzz]

Originally Posted by gurubuzz

Hi Tchad,

So great that you are here sharing your experience.

How do I avoid the cymbals turning into horrible white noise?

I mean, sometimes when I want the cymbals to cut through the mix , I think, when I turn up the overheads , its like the the peaks are poking over the whole mix and after mastering the cymbals sound trashy.

Also if you bus the drums do you insert a comp on the bus?

Cheeers Buzz..

I'm piecing this together from reading other threads...

So...

I mult the oh's and compress the mult and mix it in to taste, leaving the original un touched.

I would then use a mono kit mic to beef up the whole kit then ride the compressed mult fader for cutting through busy sections? ? ?

If Ive got it wrong please enlighten me.

This is a great thread... I have never had a mentor or master to teach me anything... I have learned everything myself from reading and experience/trial and error..

So thanks again Tchad, even if you don't have time to answer directly I am finding missing jigsaw puzzle pieces in all your threads.

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by gurubuzz

Hi Tchad,

So great that you are here sharing your experience.

How do I avoid the cymbals turning into horrible white noise?

I mean, sometimes when I want the cymbals to cut through the mix , I think, when I turn up the overheads , its like the the peaks are poking over the whole mix and after mastering the cymbals sound trashy.

Also if you bus the drums do you insert a comp on the bus?

Cheeers Buzz..

Only recently, ITB, have I started having a kit bus w/compressor. Usually a C4 and an SSL 2 buss comp. Sometimes the ML4000.
Cymbals always need to be riden in the mix. You have to work those faders just like a vocal.
They shouldn't sound like noise, maybe it's the instrument. Change cymbals.

[tchadb]

Originally Posted by demel

Hi Tchad,

What are you listening for as you adjust the attack and release on the squished channels?

Thanks!

Excitement.

[gurubuzz]

Thanks heaps Tchad,

I tried the additive compression on a mix I am working on at the moment.
I now "get" the reverb substitute wow I thought to myself..."I must turn down the reverb a bit on the drums" but I didn't have any.

Thanks again

Oh yeah just for fun I flipped the phase on the comped mult...it goes against logic but it did something....