How about this new VH song?

[Ckevperry]

You mentioned mixing a new tune for them in another thread....any details you can share? I would asume Sammy is singin on this tune?

[jwag]

CKev,

I've heard it and indeed Sammy is back on the mic. The beginning definitely sounds like a departure soundwise from old with the beginning guitar riff. Not really nu-metal sounding, just very "mainstream"?

-Jake

[shipshape]

OK another fun story. The Van Halen song took 4 days to mix....a song with Drums ,Bass , a double tracked Gtr and a vocal.
The first day was ok......was not a difficult mix to do (or so I thought)....Eddie and Alex came in and said that the drums sucked....oh good start thought I(not). As it turns out when Eddie heard the song put together, he liked the feel and sound of the drums from the demo better but it was a demo and nothing was tracked to it!!! So Eddie and his engineer go back to Eddie's house and spend all night trying to get the drums from the demo to match the newly recorded Gtrs Bass and Vocals.
So we put it all together and see what we got...(why me again god ?) and we hobble along trying to make it work. There is a lot more but thats all I can say for now !!!!!
Eddie and Alex are great .

[d audio]

Long time lurker HUGE VH fan and this is coming with the greatest respect to Mr Shipley (because it really isn't his fault) but IMHO Eddies tone has gone waaaaay downhill since he started using those *&%$##$#@ 5150 amps. I realize an artist has to grow and all that but please, someone talk him into breaking out his old gear...please. Those first three albums had guitar tone from beyond Mars....did he use the speaker simulator in the early years? To me, the current tone on this new song just doesn't breath-it's too direct...

[shipshape]

Yeah he used the simulator since '85 but I agree about his tone to a degree....but really you can't tell Eddie anything . He likes his tone the way it is and his studio has some odd acoustic problems so I don't know if that affects what he hears in there.
We did go into it somewhat , but he is a creature of habit and he lives in his own world . Totally.

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by shipshape
Yeah he used the simulator since '85

Since '85... anyone else thinking what i'm thinking? yep, thought so...

[DClarkson2004]

Since '85... anyone else thinking what i'm thinking? yep, thought so...

[bassmac]

Pre '85 - Marshalls, Dave.

Post '85 - Amp sims, Sammy.

[shipshape]

Hahahaha.....that's funny , wouldn't you know it

[jpaudio]

All joking aside, i think it had to do with Eddie dumping his Marshalls around the same time. I'm no full-fledged VH historian, but i seem to recall he was using a variety of rack units from '85ish til his 5150 debuted in the early '90s. Different pres, FX units, etc. So the Palmer (or Sammy) may not be the main reason for his change in tone.

I remember a live pic from the 1984 world tour that showed a steamer trunk filled with about a dozen Marshall Plexi heads. Ridiculous.

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by shipshape
Yeah he used the simulator since '85 but I agree about his tone to a degree...

Thanks for clearing that up.

IMHO, he never equalled the guitar tone on the first record.

AND

'85 was the end of tone for Mr. EVH...

I'm also not shocked to hear he is NOT 'open to negotiation' (with regards to his guitar sound)... Pity.

[d audio]

Originally posted by blackcatdigi
Thanks for clearing that up.

IMHO, he never equalled the guitar tone on the first record.

Got that right...I thought I read once where Templeman used an 1176 on his guitar to help shape that "classic" tone along with his Marshalls.
As a guitar player, I'll never forget the first time I heard that first record-I had never heard a guitar tone like that-ever. The tone that launched a million guitar players...

[Ckevperry]

Originally posted by blackcatdigi
Thanks for clearing that up.

IMHO, he never equalled the guitar tone on the first record.

My favorite guitar tone of all time. If I had been the engineer sitting listening to that tone with those licks at that period of time....I feel certain I would have wet myself.

[flexoffset]

....the Brown sound?

[enharmonic]

Originally posted by flexoffset
....the Brown sound?

That's how Eddie defined the tone of his amp. I believe he was laying on a variac in those days too.

I guess it's like anything else. Us audio types are always trying different pre's, mic's, etc. It stands to reason that Eddie would want to do the same with his guitar rig.

Too bad he dosen't have a Wizard head and an Orange cab like me. He would have mind blowing tone again.

[flexoffset]

His hearing can't be all that great anymore.
I read an article yearrrrs ago where the esteemed Mr. Roth had said he gritted his teeth any time he ventured to Eddie's side of the stage because he had it so loud over there.

[jpaudio]

I've heard the same about EVH's hearing, and his stubborness. You can't fault him for trying new things, especially with the late 80's boom of preamps like the CAE, Bogner, Soldano, etc. The Bogner Fish preamp had a "Brown" channel, which EVH may have used at some point IIRC. I know he had a CAE in the very early 90s, pre-5150 head. A good way to view EVH's tonal changes is to take a look at his current amp of choice... it bares little resemblance to a Marshall plexi in design and tone, that's for damn sure. But it was still a quality amp, used by many, especially in metal/thrash/hardcore. Then the 5150 mk2 came out, which was not nearly as good of an amp. Go figure.

[bassmac]

AFAIK: EVH did use the Palmer in the early days for his live rig.

HeÕd run his 100w Marshall Super-Lead (aka: Plexi) into the Palmer > into a power amp > into Marshall cabinets. (along with other fx too) The power amps allowed him keep the stage volume under control, while the Palmer allowed him to crank the Plexi up into the sweet spot.

PlexiÕs on 10 can hurt you.

[juniorhifikit]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I remember reading somehting where EV's guitar tech said that the old "brown sound" Marshall was dying and couldn't be revived to it's previous glory, which is why he went searching for new amps. Every attempt they made to fix the old amp changed the sound to where EV didn't like it any more.

Funny, no matter what garbage he's playing through, it still sounds like him!

[Ckevperry]

Originally posted by juniorhifikit
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I remember reading somehting where EV's guitar tech said that the old "brown sound" Marshall was dying and couldn't be revived to it's previous glory, which is why he went searching for new amps. Every attempt they made to fix the old amp changed the sound to where EV didn't like it any more.

Funny, no matter what garbage he's playing through, it still sounds like him!

Yeah...OU812 was the last album he used the famous plexi on. But by then it was on its last leg....and you can hear it on that album. Not so great!

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by Ckevperry
Yeah...OU812 was the last album he used the famous plexi on. But by then it was on its last leg....and you can hear it on that album. Not so great!

The album 5150 came after that one, right? cause i'll bet my left nut there's no plexi on that one, it's almost a transistorized tone...

[zboy2854]

Actually, 5150 was the first VH album with Sammy, and preceded OU812.

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by zboy2854
Actually, 5150 was the first VH album with Sammy, and preceded OU812.

Thanks for clearing that up zboy, it's been so long since i've dug out any of them to be honest. But his tone on 5150 is a far cry even from the previous album 1984, which leads me to believe something went wrong in there (besides Sammy).

[flexoffset]

Here's a couple of interesting articles I dug up that will hopefully jive with what Mr. Shipley is saying. I KNOW he's right, but I'm not sure if the articles are accurate. If they are, it could provide some more insight...who knows.

I'd be curious to see if the articles are true or just some blowhard that thinks he knows it all and won't be uncovered.....
From what i read, though, it seems that that articles are genuine. See what you think ...

The first link here ... I can't really tell if it's a store or if it's someone who thinks they know something.
http://www.legendarytones.com/edward_van_halen.htm

http://mr5150.vhvault.com/evh-brown-sound.html

http://www.plexipalace.com/eddie_vanhalen.html