Cork, Ireland, Drum Question:)

[jamesosullivan1]

Hi Kevin,
James here from Cork in Ireland, in a small town in Inniscarra. I don't know if you get down to Cork alot or not but it is the real capital - not dublin - so you must have been:)

I only found gearslutz about 1 month ago now and I have a few questions about recording my band here in Ireland. Basically I'm looking for a set of overhead mics that I can use on my drumkit and also maybe use on a few other things in our band, like say upright piano, and then use one of them as the vocal mic. There are not a whole lot of large drum shops and studio's in the southern tip of ireland. I was hoping you might be able to give me some of the better tips on how to get great drum sounds on say Larry Mullens kit on "unforgettable fire"?

I know you need the basics so here is what I have Kevin.

First thing I suppose is the kit itself. This is a large sounding DW collectors. 24"x18" kick 13"x11" rack, 16"x16" floor tom and Black beauty 14"x6 1/2" snare. All have new skins but I am experimenting here aswell with the skins. I have 4 cymbals, all large with a 22" paragon ride being the biggest and large 18inch crash Z cymbal that I would ride on and get a thrashy sound alot. The kit sounds really great and full with a big wet kinda sound to it. I want to capture this sound which isnt far from the sound of Larry Mullen Jnr Kit!!! I will try leaving the hoops on the toms with holes cut in the toms (on the bottom side obviously) if necessary to get that big retro sound. basically its a natural real sound I want to capture up front and not have to replace much or anything like that. Any tips on how to compress it when i buss it to stereo would be cool - or any room reverbs I could use maybe?

I know the room matters too - I have got a room that is all wood with carpetting floors. 14 feet by 12 feet with a 10 foot ceiling so it sounds pretty cool (Not unreal). not the best room in the world but not the worst!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. I have a D112 for the kick and a SM57 for the beater side. (maybe might get the subkick)
2. I have a MD421 for both the rack and floor toms.
3. I have a SM57 for the snare (Still looking for a bottom snare mic, any suggestions really appreciated)
4. Now for the overheads I am thinking the following (because they could be used on vocal and piano??):

Pair Audio Technica AT4047?
Pair Neumann AKG 414?

All the mics will be plugged into a CLM dynamics DB8000 preamp with 8 channels which sounds nice kinda like the Focusrite 410 preamp but with 8 channels. I have the adat card for it so I have 16 inputs if I need it on my digi 002 rack system. I have all the waves plugins so any suggestions on how to compress the drums or any techniques there would be just unreal Kevin.

Thanks for your time reading this Kevin and best of luck with everything you work on in the future.

Thanks a million,
James

[Kevin Killen]

James,

Yes I have made it to Cork many times, mostly Kinsale, great place and excellent food and GUINNESS...... now I am missing the old sod !!

It sounds like you have a really nice setup, good drum kit , what is the recording space like? Lively or dead? Maybe remove that carpeting!

To get that Larry sound we actually moved his kit from the studio into the reception area of Windmill Lane after all the day staff went home. It had a low ceiling but 4 foot thick walls and ceramic tiles on the floor. We also placed some mics in the stairwell and compressed those mics through a pair of 1176's , very aggressively.

In your case i would start by always having freash heads on when you record, coated ambassadors are my favorite. I would tune the drums to allow the drums to ring a little especially the snare. I would avoid as much damping as possible. (see the answer to the Commitments thread)

In terms of mic choices, I would be careful with the beater side 57, just make sure that you are not getting any phase cancellation. For the under snare I would try another 57. Good choices for the toms. To get mic's that serve as overheads and vocal and Piano, the 414's are good but tend to be a little bright.

Also the AT 4040 , 4050 & 4060 are great all round mics. You may also check out
the SE line of products. Also the Royer 122's are awesome.

I do not know those CLM preamp but your chain seems fairly clean. In terms of compression, in the virtual world you just have to experiment a lot between threshold and ratio but at least you can tailor it to the performance and modify throughout the song. Finally remember to use the delay compensation as it really does make a difference to overall sonic clarity.

Best of luck with it.

Kevin

[jamesosullivan1]

Hi Kevin,
Thanks a million for your time in answering my questions. I spent new years of this year down in Kinsale just round the corner from the old head of kinsale - nice spot alright. Plenty of Guinness that night:)

My room is about 15feet by 17feet with a 9 foot pointed ceiling. I usually dont dampen my drums to much at all so they sound full and natural. The chain is fairly clean alright as you say - just basically the CLM 8 channel pre into my 002 rack. I have a bunch of waves plugins for compression and also have waves dverb and the waves room plugins to help build more of a dimension to the drums. Will I buss the drums into a waves compression or stay very light on compression for the close mics? I don't have the budget really for the 1176 yet!!! I could get the plugins but I heard they are not up to much - maybe they are?

My room is between lively and dead I guess but I could move the drums to a room in my house. I have a hallway - tiled floor and thick walls. But it would only be about 10 feet long and about 10 feet wide. I guess Il just have to experiment and enjoy it:)

Thanks also Kevin for the advice on the mics. I'm guessing you would go for the 414's over the AT4047's then?

I guess I cant blame the gear anymore whatever I end up getting!!! :)

Thanks a million Bud.

Keep up the good work.

James

[Kevin Killen]

James,

To me the hardware version of the 1176 is better, I would experiment with those overheads, so much depends on what and how you play and how that interacts with the room.

You could try bussing the drums into the compressor chain, that will give you a little more control over dry versus processed.... its a personal choice.

If you have a livlier space in the house try by placing a mic or two in there or a speaker that you can rebroadcast elements of the performance into that space to get a different vibe. You can then offset the waveform to compensate for any latency.

Good luck and have fun

[jamesosullivan1]

Cheers Kevin, thanks for the encouragement. I'll give it a blast.

Thanks again for your time.

James