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#31
17th July 2010
Old 17th July 2010
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Eric Valentines Underhead issues

Bump for Eric!

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17th July 2010
Old 17th July 2010
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Eric Valentines Underhead issues

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19th July 2010
Old 19th July 2010
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19th July 2010
Old 19th July 2010
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More info

Hey all, here are some more responses to questions in this thread.

Worlez
I've been using the Songs for the Deaf drum sounds as a benchmark for a while now, and I was hoping that I could ask you specifically about the kick drum sound you got on that record? The way the bottom end feels like it's rooted to the floor is really cool - how did you approach this?


I'm guessing we're talking about the drum sound that represents the majority of the more aggressive rock songs on the record (No One Knows, Go With The Flow, Millionaire..... etc.) All those songs were recorded in the booth shown in the pictures in this thread. On most of the songs and specifically 'No One Knows', The kick drum is a Sonor 24" 9 ply birch phonic plus. I was using a combination of a Kick mic (most likely a 47fet or a PL20) recorded on one track and the NS10 speaker trick on another track. I do the NS10 speaker trick a little differently than most. I actually setup 2 of them, one still mounted in the speaker box and one ns10 woofer with no speaker box. In my experience this dual NS10 speaker trick is the easiest fastest way to get some really perfect punchy low end for your kick drum. The phasing has to be right between the 2 speakers one way really sucks and the other immediately sounds great. I usually high pass the actual kick mic, use it for the attack and only use the low end from the pair of NS10s.

Also, the guitar sound on those rough mixes is very cool - would you be able to share some of your methods for how this was captured?

I apologize I am not sure what rough mixes you are referring to.

Matt Grabe
I read in another thread that you like to use a coated batter head on the kick drum. I'd imagine this largely contributes to that sound over a clear head, correct? Do you have a certain type of pedal beater that you like for rock projects?


I do prefer coated batter heads for kick drums. I find them to have a pleasant airy overtone to them. Clear heads to my ears sound to much like plastic. I mostly like to use all felt beaters. They sound the most balanced to me. Occasionally, the DW style beater with the felt strip on one side has worked when the drummer isn't playing the kick drum hard enough and a more aggressive attack is needed. using the plastic side of the beater has always generated a weird disembodied clicking sound and has never really worked for me.

Winey
I had heard that you used a sdc close to the bass drum beater with another mic on the resonant side.


I do like to use a mic on the batter side of the kick drum. I usually call it the "K/S" mic, because it also ends up getting a good amount of bottom snr sound as well. the SDC being referred to was probably a Sony ECM-50 lapel mic. I first starting doing this with a U87 sitting under the snare but pointing right at the kick batter head in cardioid. This U87 version I originally heard about from Jacquire King because he had seen David Bianco using it. It was one of those techniques that became a permanent fixture for me after trying it one time. I have experimented with a bunch of different mics for it ECM-50, PZM, CMV3, Beyer 160, Royer 121, senn MD409. They all work in their own way. The 87 version probably still gets used the most. Lately I have been enjoying the version where the mic is up higher and gets more of the top side of the snare drum (like the setup shown in this thread).

I think you consistently get a great and very unique bass drum sound and was a little curious if the U67 on bass drum is a new thing for you?

The U67 thing on the kick drum is a bit newer for me. I have a pair of U67s that are a more recent part of my mic collection. They were modified by Toby Foster to extend the low frequency response. Toby says the that those mics have a HP filter that is active all the time intended to account for proximity effect. He simply removes that from the circuit. I've found that it can work really great for a very natural open drum sound that has little or no gating. All the bleed (cymbals, room ambience etc) that gets into the U67 when it sits a few feet in front of the kick drum sounds good because the U67 is such an open natural full range mic. The song 'By The Sword' on the Slash solo record is a good example of that.

Also is a full resonant head your preference still?

I do prefer a resonant head on kick drums. My solution for the bouncy feel is to only put a very small hole (1" - 2" in diameter) in the resonant head. a small hole off to one side is enough to let the air from inside the drum to have somewhere to go and dramatically reduce the bouncy feel. the small hole doesn't seem to ruin the sound of the resonant head and offers some additional flexibility in micing.

Thanks for the interest and questions, hope the info is useful

Eric Valentine
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20th July 2010
Old 20th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ev33 View Post
Also, the guitar sound on those rough mixes is very cool - would you be able to share some of your methods for how this was captured?

I apologize I am not sure what rough mixes you are referring to.
Thanks for the info Eric, really interesting. I'm starting a record next week whose drummer takes a lot of inspiration from the playing on that QOTSA record, so it's great to have some background on how you captured it.

The rough mixes I am referring to are some mp3's that were floating around the internet of the tracking session of Songs For The Deaf, Do It Again, and another unknown demo (sounds like could be an early version of Little Sister?). The guitars sound absolutely fantastic on that album, great work!

Thanks for your time!

Al

PS - have you ever met a manager/A&R named Rose Noone?
#36
20th July 2010
Old 20th July 2010
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Great. Thanks much for the info Eric!
Love to hear your thoughts on Guitar\Bass tracking setups and amp (general guitar stuff) preferences as well. Maybe some other time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ev33 View Post
Hey all, here are some more responses to questions in this thread.[I]
Winey
I had heard that you used a sdc close to the bass drum beater with another mic on the resonant side.


I first starting doing this with a U87 sitting under the snare but pointing right at the kick batter head in cardioid. This U87 version I originally heard about from Jacquire King because he had seen David Bianco using it. It was one of those techniques that became a permanent fixture for me after trying it one time.

Eric Valentine
Strangely enough. I'm actually the guy who turned David Bianco on to the u87 kick beater\undersnare thing while coproducing a record together at Coast Recorders around 92. I forced Dave against his will to setup that mic because it was part of my standard drum setup. He said that it was a phase nightmare and was a total waste of a track! haha. When we mixed he decided he loved it and has used it from that point on. We called it the ELO mic because it sounded a bit like ELO or Sgt Pepper Reprise drum sound. Small world. Makes me wonder if Jacquire was working in the B room at Coast during that time. Crazy.

All the best!
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20th July 2010
Old 20th July 2010
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full circle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winey View Post
Great. Thanks much for the info Eric!
Love to hear your thoughts on Guitar\Bass tracking setups and amp (general guitar stuff) preferences as well. Maybe some other time.



Strangely enough. I'm actually the guy who turned David Bianco on to the u87 kick beater\undersnare thing while coproducing a record together at Coast Recorders around 92. I forced Dave against his will to setup that mic because it was part of my standard drum setup. He said that it was a phase nightmare and was a total waste of a track! haha. When we mixed he decided he loved it and has used it from that point on. We called it the ELO mic because it sounded a bit like ELO or Sgt Pepper Reprise drum sound. Small world. Makes me wonder if Jacquire was working in the B room at Coast during that time. Crazy.

All the best!
That is really funny. There certainly was something that caught your ear in my bass drum recordings..... your own mic'ing technique!! I heard about it from Jacquire in 96' when he was an assistant at Coast while I was tracking 3EB. Well, I'm happy it found its way to me, cause I've been really happy with the results from it. I'll try to think of some other mic'ing tricks to put up here.

EV
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#38
21st July 2010
Old 21st July 2010
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haha

hey eric,
in the slash SOS interview you mentioned something about acoustic transparency with the nearfields on your custom console that you'd come up with.
Are you able to discuss it as yet? It seems like a good idea.
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21st July 2010
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Cool to hear you get so much use out of a little drum booth. Is there anything more going on with acoustic treatment than what we see in the pics (tube traps, stage curtains,ect)?

Did you track taking back sunday drums in the big room? It's so punchy and in your face but in a smooth non painful type way. Any advice as to how to acheive such good attack while keeping it from getting harsh and clicky?
#40
21st July 2010
Old 21st July 2010
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Hi Eric. any info on that amazing looking new console of your's we saw in the SOS article?
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#41
22nd July 2010
Old 22nd July 2010
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sorry still no mp3.
stupid telecommunications company and stupid australia post...still no internet :(

hey eric.. you got any tricks to control the cymbals in the mono room mic. I got it sounding great! and your right it such an important part of the sound but the only way I could make it all work was to play my cymbals REALLY quietly.. is that the trick?!
just like all good drum sounds (ie. andy johns/John Bonham technique)
#42
25th July 2010
Old 25th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ev33 View Post
That is really funny. There certainly was something that caught your ear in my bass drum recordings..... your own mic'ing technique!! I heard about it from Jacquire in 96' when he was an assistant at Coast while I was tracking 3EB. Well, I'm happy it found its way to me, cause I've been really happy with the results from it. I'll try to think of some other mic'ing tricks to put up here.

EV
Truly strange coincidence! Jacquire possibly assisted those sessions when Andy Taub wasn't there. That's nuts...

Alright one more quick question. I notice on the slash sessions you're using C12a's for the tom\overs. Was curious if you just wanted a bit more sheen to these mics? Are they still in Fig 8 or cardioid? Looks like they are placed in a slightly more traditional Glyn Johns style position rather than right above the toms. Hard to see in the small pic though. Any specific reason for the move from the Coles? Thanks again for being here Eric. Nice to talk shop with someone I have huge respect for.
#43
25th July 2010
Old 25th July 2010
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Some more info


Tandem5
in the slash SOS interview you mentioned something about acoustic transparency with the nearfields on your custom console that you'd come up with. Are you able to discuss it as yet?


The patent application should be filed sometime in the next couple of weeks. Then I can talk about it in more specific detail. I am very excited about it, the results have been great. Its a problem that has bothered me for a long time.

hey eric.. you got any tricks to control the cymbals in the mono room mic. I got it sounding great! and your right it such an important part of the sound but the only way I could make it all work was to play my cymbals REALLY quietly.. is that the trick?!
just like all good drum sounds (ie. andy johns/John Bonham technique)


Playing the cymbals soft is definitely the key. Its easiest for me to use these techniques when I'm playing the drums myself. Since I pretty much only play in the studio at this point I've trained myself to play cymbals in a very controlled way. I also occasionally will use strategic baffles placed right in the line of sight between the mono room mic and the offending cymbal. it can give you a couple extra db of attenuation on the cymbal.

planet red
Did you track taking back sunday drums in the big room? It's so punchy and in your face but in a smooth non painful type way. Any advice as to how to acheive such good attack while keeping it from getting harsh and clicky?


TBS drums were recorded in the big sound room at my studio. I did try an odd experiment on that one. I wanted to accentuate the room ambiance on the kick drum. We setup a temporary wall that had a cut out for the kick drum. Some things about were cool but ultimately didn't seem worth the hassle of setting up the wall. I haven't done again since. I think the quality you're hearing in the attack of the drums is most likely the analog tape. That entire record was tracked to Pro Tools and transferred to analog tape for mixing. I find that when drums come off of tape I can compress more aggressively without having the drums sound overly clicky and pinched sounding.

RoundBadge
any info on that amazing looking new console of your's we saw in the SOS article?


Yes there is lots of info. It seems a place called Gearslutz is unquestionably the best place to start sharing some of the cool details. This console project started over 4 years ago. I decided to do this after really accepting how dissatisfied I was with the Neve 88R and realizing I had access to an inconceivably brilliant audio electronic designer. A gentlemen named Larry Jasper who had worked for Quad Eight and GML (in addition to doing many many other custom designs for boutique products out there), had been helping maintain and modify some of my gear. The guy was just never wrong and knew everything about every single piece of gear I owned. I just decided **** It lets try to make the ultimate no compromises best sounding analog console ever built. We spent the next 4+ years endeavoring to do that. We started completely from scratch, designing our own amplifier block (our version of a API 2520 or Neve BA183). Larry came up with a Pure Class A single ended amplifier block that has the efficiency of a Class A push pull design. That has allowed us to incorporate more features without giving up sonics. The sonic character is reminiscent of a Class A EMI TGI console.

There are a few things that are unique about it. The first thing is the Equalizer. I decided that if I am going to have 60 of one particular EQ sitting in front of me it better the best choice at least 90% of the time. The equalizer we came up with I believe is one the most flexible and musical EQs I have ever used. It has features that have never existed in an analog equalizer before, yet is still all Class A single ended gain stages through out. In its basic form it is a 4 band parametric EQ. Here are some of the unique features. all of the 4 bands are individually bypass-able, so bands that aren't being used don't add any additional amplifier noise. Instead of having a button for either peak or shelf type EQ there is a potentiometer. This makes it possible to blend between a peak or shelf shape. All 4 bands have this feature. The Q control has a wide range of adjustment approximately .3 - 10. The Q control is active all the time weather you are using a peak shape or a shelf shape. This makes it possible to achieve pretty much any curve or slope you could possibly want. It has a notch mode that allows you to completely cancel a particular frequency. It also has an "All Pass" mode that allows you to do variable phase adjustments or flip the phase on a particular slice of the frequency spectrum. We decided to do the boost or cut switch instead of having the more common detent at 12 O'clock. That approach effectively doubles the resolution for boost and cut adjustments.

The console has the usual compliment of 24 multi-track busses and 6 aux sends. The mix buss is a bit unique in that we decided to use vacuum tube amplifiers for the mix buss path. The concept is that tubes are better at handling dense complicated signals, the same way tube guitar amps tend to sound better when playing chords. There is also a tube output amp for the Control Room Monitor output. The result is a beautifully detailed, open and relaxing sound. I have found it to be easy on the ears when working long days mixing.

The other unique feature is how the console interacts acoustically in the room. One thing that I have always wrestled with over the years, is how the work surface of a mixing console effects the accuracy of near field monitors. Having a vast flat metal surface sitting directly under your near field monitors is not good. It causes dramatic comb filtering anomalies that do a pretty good job of destroying the accuracy of the 1K-5K range. We have come up with an acoustically transparent work surface for the console that almost totally eliminates this problem. My NS10s actually sound like they are just sitting on stands. In addition, the frame and any where possible we designed the console so sound waves can pass through it. It is as open as it could possibly be and minimizes its effects on the main monitors/ subs etc.

I stripped this thing down to the essentials for making records. There's no attempt to accommodate dub stages, film mixing, broadcast or whatever. This is a console is for making music. The console itself is a physically a manageable size and a 60 channel configuration runs off of one 20 amp circuit. The 60 ch 88R I owned was connected to 80 amps of power. Everyday was basically a battle between the 88R and the AC system.

So now I'm curious to see if other people will respond to the sound and features of the console the way I have. We will be showing a 24 channel version of the console at AES 129 in San Francisco. The company is called Undertone Audio.
#44
25th July 2010
Old 25th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ev33 View Post
[I]

So now I'm curious to see if other people will respond to the sound and features of the console the way I have. We will be showing a 24 channel version of the console at AES 129 in San Francisco. The company is called Undertone Audio.
Wow.
thanks for the detailed response.
talk about commitment to better audio.yikes
your description sounds amazing.
That EQ design sounds ridiculous.
any chance you guys might release an eq and or mic pre channel strip kinda deal in the future?
looking forward to SF AES.
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#45
26th July 2010
Old 26th July 2010
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...........my god.
I think I'm going to have to jump on a plane for San Fran... soon.. coffee anyone?

hey what happened to that EMI MKIV you had? I believe Oasis has the other one e

cant wait to hear some stuff off this new beast!

thanks for the feedback on cymbals... they are pretty much all the same things I was trying to control them.

These tricks just dont work for everyone hey! :( God I've got my frankenstein kit sounding great at the moment though!

this is amazingly nice of you to keep coming back Eric, I'm sure we all really appreciate it!
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27th July 2010
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Hey Eric, have you ever combined that underhead technique with a mono overhead? I'm thinking about giving this a shot on a session soon but anticipate some phase issues. Do you find that the underhead ribbon mics tend to replace the need for an overhead, would my time be better spend combining them with a room mic rather than an overhead? Just wondering since it seems like this is an approach you have used fairly often.
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#47
29th July 2010
Old 29th July 2010
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finally got my modem delivered to studio a few days ago...along with a dead bird on the door mat (which was wierd).

so here we go.
I've been trying to nail this dry, boxy but punchy sound for ages and with many thanks, Eric, I think I'm finally getting closer to what i've got in my head.
The secret really seems to be the mono room in a dead room. That is the most prominent mic in the mix and has been what I've not been using in the past.
however this also has another mono room behind the kit which is a aea ribbon pointing at the floor.. i always use this and dirt it up a lot for some vibe.

This is a rough bounce of a session me and my assistant were mucking around with the other day. We tracked a little eq on the way to tools through some ssl 502 modules and its got some Software bus compression (as one of my distressors is playing silly buggers at the moment). Can't wait to try it to tape at some point.

but all in all.. not bad for an hours work.. im pumped and cant wait to work with a band good enough to try this sound for real! Perhaps would need to track cymbals separately though as I was playing REALLY light on and they're still cutting through a fair bit!
The balance is great without the mono room..which is why i started using the fig8 underheads in the first place but just too much with the front mono room.

Very keen for your input guys so feel free to tear it apart


god i love my job

Matt.
Attached Files
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#48
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
Hey Eric, have you ever combined that underhead technique with a mono overhead? I'm thinking about giving this a shot on a session soon but anticipate some phase issues. Do you find that the underhead ribbon mics tend to replace the need for an overhead, would my time be better spend combining them with a room mic rather than an overhead? Just wondering since it seems like this is an approach you have used fairly often.
I do think of the underheads as doing the job that overheads would normally do. When I have tried an equidistant mono OH with the underheads it has never added up in a particularly satisfying way. I think it is because the underheads are picking up the snr more from the node of the fig 8 pattern and that doesn't seem to add up well with a mic over the kit in card. The idea of the underhead approach is to reduce the total # of mics necessary which will reduce potential phase issues. The underhead on the left side of the kit, when placed properly will capture the left hand crash, hi-hat and rack tom in a very focused way. Eliminating the need for a hi hat mic and tom mic. Same goes for the right hand underhead. It gets the floor tom, ride cymbal and right hand crash. All of which sound quite close up. In my experience the mono rm mic has been the best compliment, unless you are trying to get a very dry drum sound. The obvious pitfall of the approach is that it doesn't offer a lot of isolation for for flexibility in mixing (gating, EQing, compressing.. etc). The drums need to be tuned and played in a way that pretty much sounds the way you want without a lot of processing.

There is an LCR overhead technique that is pretty cool. Three mics in Card placed around the kit. The trick is that the center mic is placed to be as equal a distance to all the various parts of the kit as possible (snr, toms, cymbals) and each of the LR mics are closer to their respective drum kit elements by at least a 3:1 ratio. So if the center mic is an average 3 ft from all the drum kit elements than the L mic would have to be 1 foot or closer to the Hi hat, crash (crash cymbals are typically at a lower ringo-esque height) and rack tom while sill being 3 feet from the snare. same goes for the R mic. When it works out you can get a very focused/natural snr sound and very natural stereo image of the kit without having close mics. This was used on the QOTSA Songs for The Def record. It was easy to pull off because of the overdubed cymbals.

Let me know if you find a combo that works for you.

EV
#49
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandem5 View Post
...........my god.
I think I'm going to have to jump on a plane for San Fran... soon.. coffee anyone?

hey what happened to that EMI MKIV you had? I believe Oasis has the other one e

cant wait to hear some stuff off this new beast!

thanks for the feedback on cymbals... they are pretty much all the same things I was trying to control them.

These tricks just dont work for everyone hey! :( God I've got my frankenstein kit sounding great at the moment though!

this is amazingly nice of you to keep coming back Eric, I'm sure we all really appreciate it!
The EMI console never belonged to me. The owner has set it up in another studio. I have been lucky to have some generous friends that have been willing to trade favors and make an EMI console available to me on 2 occasions now. The first one was around 2004 and more recently I used a different one on the Slash solo record. They really do sound pretty magical.

EV
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#50
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
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the closest thing I've ever seen to real EMI stuff in OZ is these OBA-1 units that some techs from EMI made over here for location recording.
I think they actually run off batteries and need some serious mods for studio use haha

A guy called Joe Malone makes a pretty mean clone over here as well though which I reckon sounds pretty amazing.

I reckon what those pre's do to sound would bring out the kick and snare in a really nice/interesting way with this style of tuning/mic'ing as I find myself trying to eq in those sort of qualities to the sound. e

shame about giving back the MkIV man.. i think if I owned one I'd build my whole studio to look like the Enterprise around it
#51
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
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Eric Valentines Underhead issues

Great info here, Eric.
I might give it a go, we have a similar dry drum booth.
#52
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ev33 View Post
The EMI console never belonged to me. The owner has set it up in another studio. I have been lucky to have some generous friends that have been willing to trade favors and make an EMI console available to me on 2 occasions now. The first one was around 2004 and more recently I used a different one on the Slash solo record. They really do sound pretty magical.

EV
Agreed - magical. The one I got to use at Vega Studio in the south of France was almost impossible to make a bad sound on.

Sorry we never got to meet in the Bay Area. I always wanted to swing by with some mutual friends we have.

Still wondering if that's a sample of "Lust For Life" tucked under "Lifestyles..." Love the way that song sounds thumbsup
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#53
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
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Hi Eric,

Thanks for the great info. I have a few brief questions, if you have the time.

How did you achieve such a fat snare sound 3eb's self titled album? Primarily on the songs Michael Urbano recorded. Which mics, tuning, snare heads, muffling, etc were used?

Lastly, how did you get the toms off of the QOTSA album to sound so dry and punchy? Was it the overheads you were talking about primarily? Or, more the close up mics? Do you know what type of heads, tuning, muffling Dave used to get his drum sound on that album. Sounded fantastic.

Thanks much.
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30th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruanddu View Post
Hi Eric,

How did you achieve such a fat snare sound 3eb's self titled album? Primarily on the songs Michael Urbano recorded. Which mics, tuning, snare heads, muffling, etc were used?

Thanks much.
Urbano is on the 3rd eye blind record?? Now that I think about it, it does sound like him. He normally played a Yamaha recording custom or a vintage Ludwig kit during that time. His kit always sounded like it was already recorded and EQ'd naturally in the room to me. He used to do some weird thing with the kick and beater that sounded really modern. Not sure if he used his own kit on this stuff though.
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30th July 2010
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Still curious about the C12a's instead of the Coles 4038's on the slash record.
Eric is the sh*t for hanging out here answering questions. Super cool.
#56
31st July 2010
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Yeah, Urbano did about 5-6 of the drum tracks for that album. Really great parts with a killer sounding kit.
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2nd August 2010
Old 2nd August 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruanddu View Post
Hi Eric,

Thanks for the great info. I have a few brief questions, if you have the time.

How did you achieve such a fat snare sound 3eb's self titled album? Primarily on the songs Michael Urbano recorded. Which mics, tuning, snare heads, muffling, etc were used?

Lastly, how did you get the toms off of the QOTSA album to sound so dry and punchy? Was it the overheads you were talking about primarily? Or, more the close up mics? Do you know what type of heads, tuning, muffling Dave used to get his drum sound on that album. Sounded fantastic.

Thanks much.
Michael Urbano played on 4 songs on the record:

Losing A Whole Year
Narcolepsy
Motorcycle Drive By
How's It Gonna Be

All 4 of these songs had somewhat peculiar circumstances around them. The only thing consistent thing about them is that Michael played on all of them and that is probably most of what you are hearing. Michael plays a unique style: (Left hand on hat right hand on snare). It makes a lot of sense, the 2 hands aren't getting in the way of each other and it makes it a lot easier to have the hits be very consistent.

Losing A Whole Year we ended up using the demo version of the song. There was an "album" version of the song recorded at Skywalker Ranch that didn't end up having the same urgency and excitement as the demo version. The demo recordings were done very quickly at my studio (HOS), 4 songs in a weekend kind of thing. Micing was very simple, most likely 421 on kick, 57 on snr, 421's on toms and C12A's on OH. I remember there were no room mics recorded on that stuff. Tom Lord Algae mixed Losing A Whole year and did a pretty good job of manufacturing a room sound on the drums.

Narcolepsy originally was played by Brad and Stephan. Brad played the intro part and Stephan played rest of the song. Ultimately we decided that stephan's drum track wasn't working. We had Michael come to replay everything but the intro. That was also recorded at HOS but with a more complete mic'ing setup. The album tracking was typically a 47fet blended with either a 421 or an ATM25 for kick, a 57 for snr top and a U64 for the bottom snr. A rented pair of C12s for over heads. C12As for toms. a coles 4038 about 3 feet in front of the kit for a mono overall drum kit sound. a pair of U87s for room mics. The drum kit was my Sonor kit.

Motorcycle Drive By was done at HOS with a similar setup. In this case Michael came in to play the song and did an initial pass so I could see how the setup was sounding with michael playing. All the levels were definitely too hot but Michael's first time playing the song was exciting sounding that we decided to keep it. Just to be sure this fact doesn't slip by. The drum track on Motorcycle Drive By was recorded in one take 1st try, no punching or editing. Urbano (or Urbonham as I like to call him) is the real F'n deal.

How's It Gonna Be was also a demo version of the song that I didn't record the basics of. I only recorded bass, guitar, percussion and autoharp overdubs on it. I don't know what was used on that. I did use a kick sample on that tune to get it to sound a bit more like the rest of the record.

As far as heads, tuning, damping etc. I like to use coated heads. top head will be either coated ambassador, coated emperor, or ocassionally a coated power stroke 3 ( I am currently really enjoying the Emperor X heads). The tuning is dependent on a lot of things. I always try to tune the drums to the key of the song. I will use the snare that seems to be "speaking" the best when tuned to a complimentary note to the key of the song. There is one trick I like to use for muffling on a snare drum. I tape a small piece of leather to the rim of the drum. When the drum is hit it will bounce up and let the drum sound completely open for a brief moment and then dampen the sustained ring when it falls back down and rests on the head. It gives a slight gated effect that can be cool and I like the fact that it doesn't kill the sound of the drum when its hit, just shortens excessive ringing.

The Tom sound on QOTSA Songs For The Deaf record is unique because there are no actual close mics on them. That mic'ing setup was an LCR over head setup described earlier in this thread and I think is probably responsible for the quality your hearing. I definitely prefer the sound of drums when they are mic'd further away. on the AAR song Gives You Hell there is a big tom fill that brings in the chorus and I specifically had the drummer not play that part with the main drum pass so we could overdub those toms and mic them from more of a distance. the airspace seems to make the low end more explosive and punchier.

EV
#58
2nd August 2010
Old 2nd August 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winey View Post
Still curious about the C12a's instead of the Coles 4038's on the slash record.
Eric is the sh*t for hanging out here answering questions. Super cool.
I was going for a very specific Glynn/Andy Johns zepplin style over/under thing on the By The Sword song. Specifically referencing the drum sound on No Quarter (one of my favorite drum sounds of all time). I had never been able to get the over under thing to work for me before and finally figured something out on that recording. I changed the 'under' mic so it wasn't looking across the floor tom at the snr. I don't like that because it gets to much hi hat and messes up the stereo image. I moved the under mic so it looks across the floor tom at the ride cymbal and than it seemed to work for me.

EV
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#59
2nd August 2010
Old 2nd August 2010
  #59
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Joined: Jul 2005
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you have an uncanny memory of how shit got done Eric!

I've always kind of been interested about how you got into producing... and your experiences with T-Ride. Is that where you began developing your skills?

i know its not a tech question but... myea...
#60
3rd August 2010
Old 3rd August 2010
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruanddu View Post
Yeah, Urbano did about 5-6 of the drum tracks for that album. Really great parts with a killer sounding kit.
Yeah. He is an amazing drummer and an all around sensitive man. If it seems interesting to anyone I'll send him a note to drop over here to share some of his thoughts on the 3eb drum recording sessions.
A great drummer like Urbano or Josh Freese make the engineering\producing part MUCH easier.
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