Mults and Phase issues

[krs]

I completely forgot about the disabling plugs feature, that will for sure free up the necessary dsp to audition with the extra bypassed plugs.

Thanks man

ps I never used Logic before, but I'm guessing this kind of monkey business isn't necesssary there...

[Curve Dominant]

Gregg touched on some of this already...here's reiterating from a slightly different angle for clarity:

posted by krs:
Just curious, for us native/CPU usage challenged boys, how many samples of latency do you allow before you take action? Having a session filled with bypassed plugs is not my idea of a good time

I'm new to this multing stuff, and I'm not sure how much to trust my monitoring. thanks!

I'd love to know how other LE people are getting around this !@#$ thing.

I'm using a 001 with a G3 350MHz, and doing all the fancy parallel compression on drum submixes, guitar submixes, Shipley's "airy vocal" techiques, etc. etc.

It's simple: Print your effects.

For the parallel submix compression, I bounce the crushed mix to disk, and import it back into the session. No latency, no CPU drain. Just "Save As" the sub mix session, so you can go back and tweak it if it's not "just right" in the original mix.

For mults techniques that require lots of (CPU-draining) plugin effects manipulation: select the audio, open the plugin in Audiosuite, and print the effect. No latency, no CPU drain. Just make sure you select "create individual files" on the plugin so you can go back and get the original audio if you need it.

Where there's a will, there's a way. And there is always a f&cking way.

[Dave Pensado]

...great answers, the only thing I will add is that you should have been around in the old days (mid '90's) when time aligning a track was a real chore. Finally Steinberg came up with a plug that would help you guess at the latency (sic). Mostly we did it by EAR. What a bitch. I also walked 5 miles to school in 3 feet of snow...and that is something in TAMPA/MIAMI!

[Extreme Mixing]

Yeah, and why was it always 4:00 in the morning when it was time to fly the BGs in with the two track. What a trip!

Steve

[toolskid]

For mults techniques that require lots of (CPU-draining) plugin effects manipulation: select the audio, open the plugin in Audiosuite, and print the effect. No latency, no CPU drain. Just make sure you select "create individual files" on the plugin so you can go back and get the original audio if you need it.

watch out - there can be plenty of printed latency with audiosuite plug-ins

[Curve Dominant]

watch out - there can be plenty of printed latency with audiosuite plug-ins

There shouldn't be - unless it's a delay plugin (DOH!).

Seriously though, I've checked on occasion, and so far haven't found latency on printed effects (or tracks bounced to disk for that matter).

AFAIK...

Plugin latency is a result of the realtime processing.

Whereas, when you print an effect, the plugin is applying a numerical alteration to the audio region. There's no reason why that should move the region, and if it does, there's a glitch in the plugin code.

Anyone care to confirm or deny this?

[Ruphus]

Hello Curve,

I had a question for you on the meanwhile deleted Mike Shipley thread which you probably missed.

It is about the collection you made from the advice of Mike and others. Would you be willing to share those notes?
I´m planning to write down and organize tips from an interesting book where several MEs share their knowledge in. So, I could contribute a bit material too in a while.

What do you think?

Ruphus

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
Plugin latency is a result of the realtime processing.

Anyone care to confirm or deny this?

I thought it happened on anything except Invert or Gain in PT -- I've definitely had it happen on UltraPitch.

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Ruphus:
Hello Curve,

I had a question for you on the meanwhile deleted Mike Shipley thread which you probably missed.

Huh??

Why are Ship's threads being deleted?

It is about the collection you made from the advice of Mike and others. Would you be willing to share those notes?

Dude,

The volume of materials I've documented from this and other forums could take up an entire book itself. They do, actually. I have filled several 3-ring binders full of stuff, and that's only what I've printed. There's a truckload of unprinted stuff still sitting in my harddrives.

You would have to be specific IRT which kinds of info you're looking for.

[Ruphus]

Everything from recording over mixing to mastering would be interesting to me, except of tips about designing circuits maybe.

As text files don´t take up much space you could send over a bunch and I would sort it then.

The deleted thread was the one where Mike quit moderating.

Ruphus

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Gregg Sartiano:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Curve Dominant
Plugin latency is a result of the realtime processing.

Anyone care to confirm or deny this?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought it happened on anything except Invert or Gain in PT -- I've definitely had it happen on UltraPitch.

Gregg,

Disclaimer: You're one of the people around here I'm generally hesitant to contradict...but after reading your post, I opened up a PT session to check this. (I'm using PT v5.1 on a 001 system, B&W Mac G3).

OK, I looked at a pair of vocal tracks: one the original, and the other a duplicate. On the duplicate, I printed an Arboretum High Pass, then a Fairchild 660.

I opened up both tracks to Jumbo view, and found an obvious transient. The beginning of the transients lined up exactly at the zero crossing at sample level for both tracks.

Now I don't have the UltraPitch plugin (should I? is it cool?) so I can't check that. And I have to confess I haven't checked every printed effect for latency. I've only done random checks out of curiousity, and so far haven't found any latency for printed effects in my home-based system so far.

Mainly I've checked for latency when printing duplicated drums and guitars, and Bounced To Disk files, because that's where the phasing issues would become apparent. In most of those cases, it was compression (and sometimes EQ) plugins I printed, and so far haven't encountered any latency issues.

The only occasions where I've audibly heard phasing issues on my rig, is when I've improperly aligned samples, and in those cases I could definitely hear the phasing, so I'd like to think I could hear phasing issues in the case of printed plugin latency. I could be wrong though.

We're getting really geeky here, but that's our job, right?

[Curve Dominant]

The deleted thread was the one where Mike quit moderating.

Mike quit?

Why am I always the last person on Earth to find out about these things???

[djui5]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
Mike quit?

Why am I always the last person on Earth to find out about these things???

Why did he quit?...too busy?

[Ruphus]

No, it was because someone had asked about the tweaks on the vocal of one of Mike´s recorded artists and others had chimed in then to critisize the singer as untalented auto-tune chick. One of the posters seemed merely aiming to offend Mr. Shipley though who then took the opportunity to quit moderating. He said he felt that moderation wasn´t the right thing for him ( or vice versa: he not suiting for moderation ).

Something like that.

Curve, what´s up? Yep or njet?

Ruphus

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
We're getting really geeky here, but that's our job, right?

I'll check it out today.

Yeah, UltraPitch is way cool -- there's a 6-note harmonizer on it! I automated the harmonizing notes around the chord changes for this one song...too much fun!

It's definitely our job to get geeky. If we don't, who will?

Curve, thanks for the compliment -- my ego just got upgraded

Bummer about that Shipley thing...I didn't know he bailed either, although that one guy was really going after him -- I was reading that thread as it was going down. In fact, I did a search for it the other day: looks like it (mercifully) disappeared. "Shania Vocal Chain" -- right? Looks like one bad apple spoiled the whole damn bunch.

It's ironic that it happened that way -- y'know, gearslutz is the only interactive net experience I bother with. The quality of people (general manners/intelligence and specific knowledge) here is so high...I was on one of those guitar boards and it was such a waste. I love having the ability to share thoughts and experiences, and the give/take of tips and techniques allows us to explore and stay on top of our game! I consider it a privilege to call the gearslutz family my peer group.

[krs]

Originally posted by Gregg Sartiano
I love having the ability to share thoughts and experiences, and the give/take of tips and techniques allows us to explore and stay on top of our game! I consider it a privilege to call the gearslutz family my peer group.

Ditto. Dilettante here who is totally reaping the benefits of the experience of this community. My mixes are sounding 100% better since DP became guest moderator here. Many thanks for all the insight and technique Dave.

[toolskid]

re: curve dominant...ever used autotune???...duplicate????etc etc etc...

just trying to help mate...

just trying to pass on years of protools experience....

enjoy your sample errors!!!


whatever

peace