Need help with R&B Kick

Ultimax · 19th September 2004, 06:15 AM

I am doing a R&B ballad. I am using a 909ish kick. I love the sample. it sounds great by itself. when it enters the mix there is only a voice and piano. I am trying to get the kick to have a lot of depth. Nice lowend but it sounds woofy or a little cloudy. If I roll off some lowend say up to 58hz then the body that I like of the kick is gone.

I want to feel the kick in my chest. Some well mixed songs have that low end where you feel it in your chest.

How do you get the kick to sound clear but keep the lowend body.

If you listen to the ballade by Daniel Beddingfield "If you're not the one" the kick has a nice sub punch to it but it is very clear.

I keep trying different techniques. I will leave in 60hz and below but dip around 200hz. then it just sounds like sub and no body.

need help

thethrillfactor · 19th September 2004, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ultimax
I am doing a R&B ballad. I am using a 909ish kick. I love the sample. it sounds great by itself. when it enters the mix there is only a voice and piano. I am trying to get the kick to have a lot of depth. Nice lowend but it sounds woofy or a little cloudy. If I roll off some lowend say up to 58hz then the body that I like of the kick is gone.

I want to feel the kick in my chest. Some well mixed songs have that low end where you feel it in your chest.

How do you get the kick to sound clear but keep the lowend body.

If you listen to the ballade by Daniel Beddingfield "If you're not the one" the kick has a nice sub punch to it but it is very clear.

I keep trying different techniques. I will leave in 60hz and below but dip around 200hz. then it just sounds like sub and no body.

need help

You could try layering it with other samples or:

Try splitting it up on different channels and summing it back it together.

If none of these work, than maybe changing the sound all together.

Remember mixing is about how everything works and blends as a whole, not just individually.

grouphome · 19th September 2004, 01:06 PM

Try Dip it around 80 Hz with a real sharp Q

axtrak · 19th September 2004, 03:32 PM

Hi,

have you tried to adjust the length of 909 kick, often 909´s are very tight in the beginning and get boomy & muddy in the end. Just try to trim the sample until its clear but still punchy...

Dave Pensado · 20th September 2004, 12:17 AM

I would guess that the topend is not right. Check out one of the other posts to see how I do it, I can't remember which post, but it has to do with splitting the kik and using various compression. Remember if you want more bass out of a bass, just turn it up! It's BASS. if you want more lo end from a kik, turn the son-uva-bitch up. Psycho-accoustically, the ear needs some 800-1K, some 3-5k and some 10k to "find" the kik. Add these while in the mix. Don't be afraid to turn up the hi's in the chorus's. It gives the feeling that the drummer hit it harder. Let us know if this helps. Remember, like thethrillfaactor said, don't be against adding a sample that has the frequencies you are missing. Check out some of my Brian Mcknight mixes, and tell me if any of those are close to what you are hearing, and I will send you some samples.

Ultimax · 20th September 2004, 05:08 AM

Hi
Thanks for all the help. I finally got it working. I shortened the kick with a gate since it was already printed. This helped a lot. Then I realized which was my mistake that I have the Maxxbass plugin set to high on the track. this was making it muddy and more boomy then it needed to be.
It is not perfect but helped a lot.

Another question is I am using JBL LSR28lps for my bigger speaker to hear the bottom. They say the reach down to 34hz I think. am I really hearing enough defintion in the low end or should I add a sub. There is a JBL Sub thas goes with it.

If I add a sub which one should I add. also is there a way to setit up so can add the sub in and also leave it out so I canuse the LSDR28lps by themself or with the sub.

Thanks for everything

butterfly · 20th September 2004, 10:59 AM

Ultimax have you tried the rbass plug in. i used to use the max bass but find the rbass warmer and more subtley adjustable.

Extreme Mixing · 20th September 2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Pensado
Check out some of my Brian Mcknight mixes, and tell me if any of those are close to what you are hearing, and I will send you some samples.

Hey, Dave!

I like samples, too. Me too, me too, me too!!!

I like your advice about bass. Want more bass? Turn it up. I think the opposite is true too. When your track sounds heavy and wooffy, try turning the bass down instead of notching it, or the whole track, with an eq.

Thanks,

Steve

axtrak · 20th September 2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Extreme Mixing
Hey, Dave!

I like samples, too. Me too, me too, me too!!!

I like your advice about bass. Want more bass? Turn it up. I think the opposite is true too. When your track sounds heavy and wooffy, try turning the bass down instead of notching it, or the whole track, with an eq.

Thanks,

Steve

yes, please also for me, i´m´really curios...

living sounds · 20th September 2004, 06:16 PM

It would be absolutely fabulous to get some of those samples.
It would also be great to hear those different elements of one of those manufactured kickdrums. It does of course have to fit the mix, but being able to hear them seperately will definitly help in getting closer on you're own, since you know the direction where to go better. Have you every thought of making a sample CD, Dave?

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19th September 2004, 06:15 AM	#1
Ultimax Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26	Need help with R&B Kick I am doing a R&B ballad. I am using a 909ish kick. I love the sample. it sounds great by itself. when it enters the mix there is only a voice and piano. I am trying to get the kick to have a lot of depth. Nice lowend but it sounds woofy or a little cloudy. If I roll off some lowend say up to 58hz then the body that I like of the kick is gone. I want to feel the kick in my chest. Some well mixed songs have that low end where you feel it in your chest. How do you get the kick to sound clear but keep the lowend body. If you listen to the ballade by Daniel Beddingfield "If you're not the one" the kick has a nice sub punch to it but it is very clear. I keep trying different techniques. I will leave in 60hz and below but dip around 200hz. then it just sounds like sub and no body. need help

19th September 2004, 01:06 PM	#3
grouphome Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands Posts: 107	Try Dip it around 80 Hz with a real sharp Q __________________ www.guezzwho.com Just got another MPC! Gettin' ready for a SLAM!

20th September 2004, 12:17 AM	#5
Dave Pensado Guest Moderator - September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 125	good suggestions I would guess that the topend is not right. Check out one of the other posts to see how I do it, I can't remember which post, but it has to do with splitting the kik and using various compression. Remember if you want more bass out of a bass, just turn it up! It's BASS. if you want more lo end from a kik, turn the son-uva-bitch up. Psycho-accoustically, the ear needs some 800-1K, some 3-5k and some 10k to "find" the kik. Add these while in the mix. Don't be afraid to turn up the hi's in the chorus's. It gives the feeling that the drummer hit it harder. Let us know if this helps. Remember, like thethrillfaactor said, don't be against adding a sample that has the frequencies you are missing. Check out some of my Brian Mcknight mixes, and tell me if any of those are close to what you are hearing, and I will send you some samples.

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19th September 2004, 03:32 PM	#4
axtrak Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Aachen, Germany Posts: 186	Hi, have you tried to adjust the length of 909 kick, often 909´s are very tight in the beginning and get boomy & muddy in the end. Just try to trim the sample until its clear but still punchy...

20th September 2004, 05:08 AM	#6
Ultimax Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26	Hi Thanks for all the help. I finally got it working. I shortened the kick with a gate since it was already printed. This helped a lot. Then I realized which was my mistake that I have the Maxxbass plugin set to high on the track. this was making it muddy and more boomy then it needed to be. It is not perfect but helped a lot. Another question is I am using JBL LSR28lps for my bigger speaker to hear the bottom. They say the reach down to 34hz I think. am I really hearing enough defintion in the low end or should I add a sub. There is a JBL Sub thas goes with it. If I add a sub which one should I add. also is there a way to setit up so can add the sub in and also leave it out so I canuse the LSDR28lps by themself or with the sub. Thanks for everything

20th September 2004, 10:59 AM	#7
butterfly Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: uk Posts: 470	Ultimax have you tried the rbass plug in. i used to use the max bass but find the rbass warmer and more subtley adjustable.

20th September 2004, 06:16 PM	#10
living sounds Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 522	It would be absolutely fabulous to get some of those samples. It would also be great to hear those different elements of one of those manufactured kickdrums. It does of course have to fit the mix, but being able to hear them seperately will definitly help in getting closer on you're own, since you know the direction where to go better. Have you every thought of making a sample CD, Dave?