some thoughts on cliff diving

[Dave Pensado]

I was just thinking about some of my opinions, suggestions, and techniques that I have shared with you guys (and ladies). Let's say this were the Mexican Cliff Diving forum. Let's suppose that all of you were wanna-be cliff divers and I was the guest moderator. I could give all kinds of opinions and advice on various do's and dont's but I would be surprised if any of you would read this and go jump off a cliff. My point is this. I might say something simple, but it takes a lot of time and practice, and even some crappy mixes to really get it. Yeah, sure, some things will be an immediate help, but most require that you make the technique your own, and that you experiment. I have tried to be very explicit, but in the end you have to just go for it...jump off the cliff. If you live, then what I'm saying will make more sense. If you don't, well maybe you weren't cut out to be a cliff diver.

[jazzius II]

I agree, Dave. I think that you can give someone all your best tricks, but if they're not ready for them, they can do nothing with them.

Tricks and advice are only half the equation......the experience which led to those decisions is the key factor.

[Jules]

You will be hearing from my lawyers!



Jules
Ward 6
Seaview Hospital
Dover, UK

[Renie]

LOL Jules!!

[C.Lambrechts]

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .... EXCELLENT post ... both Dave and Jules ... Jules you just made my day. HAHAHAHA .......; LOL

[Curve Dominant]

It's not jumping that gets you hurt, it's the sudden stop at the end.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Dave Pensado
Yeah, sure, some things will be an immediate help, but most require that you make the technique your own, and that you experiment. I have tried to be very explicit, but in the end you have to just go for it...jump off the cliff. If you live, then what I'm saying will make more sense. If you don't, well maybe you weren't cut out to be a cliff diver.

Agreed here also.thumbsup

I think people are looking for the instant gratification anwer and don't really want to experiment for themselves.

Basically they want you to pick what they should wear,lay it out for them and dress em.

This is the one problem i think with the forumn sometimes.

Not enough "try it out on your own and see" is encouraged.

[maks]

Jules, you...you...

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Agreed here also.thumbsup

I think people are looking for the instant gratification anwer and don't really want to experiment for themselves.

Basically they want you to pick what they should wear,lay it out for them and dress em.

This is the one problem i think with the forumn sometimes.

Not enough "try it out on your own and see" is encouraged.

Agree thrill and Dave. Experimenting is the only way to go. But heres the thing, sometimes people get stuck in problems and need new ideas to experiment with. That's where Dave comes in, or Thrill.. it opens my mind to different ways of doing things that would have probably taken me years to come up with if it wasn't for people like you guys .

[Teacher]

Originally posted by Jose Mrochek
Agree thrill and Dave. Experimenting is the only way to go. But heres the thing, sometimes people get stuck in problems and need new ideas to experiment with. That's where Dave comes in, or Thrill.. it opens my mind to different ways of doing things that would have probably taken me years to come up with if it wasn't for people like you guys .

amen

[Curve Dominant]

posted by thethrillfactor:
This is the one problem i think with the forum sometimes.

Not enough "try it out on your own and see" is encouraged.

AARRGGHHH!!! HOW TRUE!

And a general intolerance for unorthodoxed approaches...

Don't get ME started on THAT one.

[LTA]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
It's not jumping that gets you hurt, it's the sudden stop at the end.

Rapid decelleration syndrome.

We don't have many cliffs around here. How about some tips on how to catch a big lunker? I haven't caught anything larger than an 8 inch perch in the last decade. Sure I haven't been fishing in 10 years, but really, how DO I catch that big bass everybody is talking about here?

[Curve Dominant]

A good DI box helps, L.

[krs]

how DO I catch that big bass everybody is talking about here?

real crayfish on a floating jighead with medium size sinker 18 inches up the line. fish around shoals and dropoffs, even weeds.

Technique baby.

[djui5]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
A good DI box helps, L.

That was pretty good Curve....

[djui5]

Originally posted by Jose Mrochek
Agree thrill and Dave. Experimenting is the only way to go. But heres the thing, sometimes people get stuck in problems and need new ideas to experiment with. That's where Dave comes in, or Thrill.. it opens my mind to different ways of doing things that would have probably taken me years to come up with if it wasn't for people like you guys .

Yeah.... defeniatly agreeable

[Dave Pensado]

I never set out to be a good engineer, but when I accidently discovered the profession, I was consumed by it. I would not leave the studio. I would record anything that stood still long enuff to mic. I got my buddies to hit a snare drum for me for WEEKS. I would change heads, mics, room position, 6" black dot, 8" black dot, Evans hydraulic heads, Remo thin bottom, 4" snares, and on and on. I would try different tunings. It got to the point where I couldn't get people to come to the studio! I would record all this and take notes. When I went home I would listen to the variations (much to my girlfriends dislike). I knew every thing there was to know about snares. It took me 3 months. Then I did kiks, then little toms, then floor toms, then guitars, the vocals. Needless to say after about 2 years of this I felt like I kinda knew how to record. I did this because it was fun! I didn't think I would ever make alot of money, it just seemed RIGHT. EXPERIMENT! Use my ideas as a starting point, the world does not need more mixes by me, it needs YOUR uniqueness. I realize some of you just want to make better demos. I respect that, and I always try to remember that everyone is not doing this for a career. But at least make the best demos you can. I like what Jose said, we should all encourage each other to try and do NEW things. Some of my best ideas are MISTAKES. Curve, I agree with you also. When I first started it was tough, because I didn't sound like other people. But it was this uniqueness that people finally started paying me to do. Yeah, it took me 10 years to get to the big time, but I never realized it, because I was having so much fun with my little indy projects, and being out there on the fringes. Sometimes I REALLY MISS IT OUT THERE! Anyway, keep the passion in whatever you do. The sucess will always follow.

[Jose Mrochek]

this las post Dave , was worth a million audio posts put together. thank you

[lesique]

Totally agreed with Jose.
And Dave of course

[strauss]

So do you still do the occasional tracking?

[Dave Pensado]

Not as much as I would like. I still feel the most skilled job in engineering is a great tracking engineer. He (or she) can make everyone else look like a genius. He is responsible for the vibe, the sounds, most of the production dicisions, the quality of the recording and on and on. It's a shame that the mixers get all the credit. I find it disturbing that most of my seconds never get to track, and then move on out into the recording world. Some, who really love it, like e-cue, make up for the lack of practice quite quickly, and become great at it. Most still think that mixing is the pinnacle. Sad.

[music]

So mixing is like being a rock star and engineering is like being a roadie? Althought the roadie or guitar tech or whatever gets the rocks star sounding great, the rockstar none the less gets all the accolades. I think most people like being the rock star.

Maybe not...

[music]

Originally posted by Dave Pensado
4' snares

4 foot snares! Wow! huge! How the hell did you get those into the studio?

Just Jokin' of course. Excellent insight Dave. With a work ethic like that I can see why so much success.

[Dave Pensado]

Hey music, you think 4 foot snares are big, you should have seen the sticks! We didn't mic it, it just forced itself onto the tape. Good catch, I fixed it, thanks.

[Drumsound]

Absolutely wonderful thread Dave! Thanks for being here.

[jazzius II]

When i started out (in my home production studio), there was no internet to speak of and no forums. And I'm kinda glad about that. It was all experimentation and listening to improve my sound, with the only external advice being Sound on Sound once a month.

Sometimes i worry about noobs getting hung up on things like summing, external clocking and dither before they've got the basics down......all because of forums.....or people thinking they have to buy Cranesong or Manley to do good stuff.....when i was a noob, Focurite greens was the high end!

On the flipside, people can now pick up things from people like Dave or 'Thrill.....stuff they'd prolly never have learned before the internet.....but i think it's interesteing to note they (Dave etc.)developed these skills before the internet!

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by Dave Pensado
Not as much as I would like. I still feel the most skilled job in engineering is a great tracking engineer. He (or she) can make everyone else look like a genius. He is responsible for the vibe, the sounds, most of the production dicisions, the quality of the recording and on and on. It's a shame that the mixers get all the credit. I find it disturbing that most of my seconds never get to track, and then move on out into the recording world. Some, who really love it, like e-cue, make up for the lack of practice quite quickly, and become great at it. Most still think that mixing is the pinnacle. Sad.

great tracking engineers to me, are great Psychologists. thats the skill I admire most from good tracking engineers . keeping the session smooth is a art of it's own.

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Dave Pensado:
Curve, I agree with you also. When I first started it was tough, because I didn't sound like other people. But it was this uniqueness that people finally started paying me to do. Yeah, it took me 10 years to get to the big time, but I never realized it, because I was having so much fun with my little indy projects, and being out there on the fringes. Sometimes I REALLY MISS IT OUT THERE!

Dave,

Hopefully 10 years from now, I'll be saying the same thing you just posted. That's ironic, isn't it? I want to be where you're at, but you miss being where I'm at.

You posted something on one of the threads here which I printed out and pasted to the wall behind my monitor, and I look at it and read it every day, and it guides my thoughts and methods as I work:

Hiss reminds me of the ocean, and that is a wonderful thing...

Select a few important elements of the track to hear, and screw the rest. REALLY.

Diving off that cliff of wisdom has been a liberating experience.

If I ever get to where you're at, it will be in no small measure due to that bit of cliff-diving advice.

Peace, bro, and (hopefully) see you on the cliffs...

[jebjerome]

Oh... CLIFF diving....

whoops.


I thought this was the muff diving thread.



Anyway, sometimes hearing the way other people do it gets me to try to do that new thing that they've explained that I haven't tried and never would and often I don't have the same hardware or plugins or whatever and/or I screw up or misinterpret what they're explaining and that's when I come across something new that I'll continue to use or at least learn from despite it possibly being not exactly what they intended. Nawmean?

[br0d]

I tend to read forums in order to gain an edge, not to replace the work. I would hope that most people are not posting when they could be in the studio instead, that's sorta like sitting around bonging protein shakes instead of lifting weights.