Amnesia lane time - an Eventide question

[Gone Fission]

Welcome, Dave!

I asked around these parts a few months ago about the abuse of one of your old designs, the analog sections of the H-3000 Harmonizer. I've learned that Brian Eno and Eno-hater Ani DiFranco both enjoy distorting the analog section of these boxes. But I have no idea what this sounds like, and neither did anyone else on this board. Any insight?

And as long as we're on Eventides, any further insight? The march of time has brought used prices down, so while I want scoop one up, I'd like to scoop up a primo version.

Bear

[Dave Derr]

BEAR

H3000 CLIPPING?

Dang... I know Brian Eno (among lots of others) really loved those boxes but this is the first I ever heard about clipping the front end! There isnt any soft clippers in that Analog to Digital Converter really. I used a multiiplying Dac to control the gain digitally but the converters were a dual slope integrator chip from Sony. That converter put out a really good 15 and a half bits lol, and actually sounded really good. It also didnt use FIR filters which are the oversampling converters that everyone uses today, which i often wonder about. FIR Filters NEVER happen naturally i dont believe. But then niether did the 9th order analog Lowpass filters we used in the H3000! Ninth order filters by the way have a drop off rate of 54 dB per octave! The steepest Neve Filter ive seen is a 3rd order at 18dB per octave.

Im thinking here of how the H3000 front end clipped and I dont particularly remember it being smooth lol. I do know that i never let really nasty clipping occur - such as where there was a phase reversal or nasty spiky glitch. We used pre-emphasis and de-emphasis in those units which mite account for some of the smooth clipping, since the harmonics would be smoothed somewhat by the low pass affect of the high frequency de-emphasis after the output DAC. Analog tape recorders use emphasis. Hmmmm Interesting. Bringing back some memories too. Richard Factor, Ken Bogdanowicz, and Bob Belcher are some of my favorite characters in the world and taught me most of what I know about engineering.

Get any of the H3000's cuz they are all upgradeable to the H3500 which had Ken B's Mod Factory programs. Or you can just start with the 3500. BTW, that is still my first choice for harmonizing and some affects even tho its now 4 generations old. It had to do with getting the interface right!

Thats an interesting question, Bear. Thanks

[Gone Fission]

Hmm, maybe we need a hardcore Eno-phile to give us hints on where we can find tracks where that sound is used. I have no idea at all what it's supposed to sound like, other than the fact that it distorts. When the T-O interview mentioned that you designed the analog part of the Harmonizers, the old bit of info came back to me and I got interested in it. When the right price comes up on ebay, I'm sure I'll explore in depth.

Bear

[doug_hti]

good to have you here Dave. I first became aware of Distressors in 99 when I was around David Leornard (engineer/mixer/producer) on a project for a month. He seemed to use them on quite a lot and bring them wherever he was tracking/mixing. Any way, good work.

Can I butt in a bit. I actually want to get a good vocal harmonizer, and am intrigued by you saying that the 3500 is your favorite.....If I'm doing a lot of sessions at 96k, is it worth it to do the AD/DA for running the older 3500 rather than getting an Eclsipse, 7000, or Orville. I'm looking for bang for your buck with no compromise.....

Look forward to your posts this month!

cheers

[Dave Derr]

Doug
Harmonizers (TM EVENTIDE)

Well, I would be be way out of line to recommend an H3000 over some of the modern units and plug ins. Currently I dont have a high definition Protools system... and that is probably where you are doing you work.

I will say this tho... the Eclipse and Orville are great designs in the tradition of Eventide Harmonizing. BUT...Wave Mechanics is owned by Ken Bogdanowicz who did the original H3000 and DSP4000 along with Bob Belcher (a major engineer at Wave Mechanics) and myself. Wave Mechanics has this program called UltraTools which I have heard and is really really amazing. I'm prejudiced but I think other folks would back me up on the sound quality of this software.

Could we get a few opinions on modern Pitch Shifting, Pitch Correction and digital thickening?? What software and hardware do some of you think kicks glutamus maximus?

[spacebass]

Dang... I know Brian Eno (among lots of others) really loved those boxes but this is the first I ever heard about clipping the front end!.......

Im thinking here of how the H3000 front end clipped and I dont particularly remember it being smooth lol. I do know that i never let really nasty clipping occur - such as where there was a phase reversal or nasty spiky glitch.

hi dave....and damn i hope your kidding!

the very first thing i do whenever i get some new gear is to hit it so hard it just fuzzez out to see what kind of creative/limitations it might have......and all i got to say is that the h3000 loves all kinds of sources hiting it hard.......

as for how it sounds when you slam it....well it is a bit "harsh" er i mean "sweet" ......just depends on what yer after.


peace and chicken grease

[Rader Ranch]

Wave Mechanics PitchBlender and TimeBlender are both great plugs...and i still prefer their 'old' PurePitch (using manual automation) to Autotune or the like (for fixing pitch in an unnoticeable way, not for the pop effect)...i can't compare them to an H3000 though...

[doug_hti]

Originally posted by Dave Derr
Doug
Harmonizers (TM EVENTIDE)

Yes, yes, abusing the trademark, my apologies, urrgghh, I mean "pitch changers".

Thanks for the info Dave. Yes I am running a HD rig and will look into the plugins. I already have Pitch Doctor by wave mechanics, even though I use pitch correction very rarely, it is a good plug with a ridiculous amount of processing delay.
I'm going to look into the other Wave Mechanic's stuff, I just want to start getting more hardware that is road friendly as well.