Waves Doubler+S1

[Yiannis]

Charles,would you please tell me if I can have the same results with these two plugs in addition to the ones you use?
for that eventide fx and for widening my mixes.

thank you.

[Shan]

I use the wave doubler for the eventide 910 effect.Works great. I used it on an entire album and everything else I do.

Shane

[Yiannis]

Has anyone compare these two?
DUY - Waves S1

[Charles Dye]

I haven't actually tried doubler yet, but if Shane says it works, I'm sure it does. Re S1 I haven't used it in a long time, I'll try to use it today + tell you what I think. Anyone else compare S1 to DUY Wide?

[krid]

Yes I tried S1 and Duy Wide and I prefer Duy Wide : it is much better in my opinion.
Duy Wide does a great job into widening a mix in a natural way and he has this analog sound.

[Yiannis]

Charles, what settings are you use on WIDE?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Yiannis
Charles,would you please tell me if I can have the same results with these two plugs in addition to the ones you use?
for that eventide fx and for widening my mixes.

thank you.

Hi,

I am not Charles but i can tell you that if you want wider mixes, putting all of these spatializers over everything will make it feel wider, but it will be less forward.

You will lose the impact that you've worked hard to achieve.

To compensate i think what people do to is compress and EQ everthing which in my opinions makes it worse because you are adding even more phase shifts.

The secret to wider mixes is

1) Excellent phase relationships with your tracks

2) Minimizing as much phase shifts

3) Panning and placement-not panning everything so wide

4) EQ

Spatializers are one of your bullets in your gun when mixing. So is panning on the outsides and center and auto pan effects.

If you over do these your mixes will have no where else to go(since you've eaten all of the 2 dimensional field). The equivalent of this will be either a small mix or a Left-Right mix with no punch.

I think Spatialization is cool when used sparingly.

It can place things further outside(for clarity) or to push things further back(for perspective).

Also you can use it to exagerate certain lines in verses. Maybe have the main lead in the middle and on a certain word or phrase push it on the out ( I do this sometimes by putting the phrase thourgh a phaser and sending that to the spatializer).

Also Spatializers work best with hi freq material(ie perc,shakers and hats).

The low's if you are not careful can start to swim.

I like the Behringer Edison a lot for this. You can tune in the lows when using this effect.

My 2 cents.

[Yiannis]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hi,

The secret to wider mixes is

1) Excellent phase relationships with your tracks

2) Minimizing as much phase shifts

phase relationships between L/R of stereo tracks or individual tracks?

How do you check it?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Yiannis
phase relationships between L/R of stereo tracks or individual tracks?

How do you check it?

Yes and Yes.

How do yo check?

Pan and EQ a lot of the song in mono.

You will hear where the "holes" are and where the track best "sits".

That way when you do a Spatialization trick or a Pseudo double it definitely jump out and make the mixes appear huge.

[Yiannis]

What I don't understand is how to hear panning in mono.

[strauss]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor

To compensate i think what people do to is compress and EQ everthing which in my opinions makes it worse because you are adding even more phase shifts.

I was wondering how to measure these phase shifts between different eq's?
Do you take a sine and look at the amount shifted on a scope?
I assume it differs at the frequency range.


And have you tried using those 'linear phase' eq's to prevent these shifts?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Yiannis
What I don't understand is how to hear panning in mono.

When panning in mono i am listening for where the track will best sit and still be heard. This is crucial for a song that has alot of instruments and you are looking for all the instruments to be heard clearly.

Also you can hear the masking going on when EQing.

If you can hear all of the instruments clearly in mono than it will only sound better in stereo.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by strauss
I was wondering how to measure these phase shifts between different eq's?
Do you take a sine and look at the amount shifted on a scope?
I assume it differs at the frequency range.


And have you tried using those 'linear phase' eq's to prevent these shifts?

I just do it by ear.

I tried using the Waves linear EQ's but wasn't that crazy with the results(i just needed more time with it).

I tend to use the tighter EQ's(less phase shifts) on drums and bass.

The more colored one's(more phase shifts) i use for effects and colors.

The trick is the midrange and hi's.

This is the crucial area and sometimes a mixture of both is called for.

Problem is sometimes you have to "steal from Peter to pay Paul" as they say. One sometimes takes away from the other(masking), so then maybe not using EQ is called for.

Maybe using an enhancer on part of the sections or a colored comp is the answer.

[Charles Dye]

Originally posted by Yiannis
Charles, what settings are you use on WIDE?

Yiannis,

My starting point settings are:

Input: -4 dB
Boost: On
Freq: 1088 Hz
Boost: 9% (this is something I've been doing differently for awhile)
Amount: 17-23% (to taste)

Since I have this plug last in the chain, its output determines my level to disk. So, just before bouncing I clear the peak margins (by clicking the numbers underneath the output meters). I play the track top to bottom. The peak margins now tell me how much I can raise Wide's Input. If they say -2.3 dB, I'll raise the Input by 2 dB, giving myself a ceiling when I bounce of 0.3 dB.

Hope this helps.

[WildCowboys]

another amazing hardware tool for stereo widening is the spl vitalizer´s stereo-expander. in general i do not use any stereo expansion, i seldom feel there is need for it, but if i do the vitalizer is great tool. it can be used separately from the vitalizer´s enhancement circuit btw...

rock on,
pat