Hey, Peter Pan...

[Mike Jasper]

I've been working on a mix for this pop-rock-retro song "Hey, Peter Pan" and since Charles offered to comment on mixes, I'm throwing it up here.

It's pretty much a 70s type song (most of mine are, but I call it Americana to fake that modern touch). The only thing not 70s is the snare, which is definitely an 80s feel.

I used Telecaster for the hooky riff that comes at the end of the intro.(twango, twango, twank.) Used another Telecaster track for some rhythm. Used a Les Paul for the short lead break, and another rhythm. Bass, drums (Ric Furley on that), Fat Strat for slide guitar.

Used a tambo in some parts, as well as a cowbell to imitate the clock sound that comes from the crocodile chasing down Captain Hook. (Basically, this is a song about the Peter Pan Syndrome -- or male midlife crisis -- but I use as many metaphors from the story of Peter Pan as possible. So the Crock represents age, Hook represents death, Wendy the ex-wife, Tinker Bell youth, bla, bla, bla.)

And I got this all into a 2:20 song. Something to be said for that.

Guitars were tracked through a Drawmer 1969 from SM57s for the retro sound. Vocals were tracked through a Neumann U87, to Great River Preamp, to 1176. Everything goes through an Apogee PSX100, so I only track two channels at once.

Drums were recorded live, then SoundReplaced. I close mic the kick and the snare on two separate tracks, then Ric overdubs cymbals and toms. He's good and he's patient.

The lead vocal is a scratch, a hand-held U87 at omni position, to Great River, to 1176.

Guess that's enough of a setup, huh Charles? I'd like to know if the bass is out enough, if the gutairs are too dry, if the snare is too loud, and if the damn thing works at all.

http://www.deceptivesound.com/PeterPan.mp3

Jasper
PS -- (Hey, Peter Pan Copyright 2004 by Mike Jasper) Old habits die hard.

[ixnys]

I would have to comment on the vocals. I know you said it was a scratch so I'm sure you'll take care of what I'm about to say. You can hardly make out ANYTHING he says except for when he says "peter pan whatcha gonna do." So I would definitely work on annunciation because everything seems blurred and slurred together.

Everything else seemed alright...but it's hard to comment when the vocals aren't finished yet.

[Mike Jasper]

Everything else seemed alright...but it's hard to comment when the vocals aren't finished yet.

Yeah, you're right. But lead vocals are the one thing I know will work out fine. I'm more concerned about the mix as a whole.

Besides, the vocal placement was well thought out, so if y'all treat this like you're listening to something in a foreign language, you'll get the gestalt. Maybe not the lyrics, but the sound.

That said, if lyrics are important to the picture, here are the words:

Hey, Peter Pan

Never never land
To the great abyss
Drinking herbal tea
With a Jr. Miss
Might as well have been
Any other babe
They all seem the same
To me anyway

Chorus:
There goes the knight
Into middleage
Lyin' in the dark
Flyin' in a rage
Hey, Peter Pan
Watchya gonna do
Wendy took the kids
Tinker Bell is doomed.

Think I'll fly away
To another shore
You know I pulled that trick
Many times before
Mr. Crockodile
Swallowed up my time
I hear the tickin' tock
Sneakin' from behind.

Repeat Chorus

Rockin' to the beat
Back in '64
Then the joker came and
Rocked me out the door
Wendy always said
It would end like this
No more wallowin'
In the future tense.

Repeat Chorus

Just thought of something. The lack of lyrical clarity could also be an EQ problem. After all, what's to annunciate in the opening line, "Never never land." No hard consonants there.

Jasper

[Shan]

I like the track. Nice retro sound. I thought the guitar that does the shots behind the verses could come up. If you listen to the first guitar shot in verse 2 it sounds great, nice tone and nice level but then they kind of get wimpy and brings down the energy of the song. I know the vox are scratch. The words seem all slured together and it doesn't sound like its in english. Also thought the cowbell was a little loud in intro. I like the clean tone of the singer. Bass seems a bit low in my NS-10s. Or maybe its an eq thing. Hard to tell. Love the shaker at the end. Adds to the song. Cant wait to hear your next mix of this track. I was tappin' my foot.

Shane

[Mike Jasper]

Shane writes:

I like the track. Nice retro sound. I thought the guitar that does the shots behind the verses could come up. If you listen to the first guitar shot in verse 2 it sounds great, nice tone and nice level but then they kind of get wimpy and brings down the energy of the song. I know the vox are scratch. The words seem all slured together and it doesn't sound like its in english. Also thought the cowbell was a little loud in intro. I like the clean tone of the singer. Bass seems a bit low in my NS-10s. Or maybe its an eq thing. Hard to tell. Love the shaker at the end.

Excellent analysis! Gave me a lot to think about.

Thanks, Shane. Especially the guitar comments. Didn't really notice that at all.

Jasper

Something in the first gtr solo break makes the whole track seem to veer badly out of time - that needs fixing.

Out of the JCMellencamp shool or rock....?

Perhaps if you cut more verse words short to let the snare "pop through" more often it would make it more toe tapping.. Slurr less... or pick and choose your times carefully..view that vocal timing groove as a "pop science". Work it.

[Jose Mrochek]

Drums on the intro have some timing issues. I like the guitar tones!! And the song, well aranged everything seems to be in place and nothing is exagerated or in need of. But yeah, the timing on the intro (the drums only part) made me nervous

[Mike Jasper]

Yeah, there are definitely timing issues here. Started this song a couple of years ago on OS9 when I couldn't figure out how to use a midi click track. Pretty much gave up on it because of those timing problems, but heard it a month ago and thought, damn, I really like the guitar sounds. Now I'm trying to see if I can salvage this.

Won't be easy. Guess I'll have to set up bars and beats to whatever I think might be right on the tempo (it's looking like 136... at times) and line it all up. If anybody has any good ideas about this, I'd be eager to hear them.

Thanks for the comments,

Jasper
PS -- The timing issues aren't Ric the drummer's fault, it's Jasper the soundreplacer's fault.

[djui5]

I think it needs more cowbell...................................... ..

[Jose Mrochek]

since your drums are very basic straight forward, I would suggest you making loops of the best played bars and copy , paste, copy paste.. you will keep some of the feel and have good timing. thats what we are doing with my album. I still think good timing is more important than good feel. It would be nice to have both, but if I had to chose.. I rather go with timing.

[Mike Jasper]

You're right, Jose. Cutting and pasting is what I'm doing right now.

As to the cowbell, I'm not sold on the sound of mine. Anyboddy got an awesome 24-bit, 44.1hz cowbell sound they'd like to send me?

Jasper

Re timing issues, just isolate where the few very audible ones are and which player is making it sound 'off' and just go in and carefully edit that.

No need to 'grid' it all...

Keep overall feel / performance, fix a few 'trouble spots'.

[studjo]

why did you soundreplace the drums?
for a retro sound I'd take the real drums.
It's quite strange for me to hear such a nice guitar sound and then a drum-sound that seems to come out off an Alesis D4

Just a thought

Jo

[Jose Mrochek]

Hey Jasper, if you get that cowbell can you send it to me to ??? Thanks : )

[Mike Jasper]

why did you soundreplace the drums?
for a retro sound I'd take the real drums.
It's quite strange for me to hear such a nice guitar sound and then a drum-sound that seems to come out off an Alesis D4

Don't really have much choice. I've only got two channels in and a very small room. But I'll be sure to tell Ric (the drummer) that he was compared to an Alesis D4. He'll likely take it as a compliment.

And the reason I'm limited to two channels is because I want to run everything in through the two-channel Apogee converters.

The always cogent Jules writes:

Re timing issues, just isolate where the few very audible ones are and which player is making it sound 'off' and just go in and carefully edit that. No need to 'grid' it all... Keep overall feel / performance, fix a few 'trouble spots'.

Yep, that's the conclusion I came to as well. Besides, again I have no choice. The verse is in one tempo, the chorus in another. The intro was easy to fix, but the glitch you pointed out happened to be a misaligned rhythm guitar. Go figure.

Here's the great news. I gave up on this song around the time I first entered GearSlutz, when Charles Dye did his first guest moderator gig here. Putting the song away for a year and a half turned out to be a great idea, since I've learned so much here and I'm getting so much help from all y'all.

Thanks, guys.

Jasper