18th April 2004
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#1 | | Gear interested
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
Thread Starter | Guitar Fizz
When mixing heavy distorted guitars, how do you suggest getting rid of the fizz without destroying the presence? Basically, I play with the lowpass and try to add some mid/upper mids but it's always a struggle to really dial it in. Any tips?
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18th April 2004
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#2 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Mar 2004 Location: London
Posts: 282
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Try a low pass at 10 or 11k. But really it is in the recording phase. Move the mic away from the centre of the cone for less top end as a rule. Remember that most of the guitar tone is in the mid frequencies. By boosting something there you might reduce the fizz.
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18th April 2004
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#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Maryland,USA
Posts: 3,849
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I find eq to be of little help when this happens. You need something like the Cranesong Phoenix or the Analog Channel stuff that effects the overall character. and yea, getting it right on the way in makes it all better!
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18th April 2004
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#4 | | Gear addict
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Echo Park, Los Angeles |
Mesa Double/Triple Rectifiers = FIZZ. Well... that's been the story of the project I'm, working on right now. The gtr players suck all the midrange out, boost the top and bottom almost all the way and crank the gain. Sounds good in the room with the amp, but that's Fletcher-Munson doing the work for ya. Miced in the CR it sounds like absolute ass.
My workaround has been lowering gain and bass on the amp (don't let the guitar player see you..) and I'm also running a JCM800 at the same time for some real midrange. It's still a balancing act because they want a big guitar sound, but scooped mids! Double/Triple tracking can be your friend. LP helps the fizz, but can make the guitars to dark. You want them in your face. Gotta try the analog channel...
Kinda went off topic...
Ian
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19th April 2004
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,716
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Ribbon mics or something else fat sounding. Low passing guitars makes them dull.
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21st April 2004
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#6 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2003 Location: solar system
Posts: 961
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I have the same issues micing a mesa studio preamp, 50/50 power amp and a recto 4/12. In the room, cranking the gain and treble knobs sound great, but when you mic it then it becomes too much fizz. The best way to deal with this, I've found, is to EQ out the fizz on the amp. May seem to kill the sound a bit to reduce the treble/upper mids, but makes the recording more tolerable. I also use the hi/lo console EQ on the ghost, which can act like high/low pass filters to some degree....
This is also where analog tape comes in handy - a mild automatic high end flattener. Digital makes it all apparent, in a less than glorious way.... |
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21st April 2004
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#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6,661
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I wouldn't mess with the guitar head.....if it's set the way the player likes it then leave it alone...don't change that to make up for your recording.
First task is to find the speaker you like the best....then use some good mic's and adjust the placement untill you get it where you want it.
Then if there's still problems then subtractive EQ'ing is your friend....
I wouldn't use a low pass filter...that's crazy. I find a lot of times I like more air on everything...and low pass filtering would kill that. I'd say find the freq that's bothering you and cut it out...
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22nd April 2004
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#8 | | Gearslutz.com admin
Joined: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK |
Fatso Jnr is what I use...
That and a Royer 121
PT / digital picks up WAY too much of the nasty 'paper tear' fizz |
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22nd April 2004
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#9 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,739
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Could somebody post an mp3 of a guitar with fizz. I think I know what you're talking about, but I'd rather hear so I definitely know what you're talking about.
Jasper
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22nd April 2004
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#10 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden
Posts: 79
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i like lowpassing around 6-9k and then boosting above the lowpass, like around 15k and up.
Kills the guitarfizz without dulling it!
/mike
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22nd April 2004
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Hollywood
Posts: 3,633
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Try scooping discretely at 8/9k. Then add a gentle hi shelf at 15/16k, just for some air or presence.
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22nd April 2004
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#12 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Mar 2004 Location: London
Posts: 282
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Try recording a split from the guitar before the amp as well as the mic just getting the clean di guitar. Then when the fizz offender has left the studio you can re-amp the guitar. He'll probably take all the credit for a great tone, but at least you will have a good sound for the mix.
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22nd April 2004
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#13 | | Gear addict
Joined: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands (yes that's the country surrounding Amsterdam!)
Posts: 484
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22nd April 2004
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#14 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Austria
Posts: 950
| Me too - makes the guitars sound so dirrrty. |
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23rd April 2004
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#15 | | Gear addict
Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 324
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If you have a chance Charles could you chime in on this subject as well please.
How do you treat those "huge" rectifier sounds. How do you bring out the clarity and remove the hiss. How about compression? Since compression already takes place from the amps when the guitars are this overdriven, do you think there is still a need for compression in the mix?
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23rd April 2004
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#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Maryland,USA
Posts: 3,849
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If I may say. I think you might be over thinking it. 90% of the sound is player, amp, mic and placement. To think about "treatments" sounds like band aids to me. Unless of course you're trying to salvage tracks that can't be re-recorded. I would focus on the front end first. Experiment with guitars, amps, and placement etc.
drew
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24th April 2004
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#17 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 885
| Lately I've been trying to add "fizz" in mixing... |
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24th April 2004
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#18 | | Gear addict
Joined: Oct 2003 Location: $%^f%$^%
Posts: 328
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maybe using that old cassete deck which is collecting dust like "effect" insert on already DAW-ed guitars is nice idea (if nothing better is present -2 track,4 track whutever )
that fizz is mostly high freq metallic spiky transients and tape sets em "back" ,so overall freq balance seems to be more relaxed.
not enuff high freq detal after that ? No prob ,thats whut high shelf eq is for eh .
If there's no way to monitor tape sound from playback head ,maybe adding timing spike at the start of each section could speed up nudging that old-skooled track back where it should be .
playing bit with input level wouldnt hurt either ...
some synth sounds like this too |
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24th April 2004
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#19 | | Gear interested
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
Thread Starter |
After viewing my guitar tracks with a spectrum analyzer, I noticed some tiny peaks. One at 6k, 7k and around 10k. I used a very narrow, deep, cut at these frequencies and it definetly seems to help. Just wondering how everyone elese deals with this problem.
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24th April 2004
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#20 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2003 Location: Beautiful NYC
Posts: 1,270
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Sometimes this crops up. High end nearly-white-noise fizz that is wrong for the sound and is impossible to address at the 5 or 6k where it resides without muffling the presence.
Of course, hopefully we don't ever record anything with this serious a flaw. But if this is what we're working with... Here's a tip from a mix engineer in Australia. He sat in on a session with a mastering engineer and brought back this pointer. When the mastering engineer ran across the same problem, he didn't address it where the main fizz seemed to be happening, he went a wee bit lower. He took a nice eq, dialed in a paper thin slice and fished around 4k. That did it. Whether this pushes down some illogically non-properly-divisible root tone of "fizz" or whatever the reason, this trick works.
Add this trick to your bag, and don't forget to buy any visiting Australian mix engineer's a pint.
Cheers.
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24th April 2004
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#21 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 3,897
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For distorted guitars I tend to highpass @ 100-300 hz and low pass @ 4-8 K, sometimes adding a wide, subtle lift in the 2-4K range. This will both help separate the bass from the guitar and also allow the vocals to sit above the guitars in the mix. Distorted guitars are already so compressed they rarely need treatment, but I do like a little small room reverb sometimes... |
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24th April 2004
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#22 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2003 Location: united states
Posts: 627
| Quote: Originally posted by xyz After viewing my guitar tracks with a spectrum analyzer, I noticed some tiny peaks. One at 6k, 7k and around 10k. I used a very narrow, deep, cut at these frequencies and it definetly seems to help. Just wondering how everyone elese deals with this problem. | --------------------------------------------------------------
thats exactly what i do - except i dont use a spectral analizer. plugs that get stupid narrow for me are filterbank b1 , sony oxford ( in type 2 mode) , and the tc eq sat. sometimes you can carve out as much as 20 db and it will not deter the gtr sound. low pass for me wouldn't work. high pass on gtrs are an everyday thing.
s
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25th April 2004
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#23 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,739
| Quote: |
high pass on gtrs are an everyday thing.
| Glad somebody brought that up.
Jasper
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