Big vs. Small Studios

[mtsupiano]

Interesting....I am in very close to the same situation. I am very close to graduation at MTSU, so I feel it necessary to start looking for a job in a studio in Nashville. While I would love to work on "big time" stuff, I think I might get sick of the studio climate. On the other hand, working at a smaller studio might not give the chance for advancement.

I really don't know...

Andrew

[Bob Olhsson]

Interning at a large studio is no-brainer the only way to go to me. Our industry is all about relationships and the relationships you make while interning are likely to determine the direction your career will ultimately take. You're going to meet a lot more people in a large studio complex.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Interning at a large studio is no-brainer the only way to go to me. Our industry is all about relationships and the relationships you make while interning are likely to determine the direction your career will ultimately take. You're going to meet a lot more people in a large studio complex.

That's the up side. On the down side, you may (or may not) actually get to operate the gear on a regular basis.

[Raw-Tracks]

Having gone through it myself, I would have to agree with Bob. You really are better off interning at a larger studio. Exposure is key. If you are interning at a larger facility, you will get to meet 2-3 times more people than in a small studio. Yes, you probably get a little more hands on time in a small studio, but not really that much more. Unfortunately, at least in Nashville, it is more about WHO you know, rather than WHAT you know.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by erick21
Unfortunately, at least in Nashville, it is more about WHO you know, rather than WHAT you know.

A better way to put it is that it's about who KNOWS what you know and what you can do.

Nobody ever wants to work with a new person as their first choice but deadlines occasionally force them to try somebody new. Second choice will always be somebody they've known as an assistant or intern who is recommended by their first choice. Third choice will generally be a friend's recommendation. It's all word of mouth.

[Jose Mrochek]

If you guys need hands on experience, buy a 001 and record your friends at home. You are way better off and more productive serving coffee and food at a big studio, for a few months. Even though you will probably feel you wasted your time going to school and then have to go on food runs, it will pay off. Guaranteed. Most of the who is who started this way, and theres a good reason behind it. You will be among the priveledged if you land an intership at a big place.

[mtsupiano]

Joe,

I have been really lucky in the respect of recording. In the past 9 months I have done 3 EPs and 2 three song demos. All of these I have taken to studios in Nashville. I don't think it is my experience that is holding me back...I just need to figure out in what type of studio I will be happiest.

As always, Mr. Olhsson has a point...its not what you know, but who you know. Well wish me luck, the applications will go out next week.

andrew

[Jules]

At a large studio 'complex' you might be taking out the trash for a year before you get to do even copy room duties..

Ask during the interviews for "past examples of advancement" at the facility.

"Well Hector here spent one year on weekend and night reception duties, then moved over to the copy room and has been there for 3 years!"

Run for the hills!

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by Jules
Ask during the interviews for "past examples of advancement" at the facility.

A good idea!

Also beware of what I call the "intern mills" that exploit lots of interns with a huge percentage never getting another job in the industry. By "big studio," I was thinking of a 3 or 4 room facility that does a lot of major label work.

[jon]

Having the right people on the sessions is just as important for a studio as having the right gear IMHO.

For that reason, even in a large complex, if they are on the ball a good intern will be noticed and eventually moved up to the path of in-house training to be assistant engineer, first on sessions no one else wants to assist, then on to better and better projects.

Being competent technically is important, but the qualities that really distinguish the better interns IMHO are good people skills, being likable, responsible, available, proactive but discreet, helpful, willing to work from the bottom up, and having a good attitude.

I would also ask the studio personnel manager to let you know asap should they come to the conclusion that you don't have the qualities they are looking for to move you up in their facility.

Maybe only one of six interns we take on end up having real potential in-house, but those people get identified and moved up fairly quickly. The others are let go by the end of their first month. Sometimes if someone is a borderline case where they've been trained here but we're not quite confident on them we'll recommend them to another studio or producer and they get a job there (that happened twice last year and again this month). Sometimes we lose a really good guy to a bigger studio or a freelance engineer, which is fine. That's the nature of the job, to get noticed and be able to follow new opportunities.

Best of luck.

[Two Left Hands]

I really appreciate all of the feedback. It has really helped me. I was asking people like my family and friends and they really didn't help me. It is really helpful to get advice for people who have been through it, going through it, and seen people go through it. Thanks again! I let you all know how it turns out in the next few weeks.

[Jose Mrochek]

I forgot a very important part Two left hands. The "women" factor.
You are way better off trying to pick up a girl when you say "hey baby, I had lunch today with so and so "BIG NAME" (please don't mention you picked up the food) rather than "hey baby, today i ran my first recording session all by myself. Knowing famous people makes good conversations with girls. At least that worked for me a couple of times... when I was an intern. Take note of this..

[jazzius II]

Go go Big studio - if you're keen, you'll get your hands dirty soon enough

There's nothing worse then spending all week in a small studio with a muppet who doesn't know his arse from his elbow - been there, done that

I'm sure you know this already, but going into a big studio on the lowest rung means working ridiculous hours for minimal recompense......possibly for years....if you're good, it'll be worth it.

[Dave Martin]

Without disagreeing with the other posts, who things that the old paradigm of interning, moving to being an assistant, and then taking the reins as an engineer when the regular guy can't make it is still viable in this day and age?

[Shan]

Personally I'd go straight to the source. Find a top engineer and pay him for one on one instruction. Thats what I did. I was very surprised to find out that most of these guys would love to train someone and show you the ropes. They'll take you to sessions, their personal studio etc. and you will really learn by doing. Depending on who you are with and what you know you could also get work out of it like mixing sessions, engineering etc. Why wait around and waste time when you can get right in there. Take the thousands you'll spend in school and got straight to the guys who are mixing and engineering for their careers.

I went to music college to continue my studies in music but for engineering I went straight to the guys who are doing it in big studios. Saved alot of time and money.

Shane

[CrazyBeast]

If I was in your shoes I would try to find out what the output of those studios is like - style of music, quality, variety. That would tell you a lot about what working there would be like, and the type of people you'd be meeting. I would factor that heavily into the decision...

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
who things that the old paradigm of interning, moving to being an assistant, and then taking the reins as an engineer when the regular guy can't make it is still viable in this day and age?

Well my stepson made it into the camera local in Hollywood exactly that way a couple years ago.

Another common scenario is assistants recording their friends using open time and one of the friends makes it big taking the assistant along as a free-lance first. You're lots more likely to meet that kind of a friend working in a big studio or attending a serious music school than in a small facility or a recording school.

[OKden]

Who you know can get you in the door, but it's what you know will keep you from being replaced at the end of the term. The "what you know" category should include social skills as well as technical skills. I see studios as a service industry, not much different than running a restaurant.

As far as big vs. small, I'd go to where the most work/experience is. In these days of producer owned studios (especially in Nashville), many of the "small rooms" are where the work is.

I think Shane's is a great idea.

[cajonezzz]

Originally posted by Shan
Personally I'd go straight to the source. Find a top engineer and pay him for one on one instruction. Thats what I did. I was very surprised to find out that most of these guys would love to train someone and show you the ropes. They'll take you to sessions, their personal studio etc. and you will really learn by doing. Depending on who you are with and what you know you could also get work out of it like mixing sessions, engineering etc. Why wait around and waste time when you can get right in there. Take the thousands you'll spend in school and got straight to the guys who are mixing and engineering for their careers.


Shane

This is absolutely spot on advice in my book....

If I could do it over again, I would have taken all the $$$ I spent in school (M.I. in the early eighties) and gone straight to the players that were doing what I aspired to do. You can study privately with guys/gals and make so much more headway in your chosen field.
Be a self starter.
Understanding the tech aspects of the job and having your chops together in your chosen field being a given: (i hope)....
The message your getting here about relationships can not be stressed enough. Your career will blossom exponentially with careful attention to relationships. People hire and work with who they know and trust in this biz.
They hire on recommendations,not resmume's. This is key. Respect this and search for that wing to get under. Do the same for others comming up behind you.

Be focused on where you want your career to go.
Prepare a brief "mission statement" for your potential employer/internship.Review it a year later. Be proactive. Read minds.Enjoy the process. Be a sponge...work harder/faster/smarter than your superior expects, be a good human being, and you WILL be marked for advancement.

Jump at the chance to take the "less glamorus sessions" and be damn sure your prepared the day you get tossed into the "hot seat".

[Jose Mrochek]

Paying someone for one on one learning is surely a great thing. But the school "experience" is priceless. I did the year recording program at Fullsail, in Florida. And I would put it down as the best year of my life. The idea of being sorrounded by people your same age with the same questions, and worries.. made me feel I was not the only crazy guy in this world that wanted to do music for a living. I was very pleased to know I wasn't the only one. Kind of like a AA meeting. I don't know about other schools but Fullsail, goes through great lengths in the job placement department. It was mainly through them that I got the intership at Crescent Moon studios. I don't know how I would have done so without their help. I am not talking about how much I actually learned there, I think I learned more in a week reading this forum and Charles articles anyways. But I had a great time at school, I would do it again in heart beat.