Soft Reverbs

tee boy · 16th April 2004, 04:55 PM

Charles,
I know this is probably a OLD topic around these parts... but, I was interested to hear your thoughts on convolution reverbs. I know many feel that soft reverbs are still no where near the quality of their hardware equivalents, even highly regarded examples like Reverb 1. Do you think that convolution verbs will ever take the place of hardware units? I have some PCM91 impulses that sound really nice, but unfortunately no Lexicon at my home studio to do a fair comparison. Do you reckon you could pick out a convolves impulse against the real thing? How about in the middle of a mix?

Ruairi · 17th April 2004, 03:55 PM

Tee Boy,

at my studio my main reverb is Altiverb. I have no hardware reverb. When I moved to HD and my new rig I decided against any hardware boxes and I don't regret it. I use up to 4 instances of Alti and sometimes Reverb 1 (which is ok) and sometimes even Dverb or Renverb (for something deliberately crap). I have probably spent 18k since my big 50k refit last year and i have never felt the need to prioritise a hardware reverb.

BTW I mix in the box and move between songs a lot so the convenience of a plug in verb suits me, there are many others here that would rather die than do without hardware reverb. I would be looking at top shelf units ala M6000/Lex 960 if I was ever to make the move.

As ever YMMV,

cheers,
Ruairi

Charles Dye · 18th April 2004, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tee boy
Do you think that convolution verbs will ever take the place of hardware units? I have some PCM91 impulses that sound really nice, but unfortunately no Lexicon at my home studio to do a fair comparison. Do you reckon you could pick out a convolves impulse against the real thing? How about in the middle of a mix?

tee boy,

My answer to the first question is a pretty confident yes. Convolution technology does seem to be the way the hardware + software reverb industry is going.

Then there's the universal PT question of does a plug sound like the real thing. I think that's given too much importance + is not the issue. Does the gear used three generations ago sound like the gear used two? Nope, not at all. Manufactures are always trying to improve their products, the way we make records evolves, and so do our sounds. That's the way it's always been. Plugs are just the latest box to come along + influence what we do.

For me, the real question is never does the plug-in sound like the real thing. Cause @ some level the answer will almost always be no. Who cares. Does Neve sound like SSL? Does tube gear sound like solid-state? Does analog recording sound like digital? No. No. And no. Your exact question was debated a generation ago when digital reverb debuted. Did it sound like acoustic (chamber) or analog (plate) reverb. Actually, interestingly enough, not even close. But to some engineers the answer was, it sounded better.

We are @ the same place with a new technology. (The more things change, the more they stay the same.) I find investing time deciding if plugs sound like the real thing as wasted. The real question has always been do I like the sound of the plug-in? Does it give me the results I'm looking for? For the plugs I use the answer is an absolute yes.

Do plug-ins sound like the real thing? No, some sound better. Does convolution reverb sound like the real thing? (which, btw the "real thing" in your question isn't actually real) I don't think it matters. Does it sound good to you? And your answer is already they sound, "really nice". I think that's the only answer you need.

Hope this helps.

karl · 18th April 2004, 12:50 PM

Charles. I noticed from your HDL articles that you used Lexiverb a lot. I am still on OS9, even though I bought OSX and V6 of Pro Tools, because I like this plugin so much. I do use Reverb One as well, but really like the Lexiverb. What are your preferences for plugin reverbs now you no longer have Lexiverb - and how do they compare? Will there ever be another Lexicon plugin to your knowledge?

tee boy · 19th April 2004, 01:13 AM

Im pretty sure Eventide have a couple of TDM plugs coming out. Not exactly an answer to your question, but who knows they might be way better?

Thanks for the reply Charles. I have to agree with you tbh, it seems like people spend way to much time comparing plugs to original hardware. Like you say, if it sounds hot who cares how close an emulation it is. The reason i ask this about convo reverbs, is that iv heard alot of conflicting info and i was interested to hear what someone like yourself thought. I use Voxengo's Pristine Space. I find with the impulses i have it sounds good. I also love using it for wacky sound design stuff!

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16th April 2004, 04:55 PM	#1
tee boy Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Staffs, UK Posts: 135	Soft Reverbs Charles, I know this is probably a OLD topic around these parts... but, I was interested to hear your thoughts on convolution reverbs. I know many feel that soft reverbs are still no where near the quality of their hardware equivalents, even highly regarded examples like Reverb 1. Do you think that convolution verbs will ever take the place of hardware units? I have some PCM91 impulses that sound really nice, but unfortunately no Lexicon at my home studio to do a fair comparison. Do you reckon you could pick out a convolves impulse against the real thing? How about in the middle of a mix?

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17th April 2004, 03:55 PM	#2
Ruairi Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 328	Tee Boy, at my studio my main reverb is Altiverb. I have no hardware reverb. When I moved to HD and my new rig I decided against any hardware boxes and I don't regret it. I use up to 4 instances of Alti and sometimes Reverb 1 (which is ok) and sometimes even Dverb or Renverb (for something deliberately crap). I have probably spent 18k since my big 50k refit last year and i have never felt the need to prioritise a hardware reverb. BTW I mix in the box and move between songs a lot so the convenience of a plug in verb suits me, there are many others here that would rather die than do without hardware reverb. I would be looking at top shelf units ala M6000/Lex 960 if I was ever to make the move. As ever YMMV, cheers, Ruairi

18th April 2004, 12:50 PM	#4
karl Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London Posts: 225	Charles. I noticed from your HDL articles that you used Lexiverb a lot. I am still on OS9, even though I bought OSX and V6 of Pro Tools, because I like this plugin so much. I do use Reverb One as well, but really like the Lexiverb. What are your preferences for plugin reverbs now you no longer have Lexiverb - and how do they compare? Will there ever be another Lexicon plugin to your knowledge?

19th April 2004, 01:13 AM	#5
tee boy Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Staffs, UK Posts: 135	Im pretty sure Eventide have a couple of TDM plugs coming out. Not exactly an answer to your question, but who knows they might be way better? Thanks for the reply Charles. I have to agree with you tbh, it seems like people spend way to much time comparing plugs to original hardware. Like you say, if it sounds hot who cares how close an emulation it is. The reason i ask this about convo reverbs, is that iv heard alot of conflicting info and i was interested to hear what someone like yourself thought. I use Voxengo's Pristine Space. I find with the impulses i have it sounds good. I also love using it for wacky sound design stuff!