Bob Ludwig-Gateway Mastering

[mac black]

I am so excited, Im going to master my album with Bob on monday, has anyone used him before ? he is the best (or one of the best) in the world as far as Im concern
Just wanted some opinions..

Also how long would it take to get ther from London ...?

Thanks

mac

[Charles Dye]

Originally posted by mac black
he is the best (or one of the best) in the world as far as Im concern

Yes he is. You'll be thrilled with his work. Not a playa in the loudness wars either thank god. He will get you a warm full sound. Nice guy too.

[stealthbalance]

[quote]Originally posted by Charles Dye
Not a playa in the loudness wars either thank god.
--------------------------------------------------------------
are you sure ??

[5down1up]

watch it carefully and let us know

[mixer]

Originally posted by Charles Dye
Yes he is. You'll be thrilled with his work. Not a playa in the loudness wars either thank god. He will get you a warm full sound. Nice guy too.

ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jazzius II]

Report back here with the details, please.
I like his sound. Often fat and warm.

[Gideon]

[quote]Originally posted by stealthbalance

Originally posted by Charles Dye
Not a playa in the loudness wars either thank god.
--------------------------------------------------------------
are you sure ??

Absolutely; just be sure to tell Bob that you want a dynamic master. He is very responsive and actually prefers to master this way. He has, of course, made extremely loud masters at the request of big shot, major label A&R type nitwits, but will not butcher your work in this way as long as you let him know what you want.
By the way, enjoy the exchange rate--I’m leaving for London on Monday and am definitely not looking forward to getting only about one Pound for every two dollars .

Have fun in Maine.

[Bob Olhsson]

Bob has been my first choice for many years. I easily learned the most from him of anybody I've ever mastered with. You're in for a rich learning experience!

[Renie]

Should be interesting!

what's the record?

[mac black]

Thanks guys, leaving this morning and I cant wait !!
The album is Deepest blue-Late september, produced & programmed by myself ...mixed by steven fitzmaurice at Astoria (Dave Gilmore's boat),that in itself was a great experience, the gear is top quality from the leads, power supply, the gear itself(neve 88R, original fairchilds and everything else you ever wanted...including ducks and swans and boats all around not to mention the amazing food.... us )

I'll let you know how it went .

mac

[Nutmeg II.]

Originally posted by mac black
...mixed by steven fitzmaurice at Astoria (Dave Gilmore's boat),that in itself was a great experience, the gear is top quality from the leads, power supply, the gear itself(neve 88R, original fairchilds and everything else you ever wanted...including ducks and swans and boats all around not to mention the amazing food.... us )...

Whoa!!!! I love that place!!!!

[FROGGY]

I am listening to last Aerosmith album mastered by Mr Bob ludwig.
I am a fan of both.
But if you want to hear mastering distortion on a full CD, that the good one to buy.
Impossible to listen to it with pleasure!!!
IT IS AWFUL.
Where are we going , if some guys like this let some CD's coming out with such amount of distortion.
If the distortion appears in the process of recording as a creative process!!! why not.
But at the mastering!!! I don't get it.
0dB FS is supposed to be the maximum. I thing they are trying to reach +4 like if they were confused in their dB's.

Is there anybody here who could tell me the purpose of such music destruction.
As we are her to talk about sound gears, sound creativity or sound quality.... what the purpose!!!!
please


help me!!!

[picksail]

The problem is competitve product marketing.

I am certain that Ludwig is only performing the way he's expected. It's not his call, but the clients. Remember that this is an industry trend-kind of like the new Members Only jacket.

P.S. This is also, one of the main reasons I joined NARAS.

[jazzius II]

Originally posted by FROGGY

Is there anybody here who could tell me the purpose of such music destruction.
As we are her to talk about sound gears, sound creativity or sound quality.... what the purpose!!!!
please


help me!!!

LOL!.....i think the problem here is the people involved got confused between getting a sound which would translate well on the average system (imagine 100,000,000 systems then imagine the average of this) and the lowest common denominator......so in one sense they did succeed, as it does indeed sound great on my (broken) laptop speakers.

I doubt BL is to blame.

Isn't there some funny story about the Aerosmith guys being able to hear the difference between monster cable and some other cable?......yeah, right....like they're not all completely deaf from 400 years of gigging.

[PlanB]

Hey Mac Black

Congratz and have fun at Bob's place.

I had the pleasure to mix a week at Dave Gilmour's Astoria too. It really is an astounding place.
We mixed an album with Jon Kelly as mixing engineer and in-house engineer Damon. He is great too, isn't he?

That place is really something.

[muziqfreek]

another vote for the Gateway crew here.... Had an album mastered by Bob's 2IC - Adam Ayan - Quality job (the phattest CD i own in both tone and apparent volume - but then im slightly biased being in the band!!!)- really nice people and an obscenely large number of gold & platinum discs hanging on the walls..plus... portland's got some awesome restaurants and some great views - shame i went in February!!!!!
hope you have fun dude...!!!!!

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by jazzius II
Isn't there some funny story about the Aerosmith guys being able to hear the difference between monster cable and some other cable?......yeah, right....like they're not all completely deaf from 400 years of gigging.

Actually people having hearing damage are MORE sensitive to distortion.

Once again, the level wars are about what the first 30 seconds of a song sounds like in a meeting when it's compared to the first 30 seconds of another without touching the volume control. The meetings determine what gos into the racks at stores and what gos on the air.

The distortion really sucks but having your CD tossed in the wastebasket during such a meeting sucks even more.

[Musiclab]

What about the second John Mayer record? Mixed and produced by Jack Joseph Puig and mastered by Bob Ludwig. And distorted. The previous John Mayer record was partially mixed by JJP and I think John Alagia. It was mastered by Scott Hull, who was Bob Ludwig's protege from masterdisk
which sounds very good. Bob Ludwig is a legend in this business, I wonder what happened. I have friends who work at Avatar where the tracks were cut
who were horrified with the way that CD sounds.

[pramrod]

Ludwig is great and all, but be sure to do some good eating while you are in Maine. First, you must try a Fried Haddock sandwich (with cheese and tartar if you like)- just fantastic. Also recommended in maine is a Lobster, some steamers, and generally all things shellfish. maine shrimp can be incredible little rock shrimps and the lobsters, well, not much better anywhere in the world. with lobsters, i've been told in maine that the smaller ones are better tasting (over 2 lbs and they are too old for eating). in the summer, you can go down to the docks and eat a lobster straight out of the ocean (they just bring the traps in to the dock, but the lobsters stay in the ocean tlll they hit the pot!). too bad it's not blueberry season in maine too- the blueberries are where it's at. and clams, yes clams, preferably fried. ENJOY- pramrod

p.s. and breath some air too- nothing does me more right than a fresh dose of maine AIR!!!

[miziq]

So what is all this equipment and high end gear worth at the end, when it sounds like...

It is getting really funny in sound. Man i miss the sound from 50,60 and 70s. How do you all feel. Dont you think this is distroying your work guys ?

[jazzius II]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson

Once again, the level wars are about what the first 30 seconds of a song sounds like in a meeting when it's compared to the first 30 seconds of another without touching the volume control. The meetings determine what gos into the racks at stores and what gos on the air.

Bob, I really don't see how you can blame it all on the A+R......it's the engineers who are turning up the big red knob, isn't it?.....what about the independent releases that don't go through these meetings?......they're just as loud.

I had a session the other day where a guy booked 3 hours.....on the phone he said he was mastering an album himself but couldn't get one song up to the same level as the others, so needed my help.

When he arrived, the stuff was so distorted and painful, i actually spent the 3 hours convincing him to drop the level on his CD by 3dB....all the reference disks he'd brought were at least 3dB quieter, so it so just a matter of carefully A/B'ing so he could hear that 3db down would still be competative......there's some confused people out there!

[toolstudio]

We have the experience that the subjectiv loudeness is more than limiting.
Equalizing the right frequencies with the right tools, will make it subjectiv louder than making all bits on with an digtal limiter.
And,... have I only the feeling that most of the limited to death masters even get smaller and less loud when it gets to the chorus ? Wow I hate that.
When we do a mastering, our guys never play the loudness game and we experienced that a very dynamic master, o.k. where somebody need to pull the level knob on their hifi a bit, is much more attractiv and least boring than the limited to death shit I hear on the radio.

Transients are a big part of the squash sound in a limiting war.
I experienced, the more you use analog gear (multitrack, console, outboard, 1/2") the less you get the squishi sound when you make it loud.


wolfgang

toolhouse studios, germany

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by jazzius II
...there's some confused people out there!

Those are just the lemmings who think the things that are screwed up about a hit are what made it a hit. If two CDs that were 10 dB softer became hits, they'd want everything 10 dB. softer. The underlying issue is the insecurity of A&R and the artists' management. If you sat in on one of those meetings, you'd be insecure too!

[jazzius II]

Bob......I know nothing about these meetings or what goes on at them.....maybe you could give an in depth description?.....

....Surely it's in these A+R's interest to know that they may be picking music purely on the basis of what's loudest....that should be important for them to know, 'cause that sure isn't what makes a hit a hit (IMHO)......have you ever tried explaining it to them?......I'm serious (not trying to be cheeky!)........why are A+R so g'damned stoopid?

The loudness issue is like having an argument.....the weaker your argument, the louder you have to shout in order to have a chance of winning the argument!......

[Geert van den Berg]

I think it's a good thing to keep educating the clients, like Jazzius did. Just be carefull to not scare them away, which shouldn't happen if they notice you are very concerned about a good product.

Maybe take a louder master to those A&R meetings but keep the real version dynamic. Offcourse you'll have to inform the client about this otherwise it's not the right way, but it might work.

I agree that the engineers are also responsible for these loudness wars.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by jazzius II
....Surely it's in these A+R's interest to know that they may be picking music purely on the basis of what's loudest

They aren't picking based on what's loudest BUT being too much softer than the others is a very real problem. It really comes down to tailoring a master for exactly what it will be used for. This requires constant awareness of and attention to what else is going on in the marketplace for the genre involved.

Meetings determine which titles will have time and money invested in them and which won't. Nobody can possibly afford to get behind everything they handle. Sales people, promo people, radio people, store managers and even reviewers ALL sort out what will get their attention in meetings. Here in the US this mess is compounded by market research meetings.

[FROGGY]

Let's say that radio needs max level on their CD's.
We all know that most off them have no ears. They just count the dollars.

So why couldn't we do a promotion CD full blast for promotion and another one for listener purposes and mass copy.
I did it sometimes whenever possible. when it was possible for me to go to the mastering in a day off....

I can the listen back later the final album which theorically has not been ****ed up.
And Radio can compare the levels with their cd.

What do you think about that??

[Bob Olhsson]

Radio actually sounds louder and punchier with lower levels.

The problem is the meeting where radio decides what to play and the focus group meetings where they refine their choices and develop the paper trail to prove they chose the "right" stuff.

[jazzius II]

But Bob, the ME's know when they're making a production master and when they're making reference copies, don't they?

You describe it as the lemming affect.....as if it's a conscious decision to copy the louder is better credo.......but IMO, appart from the engineers with good ears, the audiophiles and a few others, the vast majority of people, and that includes the list you mentioned, are totally unaware that there is even a problem in terms music being damaged by over-limiting/clipping.......if something has that "radio" sound at one of these focus groups, that's just what people expect......of course we know that if something sounds like the radio before it is on the radio, then it'll sound f%cked-up when it does get on air......but do most people hear this?......i don't think so.....not consciously, anyway......what i'm trying to say is, although we know there is a big problem, 99.9% of people are totally oblivious to it

I just picked up the latest Foo Fighters and QOTSA albums yesterday (yeah yeah, i know i'm a bit late)......what's incredible is how small they sound......when you take away their trump card of relative loudness (i.e., just play them to listen to for enjoyment), they're so small-assed and sorry sounding......like a wet puppy that's been sitting out in the rain for 5 hours! What's hilarious is they're supposed to be rock music, but you can't even turn them up loud, 'cause of the thickness of sound.

[DavidC]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Radio actually sounds louder and punchier with lower levels.

The problem is the meeting where radio decides what to play and the focus group meetings where they refine their choices and develop the paper trail to prove they chose the "right" stuff.

Bob,

It seems the obvious solution to this, would be for them to use a system that simulated radio in these meetings (i.e. playing through the radio compressors). If they were hearing what the songs would sound like on the radio, they would probably prefer the least squashed stuff.

Best Regards

David C